watercooling pc project

[QueBert]

*updated all parts 2/2/08*

I was way off on what I thought I needed, thanks to aigomorla & DerwenArtos12 for setting me straight. Anyone see problems with my updated parts list please chime in, not ordering for a bit still but want to have all the feedback possible before hand.

Case - Silverstone Tj07

Swiftech MCP655 w/ Speed Control and 3/8" Conversion Kit

D-Tek CPU block

Ek NB4 Intel Northbridge Chipset Block

Swiftech MCR220 - For bottom of case where PSU will be no room for triple down there with a PSU.

Swiftech MCR320 - for top of case

EK nVidia GeForce 8800 GT Liquid Cooling Block Nickel Plated

EK Waterblocks - EK-DDC X-RES 140 - even though this has a top I can run it just as a res right?

Scythe Ultra Kaze 120 x 38mm Fan - 1000 RPM - x5


look pretty good??

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: QueBert
Decided on the Silverstone TJ07 case, I know what I've read about water but never actually attempted working with it. Read the newbie guide here and have a good basic understanding. Have been looking at parts and came up with these, any dudes in the know who want to add anything - nothing has been ordered yet. My end goal is to create a stylish setup, much like the Murderbox. I understand with that look comes a loss of cooling potential but I'm willing to add a few degrees in order for the look.

Danger Den DD12V-D5 Variable Speed Pump - even not knowing much this seems to be the top pump out there. Probably overkill for my needs but if I'm running

Feser One Non Conductive Cooling Fluid - UV Acid Green
- not sure about this brand, also not sure how different "Acid Green" would be from normal Green. looks lighter in color in the pictures.

Danger Den Black Ice Xtreme II Dual 120mm Radiator 2 of these 1 on top 1 on bottom.

undecided which CPU block to get, suggestions here. running a e6550 right now, might upgrade to a quad core not sure yet. Also not sure which video card I'll end up with either. Danger Dan has a sweet block for 880GTX cards, will they'll work with the 8800gt? (what I'll probably get) Also will use the new DFI Lanparty if that makes any difference for anything I should/shouldn't get.

am I close to what I want? like I said I'm trying to clone a Murderbox without the huge price tag.

There are lot better layouts then the murderbox that looks cleaner and perform better.

How much is your budget?

 

[QueBert]

look cleaner?? I don't see any wires and I love the look of the t connectors so everything looks straight. Care to link to a picture of what you're talking about? We obviously have a different opinion of what looks clean

my budget is around $400'ish for the WC part of the build.

 

[aigomorla]

Heres an awesome dual loop. The build isnt finished picture wise. But i think you get the idea.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...164305&highlight=TJ-07

Both the systems displayed would spank the murderbox in performance.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...143746&highlight=TJ-07

Some more Notice how ALL of them have a 120x3 radiator. Ahem.. something the murder box doesnt. :T

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...149265&highlight=TJ-07

Another one This is how the murderbox should of been setup. Then i wouldnt talk so much crap about it at its price.

oh its still cheaper then the murderbox btw if you do it yourself.


I think you get the idea...

 

[QueBert]

ok, I liked the ones you linked to alot, and while I won't argue they'll cool better, the look just isn't there for me. I don't want to spend 7k on a Murderbox, but if I could make something similar for much less I probably will. I won't argue the price of a Murderbox is disgusting, but appearance wise I haven't seen anything that's as visually stimulating to my eyes. Appearance is a personal preference though.*shrug* I would never buy a pre assembled watercooled pc. Weather I end up spending $400 or $1,200 I'm defintiely going to do it myself.

I'm one of the idiots who goes for style over function lol.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: QueBert
ok, I liked the ones you linked to alot, and while I won't argue they'll cool better, the look just isn't there for me. I don't want to spend 7k on a Murderbox, but if I could make something similar for much less I probably will. I won't argue the price of a Murderbox is disgusting, but appearance wise I haven't seen anything that's as visually stimulating to my eyes. Appearance is a personal preference though.*shrug* I would never buy a pre assembled watercooled pc. Weather I end up spending $400 or $1,200 I'm defintiely going to do it myself.

I'm one of the idiots who goes for style over function lol.

We forgive you Q. The main reason the murderbox's sell for $7K is the ammount of labor that goes into making it look that good. I've done full customs from the chassis up before and I've logged more than 400 work hours on them. Be prepared for something thats going to take you some serious time. Not having to plan, design then build a chassis is obviously going to save you a big chunk of that time but, you're going to have to still do the plan and design phases for modifying a chassis to meet the specs you want. Most of those that aigmora linked to are function over form so they didn't spend 80 hours and $150 just modifying the case like you're probably going to have to in order to get it looking like the murderbox. I'm not saying it's not possible, in fact the exact oposite, it's 100% possible it's just going to take the time and money. The less time you want to spend the more money you're going to have to spend and visa-versa.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: QueBert
ok, I liked the ones you linked to alot, and while I won't argue they'll cool better, the look just isn't there for me. I don't want to spend 7k on a Murderbox, but if I could make something similar for much less I probably will. I won't argue the price of a Murderbox is disgusting, but appearance wise I haven't seen anything that's as visually stimulating to my eyes. Appearance is a personal preference though.*shrug* I would never buy a pre assembled watercooled pc. Weather I end up spending $400 or $1,200 I'm defintiely going to do it myself.

I'm one of the idiots who goes for style over function lol.

You see thats the point.

The parts he used expecially the radiator is not worth it.

He used a PA120.2 as the main cooling radiator. Thats not my recomendation. If your tapping into a limited budget you step up to a MCR320 which has greater cooling Not a PA120.2.

However i flamed that thread saying he should of used a PA120.3 which is only 15-20 dollars more expensive @ 129-139.

He also has too many 90 degree bends. Each 90 degree bend - to around 1 meter of extra tubing.

:\ This is cathar's messurement.



If you want the murder box setup, i'll spit the parts to you. But i dont recomend it. As i said the radiator alone is 109 -119 on his setup. The MCR320 is only a meesly 54 dollars.

 

[QueBert]

to DerwenArtos12, I understand this is going to be a long process, I don't know how many hours to expect to spend, but pulling the case apart and painting the inside all black alone will take me a good chunk of time. Don't know what to expect for a total on hours, but it will be A LOT I'm sure. I'm ready I just want to find all the parts I need and plan it out as well as I can.

to aigomorla, I don't want to use the exact parts he uses, I just want to go for a similar look. I mostly like the look of the bends, as far as what parts to uses, I want to use whatever looks good and works well. I don't want to have stuff that looks like an unpolished hunk of metal that I have to end up painting. You say he has too many 90 degree bends, but I don't think I could have that straight tube look any other way? Listening to you though I'm going to go with triple radiators instead of dual. Any parts you want to suggest I'm all ears

Price isn't so much as issue for me, I'm willing to invest extra $$$ to get a good setup. If you want to give me a parts list, even if it's like $600 I'd consider it, this box will last me for a long time, and even if I spend way more than I want to on it, it'll still be much cheaper than any custom built box.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: QueBert
to DerwenArtos12, I understand this is going to be a long process, I don't know how many hours to expect to spend, but pulling the case apart and painting the inside all black alone will take me a good chunk of time. Don't know what to expect for a total on hours, but it will be A LOT I'm sure. I'm ready I just want to find all the parts I need and plan it out as well as I can.

to aigomorla, I don't want to use the exact parts he uses, I just want to go for a similar look. I mostly like the look of the bends, as far as what parts to uses, I want to use whatever looks good and works well. I don't want to have stuff that looks like an unpolished hunk of metal that I have to end up painting. You say he has too many 90 degree bends, but I don't think I could have that straight tube look any other way? Listening to you though I'm going to go with triple radiators instead of dual. Any parts you want to suggest I'm all ears

Price isn't so much as issue for me, I'm willing to invest extra $$$ to get a good setup. If you want to give me a parts list, even if it's like $600 I'd consider it, this box will last me for a long time, and even if I spend way more than I want to on it, it'll still be much cheaper than any custom built box.

okey looks like you got your head on straight about this project.

if you want the bends, i recomend you getting some custom 90's from martin. He makes them and charges 9 dollars each. They are truely worth it. The restriction on them is almost non existant and they give a full 90 degree bend.

pm me for his email as i dont want to spam it on the forum.

Basically here is what you would need for it to look clean and nice. Do you want the reservoir off to the side like the others? or would you prefer it hidden or non exsistant even? we can use a Y instead or a T.

Radiator: MCR320
Cpu block: D-tek fusion
Pump: Petratech DDC-3.2 /w top
Gpu: what gpu you have and how many?
NB: do you want nb cooling?

tubing should be 7/16ID masterkleer. Barbs all G1/4 fitting.

that should be the start of your foundation.

 

[QueBert]

sweet I'll PM you man this information is wonderful, with my limited knowledge and typical buy something more expensive without knowing would have ended in disaster.

as for my GPU right now I have a 8600gt, but I'll be going to either an 8800gt or ATi's latest not too sure, the MB I want (DFI LANparty) supports Crossfire, but I can't find an entire black or white PCB ATI card so I'm leaning towards 8880gt. Dangerden has a sweet looking block, I want one that covers the entire card not just the GPU. NB cooling would be nice but it's not something I feel I gotta have.

I'll google the parts you recommended and create some bookmarks this is going to be a tad bit more complex and time consuming than when I sleeved my PSU years ago. So I need to be organized and ready lol.

about the reservoir I don't know really, I was looking at Radiators with the res built in, ones that slip in a 5 1/2 drive bay and ones that mounted to the bottom of the case. I need to research if there are benefits for each. My main overall thing is a really clean look with as few wires & cables exposed as possible. I know I'm never going to be able to create anything as sweet as Half Life 2 case but something I can still look at and go "wow I did this myself..."

your advice is helping me loads I appreciate it man.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: QueBert
sweet I'll PM you man this information is wonderful, with my limited knowledge and typical buy something more expensive without knowing would have ended in disaster.

as for my GPU right now I have a 8600gt, but I'll be going to either an 8800gt or ATi's latest not too sure, the MB I want (DFI LANparty) supports Crossfire, but I can't find an entire black or white PCB ATI card so I'm leaning towards 8880gt. Dangerden has a sweet looking block, I want one that covers the entire card not just the GPU. NB cooling would be nice but it's not something I feel I gotta have.

I'll google the parts you recommended and create some bookmarks this is going to be a tad bit more complex and time consuming than when I sleeved my PSU years ago. So I need to be organized and ready lol.

about the reservoir I don't know really, I was looking at Radiators with the res built in, ones that slip in a 5 1/2 drive bay and ones that mounted to the bottom of the case. I need to research if there are benefits for each. My main overall thing is a really clean look with as few wires & cables exposed as possible. I know I'm never going to be able to create anything as sweet as Half Life 2 case but something I can still look at and go "wow I did this myself..."

your advice is helping me loads I appreciate it man.

blah that is a complete custom job. LOL... the case doesnt even look like the original anymore.


Anyhow, the Bay reservoirs arent that great minus the new xspc bay res. They make slooshing noises if its not high enough, and can bleed fouly because of that.

I think you should add the res next to the mobo like the other design. It would make it look sharp, and have the bottom feed downward to the second bay where your pump is.

Cable management is where its going to be tricky. Remember on the TJ-07 the standoff's will allow enough clearance to drag the cable behind the mobo tray. Just make sure you messure exactly where they need to be.

I wish i had my pictures of my old TJ-07. That looked sharp but i sold it. Maybe i'll build another one if i get bored. Im sure i can easily give the murderbox a run for its money.

Heres some of my works:

CM690:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0862.jpg

My Main Rig:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0721.jpg

My NAS and Backup which my brother stole:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0399.jpg

computer hardware all underwent an evoltion. But most of the water eq is kept the same. Well, some blocks, and the NAS went a major reconstrution because i needed 3.6ghz on her.


I could do a better job on the cable management. But i got lazy. The CM690 looks cleaner if you look at it directly, your looking from a slightly upward angle so you see all the cables clearly.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: QueBert
sweet I'll PM you man this information is wonderful, with my limited knowledge and typical buy something more expensive without knowing would have ended in disaster.

as for my GPU right now I have a 8600gt, but I'll be going to either an 8800gt or ATi's latest not too sure, the MB I want (DFI LANparty) supports Crossfire, but I can't find an entire black or white PCB ATI card so I'm leaning towards 8880gt. Dangerden has a sweet looking block, I want one that covers the entire card not just the GPU. NB cooling would be nice but it's not something I feel I gotta have.

I'll google the parts you recommended and create some bookmarks this is going to be a tad bit more complex and time consuming than when I sleeved my PSU years ago. So I need to be organized and ready lol.

about the reservoir I don't know really, I was looking at Radiators with the res built in, ones that slip in a 5 1/2 drive bay and ones that mounted to the bottom of the case. I need to research if there are benefits for each. My main overall thing is a really clean look with as few wires & cables exposed as possible. I know I'm never going to be able to create anything as sweet as Half Life 2 case but something I can still look at and go "wow I did this myself..."

your advice is helping me loads I appreciate it man.

blech! I swear the only reason he did any watercooling was so he could have green fluid in that case.

 

[QueBert]

decided on the d-tek GPU block, the full card one is too expensive and like DerwenArtos12 said not really good because it limits you to one card. Found this interesting looking top/res on jab-tech any idea if this is worthy? I know a great one's already been recommended multiple times, but this top + res in one might be a worthy top + will handle my res needs too in one. Plus it might look cool filled up with UV green coolant *shrug*

EK-DDC X-RES 100


also looking at the case I ordered (Silverstone Tj07) there's no way I can get a triple 120 rad at the bottom with a PSU there. Would a single triple 120 at top be suffice?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: QueBert
decided on the d-tek GPU block, the full card one is too expensive and like DerwenArtos12 said not really good because it limits you to one card. Found this interesting looking top/res on jab-tech any idea if this is worthy? I know a great one's already been recommended multiple times, but this top + res in one might be a worthy top + will handle my res needs too in one. Plus it might look cool filled up with UV green coolant *shrug*

EK-DDC X-RES 100


also looking at the case I ordered (Silverstone Tj07) there's no way I can get a triple 120 rad at the bottom with a PSU there. Would a single triple 120 at top be suffice?

nooo if you bought that gpu block call john directly at jab-tech and ask him to replace it with a MCW60.

the MCW60 has the lowest pressure drop out of all the gpu blocks.

The D-tek has one of the highest. :X


Also the EK-Xres is nice. However you need a vortex stop at the bottom or you'll system will cause major whirlpools and be a PITA bleeding.

Heres some pictures for your pleasure. :]

*yeah i know im a watercooling whore. Also very addicted in buying quality parts for watercooling*

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0830.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0831.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0833.jpg

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

Originally posted by: QueBert
decided on the d-tek GPU block, the full card one is too expensive and like DerwenArtos12 said not really good because it limits you to one card. Found this interesting looking top/res on jab-tech any idea if this is worthy? I know a great one's already been recommended multiple times, but this top + res in one might be a worthy top + will handle my res needs too in one. Plus it might look cool filled up with UV green coolant *shrug*

EK-DDC X-RES 100


also looking at the case I ordered (Silverstone Tj07) there's no way I can get a triple 120 rad at the bottom with a PSU there. Would a single triple 120 at top be suffice?

nooo if you bought that gpu block call john directly at jab-tech and ask him to replace it with a MCW60.

the MCW60 has the lowest pressure drop out of all the gpu blocks.

The D-tek has one of the highest. :X


Also the EK-Xres is nice. However you need a vortex stop at the bottom or you'll system will cause major whirlpools and be a PITA bleeding.

Heres some pictures for your pleasure. :]

*yeah i know im a watercooling whore. Also very addicted in buying quality parts for watercooling*

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0830.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0831.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0833.jpg

How about you just send me what you're not using so I can use it with my new chiller I'm building. It would be REALLY easy to convert it from an air chiller to a water chiller.

Do we have any actual numbers to compare the Xres to the Micro-res for flow? I know the micro-res has a better turbulence dampning system, thats a given but, what about flow and water exchange, I have a feeling it does a bad job of actually re-circulating the inlet fluid with the stored fluid. I don't really know if that matters on these where as it does on cars.

 

[QueBert]

watercooling whore? lol, I just think you have a vast wealth of knowledge man I haven't ordered anything 'cept the case yet. That case set me back, unfortunately I'm going to have to buy parts in small groups so it'll probably be another 2-3 months before I have everything, maybe a bit longer. So the D-Tek GPU is that bad huh? I'll go with the MCW60, the D-Tek one looks perfect appearance wise, didn't know anything about it's lack of performance, oh well That Xres looks way bigger in your pics than the ones on jab-tech (good thing) I got a much better idea of how big it actually is. It would probably look sick in my case mounted where it can be seen thru the window. I will make sure to get a vortex stop to go with it.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12

How about you just send me what you're not using so I can use it with my new chiller I'm building. It would be REALLY easy to convert it from an air chiller to a water chiller.

Do we have any actual numbers to compare the Xres to the Micro-res for flow? I know the micro-res has a better turbulence dampning system, thats a given but, what about flow and water exchange, I have a feeling it does a bad job of actually re-circulating the inlet fluid with the stored fluid. I don't really know if that matters on these where as it does on cars.

lol... normally i would.

however martin is getting the xres and some of my other eq for his testing on my chiller.

I have probably around close to 1000 dollars in unused watercooling parts sitting in my box. I cant sell any of it because im worried i may actually use it one day.

Even my crappy blocks like the apogee regular and MP-05


Also on the ek res, the number usually represents the height. The res i should you was a 150. Not the 100.

Ek res/ you want them to be tall or once again it vortex. Im actually thinkn of replacing the top with a 250 version.

 

[DerwenArtos12]

If I'm not mistaken it looks like there's a fill port at the top. If it's threaded proper what would keep you from using that as your return inlet and just plugging the standard return inlet. Should solve the vortex issue it would keep all the fluid in circulation, it would just have to completely full or the fluid might foam. Actually, could use the standard return inlet as your fill port and lay the whole thing on it's side and just fill it up. And no, you don't need to point out that I'm crazy, I've done a good job of that on my own.

 

[QueBert]

ok, now what's the difference between the 100/150 - besides size? I tend to assume bigger = better. But it's got to be more complex when it comes to water then lets say a heatsink. because so many parts directly into a WC just having a huge res isn't going to really do much if the rest sucks. I am a fan of large things so maybe I should look into something larger than the 100, as long as it won't hurt performance I'm probably interested in the biggest model

*went and checked out other models*

so any model can be used with a top right? n00b question, but the 400 I looked at is huuuuge, so I don't know. holds 500ml that's like 16oz's. Is there any possible reason for somebody building a setup like mine to even think about a model this big? Price doesn't seem bad, 50 bucks. The 140 looks to be decent sized. Hummm Air cooling is so simple to figure out learning Water is like learning a new langauge, and everytime I think I know a new word you come and tell me something that makes me go back to study. No offense but I really don't want to end up like you with a huge box of pumps and blocks I'm not using. Too expensive of a hobby for me

 

[DerwenArtos12]

Originally posted by: QueBert
ok, now what's the difference between the 100/150 - besides size? I tend to assume bigger = better. But it's got to be more complex when it comes to water then lets say a heatsink. because so many parts directly into a WC just having a huge res isn't going to really do much if the rest sucks. I am a fan of large things so maybe I should look into something larger than the 100, as long as it won't hurt performance I'm probably interested in the biggest model

*went and checked out other models*

so any model can be used with a top right? n00b question, but the 400 I looked at is huuuuge, so I don't know. holds 500ml that's like 16oz's. Is there any possible reason for somebody building a setup like mine to even think about a model this big? Price doesn't seem bad, 50 bucks. The 140 looks to be decent sized. Hummm Air cooling is so simple to figure out learning Water is like learning a new langauge, and everytime I think I know a new word you come and tell me something that makes me go back to study. No offense but I really don't want to end up like you with a huge box of pumps and blocks I'm not using. Too expensive of a hobby for me

I second the part about it being too expensive a hobby. I used up all my play money for this year on a car last year so I'm lucky to be getting to do my air conditioning project.

 

[QueBert]

fun hobbies cost money, unless you fly kites or something - and I bet the hardcore kite flyers even manage to spend a ton of cash on kites and mods for them. I just accept this project will cost me a ton, I don't plan to upgrade/add/change anything in it once I get it up. I'll be fine just making sure it doesn't leak and flushing the liquid out every 6 months. Will definitely be more long term work than the air cooling I'm use to.

All this work and money so basically I can OC a bit more and be able to look in a window and see UV green looking sludge in tubes and go "ohhhhh pretty!"

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: QueBert
ok, now what's the difference between the 100/150 - besides size? I tend to assume bigger = better. But it's got to be more complex when it comes to water then lets say a heatsink. because so many parts directly into a WC just having a huge res isn't going to really do much if the rest sucks. I am a fan of large things so maybe I should look into something larger than the 100, as long as it won't hurt performance I'm probably interested in the biggest model

*went and checked out other models*

so any model can be used with a top right? n00b question, but the 400 I looked at is huuuuge, so I don't know. holds 500ml that's like 16oz's. Is there any possible reason for somebody building a setup like mine to even think about a model this big? Price doesn't seem bad, 50 bucks. The 140 looks to be decent sized. Hummm Air cooling is so simple to figure out learning Water is like learning a new langauge, and everytime I think I know a new word you come and tell me something that makes me go back to study. No offense but I really don't want to end up like you with a huge box of pumps and blocks I'm not using. Too expensive of a hobby for me

lol bling.

i have a 250 on cpu in my main rig, and a 150 on the gpu side.


also phsyics states, the more volumn of water you have, the more energy its required to heat it up.

and also cool it down.

But since liquid starts at room temp when your comp is off, how long it stays there is a matter of radaitor, and water volumn.

Also another reason why people tell you in salt water tanks, small = harder.

 

[QueBert]

I think I'll go with the 250 the 400 seems almost too big, on the EK res's that have the barb at the top can you just replace that with a screw is it it vital for the performance? I noticed half of them the top has a screw and the others another barb.

You have 2 in the same system? Re-read what you said and not sure if you were saying 2 in the same or just have 2. Got any pics of them in a system? I'm curious what they look like mounted in a box. Glad I don't have money to order none of this right, gives me more time to research and learn instead of impulse buy.

What you say about water volume makes sense, but let me ask you this. What what will a decent pump like the one you recommended be capable of pushing. I notice mostly all the coolant bottles I see for sell come with 32oz's so I'm assuming that's a normal amount for a typical WC setup? What if I added a 2nd pump and another res or 2. The more I think about my setup the more I want it to be over the top. I want a system where I post pictures and half the people go "nice man" and the other half go "that's ignorant!" hehe.

 

[aigomorla]

dual res's are mostly signs of dual loop. Same as dual color coolant.

If your using a single loop, there is no need for 2 res's. If you going dual loop, dual res's would be recomended.

 

[QueBert]

HUMMMM if I ran 2 loops I could have 2 colors! yellow & green. I could make a 7-up themed mod

or just perhaps 2 different greens, the Alien & Acid ones I'm looking at seem to have a very different color to them.