Water <----> Salt

leolaw

Senior member
Apr 29, 2003
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Does 1L of distilled water get to the boiling point faster if you put (Before you boil it) like 200mL of salt into it? Why (Please be specific)?

How come adding salt into the boilied water would raise its temperature?

HELPPPP FOR my sci project........btw, i need scientific answer.....any helps would be great....thank yu
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
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I only half understand why because the girl in front of me in chemistry had the sexiest legs and would always prop them up on a chair next to her. Sorry I can't be of more help.

*EDIT* The best I can do is that adding salt raises the boiling temperature of water, so the water heats up more in order to boil... so the salt only indirectly raises the temperature of the water.
 

Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
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Oscar is partially right. Adding salt to water does increase it's boiling point, but it decreases its heat capacity.

If you look at the heat capacity of salt water, you will find that it is less than pure water. In other words, it takes less energy to raise the temperature of the salt water 1°C than pure water. This means that the salt water heats up faster and eventually gets to its boiling point first.

Why does salt water have a lower heat capacity? If you look at 100 grams of pure water, it contains 100 grams of water, but 100 grams of 20 percent salt water only contains 80 grams of water. The other 20 grams is the dissolved salt. The heat capacity of dissolved salt is almost zero when compared to the high heat capacity of water. This means that the heat capacity of a 20-percent salt solution is 80 percent that of pure water. Twenty percent salt water will heat up almost 25 percent faster than pure water and will win the speed race to the boiling point.
 

bolomite

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2000
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200 mL of salt? you probably meant grams, right?

the water will boil at some T > 100 C; since the salt (solute) has dissolved in the water (solution), more energy in the form of heating is needed to overcome the solute-solvent interaction and liberate the water molecules (more energy than what is normally necessary to boil pure water)

since salt is an ionic solid, the solute-solvent interaction is quite strong
 

Rob9874

Diamond Member
Nov 7, 1999
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Originally posted by: DannyBoy
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Edited because, apparently, I'm a retard.

I thought you could pour liquid nitrogen over your hand :confused:

Now im sure ive seen that on telly...?

I've seen a banana dipped in liquid nitrogen, and then smashed to pieces with a hammer.
 

DannyBoy

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2002
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www.danj.me
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: DannyBoy
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Edited because, apparently, I'm a retard.

I thought you could pour liquid nitrogen over your hand :confused:

Now im sure ive seen that on telly...?

I've seen a banana dipped in liquid nitrogen, and then smashed to pieces with a hammer.

I didnt say dipped..

Im positive on tv many times ive seen them pour liquid nitrogen straight over someones palm and back into the bowl..
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
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Originally posted by: DannyBoy
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Edited because, apparently, I'm a retard.

I thought you could pour liquid nitrogen over your hand :confused:

Now im sure ive seen that on telly...?

Kind of. You can splash it on yourself for sure because it boils instantly on contact. The first bit forms a protective layer so none of the liquid ever really touches you. Sticking your hand into a thermos of the stuff is completely different though.
 

leolaw

Senior member
Apr 29, 2003
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But my experiment had shown that 200mL of salt + 800mL of distilled water does boil faster than 1L distilled water (get to the boiling point faster)......
 

iwearnosox

Lifer
Oct 26, 2000
16,018
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Originally posted by: Belethgaladwen
Originally posted by: DannyBoy
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: DannyBoy
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Edited because, apparently, I'm a retard.

I thought you could pour liquid nitrogen over your hand :confused:

Now im sure ive seen that on telly...?

I've dipped my hand in liquid nitrogen
I've seen someone put it in their mouth. Crazy, but apparently a small layer of air protects the tongue when done right- the bernoulli effect?

Still crazy!
 

rgwalt

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2000
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Originally posted by: leolaw
But my experiment had shown that 200mL of salt + 800mL of distilled water does boil faster than 1L distilled water (get to the boiling point faster)......

This is because the salt water solution has a lower heat capacity than pure water, so it takes less energy to raise the temperature of the solution than it would if you were heating pure water. As a result the solution reaches the boiling point faster than pure water. The boiling point should also be higher than pure water.

R

 

Ness

Diamond Member
Jul 10, 2002
5,407
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Originally posted by: Belethgaladwen
Originally posted by: DannyBoy
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Originally posted by: DannyBoy
Originally posted by: Rob9874
Edited because, apparently, I'm a retard.

I thought you could pour liquid nitrogen over your hand :confused:

Now im sure ive seen that on telly...?

I've dipped my hand in liquid nitrogen


How long did it take you to type that with one hand?
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,585
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First of all, I too have diped my hand in liquid nitrogen. As have all of my highschool friends (chemistry and physics classes made us do it). As long as you do it quickly, you never feel a thing - the nitrogen boils from your hand heat and you never actually touch any liquid nitrogen, even if you put your hand all the way down to the bottom of the container. If you do it slowly, you will lose you hand.

Back to the main subject:

A lot of misleading information in this thread (with a PhD in chemical engineering, I better know this stuff). Even one of those links mentioned this fact: "Please note that [everything in this link] will not hold true if you take two identical pots containing one gallon of water each and add the salt to one pot".

Back to the original topic, there are two possible cases:
1) You take 1 L of water, and compare it to 1 L of water + 433 gm of salt.
2) You take 1 L of water, and compare it to 0.8 L of water + 433 gm of salt.
Leolaw clearly asked about case #1 in the original post, but you all answered about case #2 - meaning you didn't answer the question that was asked. Leolaw, do you clearly understand the difference of these two experiments?

Lets keep things simple and assume the properties of materials are constant with temperature. Lets also assume everything starts at 20°C. Thus the heat capacity of water is 4.182 J/g°C and the heat capacity of salt (assumed to be NaCl) is 0.86 J/g°C. The density of salt is 2.165 g/cm^3, thus 200 mL of salt weighs 433 g.

If you have 1 L of water (1000 g), you need 4.182 J/g°C * 1000 g * (100°C - 20°C) = 3.346*10^5 J of energy to reach 100°C.

If you have 433 g of salt, you need 0.86 J/g°C * 433 g * (100°C - 20°C) = 2.979*10^4 J of energy to heat it up to 100°C. Thus if you combine both of those (1 L of water + 433 g of salt), you need 3.644*10^5 J of energy to reach 100°C. Note how this is more energy required than with just pure water. Meaning it will automatically take 8.9% longer to reach 100°C (assuming you add heat at the same rate)! But in this salt water mix, you still haven't reached its boiling point - meaning you still need to add even more heat to get it to boil (and thus more time).

A colligative properly means that it doesn't matter what you add, but only the amount that you add. Thus 1 M of salt water has the same boiling point a 1 M of sugar water. This rule isn't always held 100% perfectly, but for an first assumption it is quite close to reality. The boiling point of water is: 100°C + Cm * 0.521°C/M. Where Cm is the molar concentration of whatever was added to water.

The molecular weight of NaCl is 54.88 g/mol. Thus you added 433 g / 58.44 g/mol = 7.409 mol of salt. Hopefully you can calculate the molar concentration of your 1L water + 7.409 mol salt mixture. Then multiply that result by 0.521°C/M and add 100°C. That will give you the boiling point for your mixture. I'll let you do the rest of your homework to see how much total heat is needed to reach this new boiling point. Hint: it will be more heat than the 3.644*10^5 J I mentioned above.
 

leolaw

Senior member
Apr 29, 2003
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Nah I am asking about the second one, Because the volume of the liquid would be different start from the beginning if you do the first one
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
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Originally posted by: leolaw
Nah I am asking about the second one, Because the volume of the liquid would be different start from the beginning if you do the first one
Ok there are two problems then.
1) Your first post clearly says 1 L of water and ADD 200 mL of salt. You need to edit that.
2) 800 mL of water + 200 mL of salt does not give 1 L of salt water. Volumes are rarely ever additive. Frequently the final volume is less than the sum, or in some cases the final volume is more than the sum of the individual parts.
 

leolaw

Senior member
Apr 29, 2003
383
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Alright, dullard I get this question now, (since i get the required energy to get to the boiling point for the salt water)

And I have another question:

Boiling with 1L of distilled water, after it gets it boiling point, I start adding 1 tablespoon of salt into it, and each time I added the salt, the water rises the temperature w/ 1ºC
WHY?
 

leolaw

Senior member
Apr 29, 2003
383
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You know that when you calculate the amount of energy required to take to the temperature, you use:
(the heat capacity of the liquid) x (the volume of liquid) x (the difference of the temperature)

What kind of forumla is this? Cause I prolly have to explain this to my teacher.
 

eakers

Lifer
Aug 14, 2000
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to put it simply: salt lowers the boiling point of water thus it takes less heat to melt it.

thats why you put salt on icy roads.
 

WinkOsmosis

Banned
Sep 18, 2002
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Originally posted by: leolaw
Alright, dullard I get this question now, (since i get the required energy to get to the boiling point for the salt water)

And I have another question:

Boiling with 1L of distilled water, after it gets it boiling point, I start adding 1 tablespoon of salt into it, and each time I added the salt, the water rises the temperature w/ 1ºC
WHY?

Because the salt increases the boiling point. When a liquid is boiling, it STAYS at that boiling point. Distilled water that is boiling does not go above 100°C. Add salt, and that boiling point increases.
 

WinkOsmosis

Banned
Sep 18, 2002
13,990
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Originally posted by: eakers
to put it simply: salt lowers the boiling point of water thus it takes less heat to melt it.

thats why you put salt on icy roads.

Salt lowers the melting/freezing point.