Waterproof stock Android device?

[fuzzybabybunny]

I think I'm close to being done with Samsung and especially with carrier-branded phones.

Software updates are functionally non-existent. My S5 has daily lag issues. In the meantime my old 2013 Nexus 7 on Marshmallow runs so, SO much better. It's literally the best tablet I've ever owned.

I've learned from killing phones in the past that waterproofness goes a long way for my active lifestyle. My old S4 had a GPS chip that stopped working probably due to water ingress. It didn't kill the entire phone, but it made it useless for navigation, so I had to scrap it.

My TMO S5 chugs along nicely, having been used in conditions that would normally kill other phones, but the lack of software updates kills it for me.

So... any stock Android phones that are not tied to any carriers that:

- are waterproof
- have a ~5" screen
- get Android updates very, very quickly and don't have to undergo approvals by the phone manufacturer? (Motorola actually seems a bit slow on updates).
- good camera
- at least 64GB of ROM.

 

[shortylickens]

Supposedly the new Sony's will be as close to stock as possible. And you can uninstall their proprietary apps.

 

[LPCTech]

Motorola isnt slow on updates in my experience. But just my anecdotal experience so I dunno.

I bought my girlfriend a Moto G 2015 in September and its waterproof to 3' for 30 min.
Its very close to stock Android. 5.2" screen. It has a microSD slot. It has 2GB ram. But its base storage is only 16GB. She received an over the air update for marshmallow shortly after getting the phone. Its working perfectly, she uses it constantly lol.

So basically the only requirement of yours it does not meet is the 64GB rom. But because of the features of marshmallow perhaps that wouldn't be that much of an issue?

It cost 220$ when I bought it.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Supposedly the new Sony's will be as close to stock as possible. And you can uninstall their proprietary apps.

The Sony Xperia X Performance looks promising and is the only one of the new Sonys with waterproofing.

Would you happen to know how fast Sony phones get Android updates? And more importantly perhaps, how long do they continue to get updates?

Motorola seems to update their Android even on pretty old phones.

 

[tsupersonic]

Waterproof or water resistant? They're different...

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Motorola isnt slow on updates in my experience. But just my anecdotal experience so I dunno.

I bought my girlfriend a Moto G 2015 in September and its waterproof to 3' for 30 min.
Its very close to stock Android. 5.2" screen. It has a microSD slot. It has 2GB ram. But its base storage is only 16GB. She received an over the air update for marshmallow shortly after getting the phone. Its working perfectly, she uses it constantly lol.

So basically the only requirement of yours it does not meet is the 64GB rom. But because of the features of marshmallow perhaps that wouldn't be that much of an issue?

It cost 220$ when I bought it.

Oh wow, that's pretty nice. I did a bit of research with Marshmallow and it seems Motorola got the Marshmallow update about two months after it was released on Nexus devices, which I guess is pretty good.

The ROM bit doesn't worry me too much. It's definitely a pain in the ass (my S5 has 16GB ROM and it sucks, especially since Android likes to create 2GB thumbnail files on the ROM).

My main worry is RAM. 2GB is low and it's one of the big reasons why my S5 sucks. Well, that and Touchwiz using a lot of RAM.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Waterproof or water resistant? They're different...

Waterproof. It'll be submerged. I won't ever submerge it, but having a phone that's submergable gives a lot more wiggle room for surviving all the different possible encounters with water.

 

[gregulator]

Ha, I had the exact same requirements (other than the space requirement) and ended up with an S6 active. If you are on ATT it is worth looking at. I don't love Samsung either, but it was the best compromise I could find. Moto G as mentioned above was another option, but the S6 camera was better and that was the most critical thing for me. The Sony line is interesting but if you read around, it seems like there can be some issues with the camera being slow to load, or crash, or take a while to focus and shoot. It is also questionably waterproof after they backtracked on their statements about it. But if you can grab one cheap, maybe worth a look.

Also, on the horizon there is a CAT branded phone that looks interesting. Probably priced at a premium though.

I figure buying something used on swappa gives me a little more wiggle room if I hate the device or break it. I refuse to buy bleeding edge at high prices.

Let us know what you end up with!

 

[LPCTech]

Also the moto x pure is stock android and has the 64GB storage you want, has 5.7" screen. Is the same but slightly better than the moto G 2015(not stock android) in most ways and is $400. Has 21MP camera and 3GB ram.

 

[tsupersonic]

Also the moto x pure is stock android and has the 64GB storage you want, has 5.7" screen. Is the same but slightly better than the moto G 2015(not stock android) in most ways and is $400. Has 21MP camera and 3GB ram.

How is the Moto G 2015 not stock Android but the Moto X Pure is? That makes no sense. The Moto G 2015 is just as "stock" as the X Pure is, that is to say they have the same OOTB customizations.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

How is the Moto G 2015 not stock Android but the Moto X Pure is? That makes no sense. The Moto G 2015 is just as "stock" as the X Pure is, that is to say they have the same OOTB customizations.

Do both or either devices get Android updates as soon as Google releases it then?

 

[dawheat]

Non-carrier Moto phones have a good history of updates, though as far as I know they don't offer waterproofing (just resistance) and even their flagship cameras are more like late-2014 class leading than even 2015 leading, much less 2016 (good in light, not great in low light unless you're super steady).

Sony probably has an update history worse than Samsung and their long term longevity is a big question mark.

Nothing honestly jumps out as a clear winner for you - the S6 Active can be had for relatively cheap on swappa but updates will be poor but probably is the best hardware match for you.

 

[paperwastage]

Do both or either devices get Android updates as soon as Google releases it then?

neither do

just to make it clear, Google only releases updates for their nexus line.

for all other phones, the manufacturer takes google's changes and packages an update... could be fast, could be slow

eg: Priv got monthly security updates quick (Feb 1st for feb update)
http://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_...bruary_security_update_to_priv-news-16373.php

samsung took a month to roll out Feb update
http://www.technobuffalo.com/2016/02/28/samsungs-android-flagships-get-february-security-update/

motorola took some time too
http://forums.androidcentral.com/mo...y-2016-rolling-out-moto-x-pure-edition-2.html

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Non-carrier Moto phones have a good history of updates, though as far as I know they don't offer waterproofing (just resistance) and even their flagship cameras are more like late-2014 class leading than even 2015 leading, much less 2016 (good in light, not great in low light unless you're super steady).

Sony probably has an update history worse than Samsung and their long term longevity is a big question mark.

Nothing honestly jumps out as a clear winner for you - the S6 Active can be had for relatively cheap on swappa but updates will be poor but probably is the best hardware match for you.

Hmmm... Well, in the absence of timely official updates, do the unofficial community updates (AOSP, Cyanogen, etc) work just as well, considering both Moto and Sony phones use stock Android anyway?

My S5, for example, can't depend on community updates. I can install Marshmallow on it now, but I lose the fingerprint reader, not to mention the excellent Samsung camera app. The phone simply isn't designed to work 100% on stock Android... but it seems Sony and Moto phones are? In which case.... why even wait for the official Sony or Moto update when the community will continue to support it?

Would the community be able to continue to roll out fully functional Android updates for the Xperias or Motos even after Moto or Sony have discontinued official updates on their end?

 

[paperwastage]

Hmmm... Well, in the absence of timely official updates, do the unofficial community updates (AOSP, Cyanogen, etc) work just as well, considering both Moto and Sony phones use stock Android anyway?

My S5, for example, can't depend on community updates. I can install Marshmallow on it now, but I lose the fingerprint reader, not to mention the excellent Samsung camera app. The phone simply isn't designed to work 100% on stock Android... but it seems Sony and Moto phones are? In which case.... why even wait for the official Sony or Moto update when the community will continue to support it?

Would the community be able to continue to roll out fully functional Android updates for the Xperias or Motos even after Moto or Sony have discontinued official updates on their end?

only if you can unlock your phone's bootloader (not on verizon), or have some exploit to do this...

community updates can sometimes be unstable (or as you mention, some features not working)... you might need to trip Knox, and can't use work-related apps like GOOD for enterprise

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

only if you can unlock your phone's bootloader (not on verizon), or have some exploit to do this...

community updates can sometimes be unstable (or as you mention, some features not working)... you might need to trip Knox, and can't use work-related apps like GOOD for enterprise

Well, yeah. I won't ever get a phone with a locked bootloader. That's basically a death sentence for the device.

I guess the idea that Moto and Sony using completely stock Android makes me feel like they are essentially Nexus devices, only instead of getting the update push from Google, you get it from Sony or Moto. All they do is add a bit of their own bloatware and push it out? Or do they add essential features, like Samsung does with their fingerprint reader capabilities?

 

[paperwastage]

Well, yeah. I won't ever get a phone with a locked bootloader. That's basically a death sentence for the device.

I guess the idea that Moto and Sony using completely stock Android makes me feel like they are essentially Nexus devices, only instead of getting the update push from Google, you get it from Sony or Moto. All they do is add a bit of their own bloatware and push it out? Or do they add essential features, like Samsung does with their fingerprint reader capabilities?

they do add useful features.. but typically light, and motorola seems to be putting "value-added" stuff as a standalone app (can be updated via google play store), fewer hooks directly into AOSP android (= more "stock" and easier to update)

http://www.androidcentral.com/motorola-puts-motorola-assist-google-play-adds-autoreply-feature

Motorola today added Motorola Assist to its growing stable of software features that have moved from the system level of its smartphones into Google Play.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

they do add useful features.. but typically light, and motorola seems to be putting "value-added" stuff as a standalone app (can be updated via google play store), fewer hooks directly into AOSP android (= more "stock" and easier to update)

http://www.androidcentral.com/motorola-puts-motorola-assist-google-play-adds-autoreply-feature

Ah, I see. I really really really like the direction they're going with this loose-coupling. I don't suppose Sony, LG, XiaoMi, etc does the same thing?

 

[paperwastage]

Ah, I see. I really really really like the direction they're going with this loose-coupling. I don't suppose Sony, LG, XiaoMi, etc does the same thing?

XiaoMi - nope... think it still looks like an iOS clone still?

Sony - they still do some (light) changes to the skin/UI, and taking some time to update their (flagship) phones... unlocking bootloader has some negative sideeffects too, though they've been pretty good for custom dev-support

(this article is old, but the pros/cons are still valid)
http://www.andromods.com/root-unlock/sony-xperia-z-zl-unlocking-bootloader-pros-cons.html

LG, don't know

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

XiaoMi - nope... think it still looks like an iOS clone still?

Sony - they still do some (light) changes to the skin/UI, and taking some time to update their (flagship) phones... unlocking bootloader has some negative sideeffects too, though they've been pretty good for custom dev-support

(this article is old, but the pros/cons are still valid)
http://www.andromods.com/root-unlock/sony-xperia-z-zl-unlocking-bootloader-pros-cons.html

LG, don't know

Whoa. Unlocking Sony seems to have some *really* detrimental effects.

Apparently there are a set of DRM keys that are needed to access lots of features, including a lot of features with their camera and camera sensor. Once the bootloader gets unlocked the DRM keys are lost forever and so are all these features...

I also read that Sony restricts third party cameras to only being able to use 8 MP of their sensor's normal resolution (ex. 23 MP).

Basically their custom sensor is awesome, but it naturally utilizes a lot of Sony-only features that get locked down via a DRM scheme. The DRM key is permanently wiped out when you unlock the bootloader, which is exactly what you would need to do in order to update Android once Sony stops releasing official updates for the device.

So if Sony stops making updates, and you unlock the bootloader so you can do an update yourself, you're permanently removing a lot of camera functionality.

 

[paperwastage]

Whoa. Unlocking Sony seems to have some *really* detrimental effects.

Apparently there are a set of DRM keys that are needed to access lots of features, including a lot of features with their camera and camera sensor. Once the bootloader gets unlocked the DRM keys are lost forever and so are all these features...

I also read that Sony restricts third party cameras to only being able to use 8 MP of their sensor's normal resolution (ex. 23 MP).

Basically their custom sensor is awesome, but it naturally utilizes a lot of Sony-only features that get locked down via a DRM scheme. The DRM key is permanently wiped out when you unlock the bootloader, which is exactly what you would need to do in order to update Android once Sony stops releasing official updates for the device.

So if Sony stops making updates, and you unlock the bootloader so you can do an update yourself, you're permanently removing a lot of camera functionality.

there's a workaround for Z5 (you can restore [some?] DRM/camera algorithms)

http://androidcommunity.com/workaro...-z5-units-with-unlocked-bootloaders-20160121/

I also read that Sony restricts third party cameras to only being able to use 8 MP of their sensor's normal resolution (ex. 23 MP).

intelliAUTO uses 8mpix instead of 23mpix.. tihnk you can still choose 23mpix in manual mode?



a lot of custom ROMs (on other devices) don't have full camera functionality either (though other devices "regain" the functionality when you flash the stock ROM.... for the sony one, you permanently lose it unless someone finds a workaround)

the sony "Z" line is cancelled... need to see what happens on the new sony "X" line

 

[s44]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/48g1br/galaxy_s5_fingerprint_sensor_supported_in_cm13/

 

[LPCTech]

How is the Moto G 2015 not stock Android but the Moto X Pure is? That makes no sense. The Moto G 2015 is just as "stock" as the X Pure is, that is to say they have the same OOTB customizations.

I was under the impression that all moto phones have a "moto" skin like touchwiz. While the "Pure" does not, and thats the reason its called pure.

But after a quick check I've discovered Im wrong and both phones have what is described as "very close to stock android".

So you are right.

I have only seen the Moto G 2015, Ive never seen a Moto X Pure in person.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/48g1br/galaxy_s5_fingerprint_sensor_supported_in_cm13/

Well, I installed Marshmallow CM13 on my S5 just now and it flies compared to the Samsung TouchWiz Lollipop crap.

Fingerprint works just fine.

HDR is real-time AND I can do exposure compensation in HDR mode. The stock Samsung camera can't, which was retarded.

The 4K video mode seems to be preserved, but not the 120fps and 60fps modes.

Running the exact same apps, Marshmallow always has more free RAM than Lollipop and doesn't lag and get locked as the kswapd0 frantically does its thing.

When I was on Lollipop the only way I could get non-laggy performance was use Titanium Backup to freeze a ton of apps and uninstall Facebook and Messenger and use TinFoil for Facebook instead.

This is only after an hour of usage though. I'll see how Marshmallow does with longer term usage. But currently it seems to have breathed new life into this S5.... thanks!

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

So.... I'm extremely impressed with Marshmallow.

I've been throwing crap at this phone all day. Opening app after app, using them, switching between them, and doing absolutely nothing to close them afterwards.

Everything stays buttery smooth and there is absolutely no indication of lag.

This is stuff that would have *killed* my S5 when it was on the official TMobile / Samsung Lollipop, even with all the Samsung bloatware frozen with Titanium Backup.