Water pump bad?

[Sniper82]

I went to have my coolant flushed and thermostat changed and they told me it was likely the water pump that needed replaced. They said the coolant looked fine(Dex Cool) which I think is BS because there are rust like substance on the inside sides of the coolant tank. Ever since I got the car(over 3 years go) it ran at 200 degrees at all times(idle,driving,ect) and just this spring while idling it creeps a couple lines past 200. Driving down the road it runs fine(200).

I decided not to have coolant or anything changed because I wanted to get a second opinion on it because they told me it was a 4 hour job to change the pump which was gonna run me $250 for labor. I just want to try and make sure this was likely the problem because thats alot of money to put into a water pump and that not fix the problem.

The car is a 2000 Grand Am SE 2.4L with 142,000 miles on it and has never had the coolant or thermostat changed since I've owned it.

Opinions? Bite the bullet and have the pump changed?

I am gonna go Monday for second opinion. I just wanted to see what some of you say that might know a bit about cars.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[WildHorse]

if you hear a sound like gravel tumbling around inside it, then that's probably a failed water pump bearing.

If you don't have a manual for your engine, then your local public library may, else find one online free. Its only use is to see a drawing showing how the pump mounting works.

Water pump replacement is an easy do-it-yourself bolt-off bolt-on job. Only hard part may be accessing mounting bolts. But not that hard if you have a set of socket wrenches.

I've replaced I think 3 water pumps.

Just do it yourself.

You can buy a reconditioned pump at local auto parts store. Make sure the o-ring seal or whatever other seal is necessary comes with it. You can pick up some hand cleaner while you're at it.

If you can wait for shipping, you'll get a significantly lower price online . . . shop around.

If at brick & mortar store, take, or arrange to later take, your old pump to them for some credit (core charge).

The do-it-yourself replacement might take around 30 min if you're new to it. I'd imagine that a mechanic could change it out in maybe 10 - 15 minutes or less. If they want you to pay for 4 hours of labor then you are getting royally screwed to the max, and then some. Outrageous robbery!

For the coolant issue, you'd go to a radiator repair shop for a boil-out, rod-out, rust treatment, leak seal and repainting of your radiator, & new hoses. Not very expensive.

edited for typos

 

[HiTek21]

was the timing belt and water pump ever changed in the vehicles history? It could be something else like a bad thermostat, air in the coolant system, or your radiator fan's not turning on.

I've never worked on a pontiac grand am but on my previous two cars I had a small sensor at the bottom of my radiator that triggers the radiator fans to turn on when the coolant reached a certain temperature.

Let your car idle with the hood open in your driveway and see if your fans are turning on. Keep an eye on your temperature gauge so it doesn't over heat.

Edit: I spent close to $600 to have my timing belt, water pump, & idler bearing changed on my 93 Acura at 180k miles.

Text this might help you diagnose it a little.

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: scott
if you hear a sound like gravel tumbling around inside it, then that's probably a failed water pump bearing.

If you don't have a manual for your engine, then your local public library may, else find one online free. Its only use is to see a drawing showing how the pump mounting works.

Water pump replacement is an easy do-it-yourself bolt-off bolt-on job. Only hard part may be accessing mounting bolts. But not that hard if you have a set of socket wrenches.

I've replaced I think 3 water pumps.

Just do it yourself.

You can buy a reconditioned pump at local auto parts store. Make sure the o-ring seal or whatever other seal is necessary comes with it. You can pick up some hand cleaner while you're at it.

If you can wait for shipping, you'll get a significantly lower price online . . . shop around.

If at brick & mortar store, take, or arrange to later take, your old pump to them for some credit (core charge).

The do-it-yourself replacement might take around 30 min if you're new to it. I'd imagine that a mechanic could change it out in maybe 10 - 15 minutes or less. If they want you to pay for 4 hours of labor then you are getting royally screwed to the max, and then some. Outrageous robbery!

For the coolant issue, you'd go to a radiator repair shop for a boil-out, rod-out, rust treatment, leak seal and repainting of your radiator, & new hoses. Not very expensive.

edited for typos

I would change it myself but unfortunately the water pump uses the timing chain and not a belt to work. So its located in there with the timing chain. It requires the car to be lifted and one side of the engine supported then one of the engine mounts removed.

Originally posted by: HiTek21
was the timing belt and water pump ever changed in the vehicles history? It could be something else like a bad thermostat, air in the coolant system, or your radiator fan's not turning on.

I've never worked on a pontiac grand am but on my previous two cars I had a small sensor at the bottom of my radiator that triggers the radiator fans to turn on when the coolant reached a certain temperature.

Let your car idle with the hood open in your driveway and see if your fans are turning on. Keep an eye on your temperature gauge so it doesn't over heat.

The timing chain or water pump has never been changed by me the 3+ years I had it. I got the car at around 85,000 miles so I doubt they was ever changed. The only time I've noticed the fan coming on is when I kick the AC on then both normally come on. Is it possible to get a sensor that kicks the fan on at a cooler temp then factory?

 

[HiTek21]

Okay I wasn't sure if it had a belt or chain but since it has a chain it usually doesn't need to be replaced. Only reason I meantioned that is most of the time they replace the water pump when the timing belt is changed. If you don't do the water pump you have to remove the timing belt again if that goes bad.

As far as I know the temperature sensor is a preset and is not adjustable. it could be that your thermostat is not opening so the coolant isn't circulating through the radiator.

Your fans should come on with the A/C to cool off the condenser coils but it should also come on when your engine reaches normal operating temperature. Usually your thermostat opens and the hot coolant reaches the sensor on the bottom of your radiator and triggers the fans.

Text Good place to find replacement parts for you car.

 

[WildHorse]

HiTek21,

Thanks for that link! I'll make good use of that.

 

[imported_Baloo]

200 degrees sound about right, you've certainly don't need a new thermostat. If that is what makes you think you have a problem, you don't. If you want it to run cooler, putting in a lower temp. thermostat.

 

[SVT Cobra]

A broken water pump sounds like a lawn mower when it runs.

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: Baloo
200 degrees sound about right, you've certainly don't need a new thermostat. If that is what makes you think you have a problem, you don't. If you want it to run cooler, putting in a lower temp. thermostat.

Yeah I been told on another forum(Grand Am forum) I should put have it flushed and put in a 185deg thermostat.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Sniper82

Originally posted by: Baloo
200 degrees sound about right, you've certainly don't need a new thermostat. If that is what makes you think you have a problem, you don't. If you want it to run cooler, putting in a lower temp. thermostat.

Yeah I been told on another forum(Grand Am forum) I should put have it flushed and put in a 185deg thermostat.

Correct thermostat is critical for proper fuel mixture and engine operation in that car, the residue inside the tank is a common problem with dexcool if you had a leak and air got into the system.

Do you have a leak and if so was it pressure checked so the leak could be located?
Since you are close to the mileage this is what gm recommends per the service manual.

(150,000 miles)
? Drain, flush and refill the cooling system (or every 60 months since the last service, whichever comes first).
? Inspect the hoses.
? Clean the following components.
- The radiator
- The condenser
- The pressure cap
- The neck this is important as air can get into system if dirty and gm has a bulletin on it
? Pressure test the cooling system and the pressure cap. This is an Emission Control Service.

Also check the fins of the radiator to see if they are clogged with dust and dirt.

 

[1prophet]

Thermostat Description
The 2.4L (4 cyl.) engine uses a pellet type thermostat in the coolant inlet passage to control the flow of coolant. The 3.4L (6 cyl.) engine uses a pellet-type thermostat in the coolant outlet passage. The thermostat does the following functions:

Provides fast engine warm-up
Regulates the coolant temperature




A wax pellet, or power element (4), in the thermostat expands when heated, and contracts when cooled. The valve is connected to the power element. When the wax expands, the piston (3) pushes against the flange and opens the thermostat. As the pellet cools, contraction allows a spring (5) to close the valve. Thus, the valve remains closed while the coolant is cold. This prevents coolant circulation through the radiator, but allows the coolant to circulate through the engine to warm it quickly and evenly.

As the engine becomes warm, the pellet expands and the thermostat valve opens. This lets coolant flow through the radiator, where heat is passed through the radiator walls. This opening and closing of the thermostat valve allows enough coolant to enter the radiator to keep the engine within specified temperature limits.

A 91°C (195°F) thermostat is used on engines where the thermostat is located in the engine coolant outlet. On engines where the thermostat is located in the engine coolant inlet a 82°C (180°F) thermostat is used. Using thermostats rated above these control temperatures is not recommended. Higher temperature thermostats will not provide faster warm-up, since their valves remain tightly closed until the control temperature is reached, as does a lower temperature thermostat. The thermostat must be installed with the pointed end facing toward the radiator. Incorrect installation of the thermostat may cause the engine to overheat.

 

[1EZduzit]

I assume you blew the dirt out of the radiator fins? Sometime they get plugged up pretty badly.

 

[jupiter57]

200 - 210 degrees is about right with a 195 degree thermostat.
If there is no "play" in the water pump, it is not leaking, or not making any noise, there should be no need to replace it.
I would at least change the coolant, though. Dex-Cool really does need to be changed every 3 years at least.

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: jupiter57
200 - 210 degrees is about right with a 195 degree thermostat.
If there is no "play" in the water pump, it is not leaking, or not making any noise, there should be no need to replace it.
I would at least change the coolant, though. Dex-Cool really does need to be changed every 3 years at least.

Well its about 4 years overdue . I doubt it had been changed before I got(3-4 years ago) it but you never know. I know very little about cars and knew nothing about Dex Cool. I am gonna have it flushed soon.

So should I stick with the 195 or ask for a 185? I really don't mind the engine taking a little longer to warm up as long as it doesn't cause any problems and runs cooler.

 

[BUTCH1]

Water pumps are a PITA on FWD cars, a lot of work just to get at it. Expect to spend the afternoon
getting it changed out.

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Water pumps are a PITA on FWD cars, a lot of work just to get at it. Expect to spend the afternoon
getting it changed out.

I won't be but I will be out $300 with parts and labor to have it done. Unfortunately I don't have to tools to do this type of job.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I see nothing wrong that temp you say your car is running. I woundn't mess with it at all. You were due for a coolant flush at 100k I think...so you could change the themostat too if it makes you feel better.

And you probably don't want any part of that water pump job. Not at home with limited skills and tools. Plus, I don't see any reason that you need one, anyway. There is no set time to replace a water pump, and Dexcool does allow the pumps to last longer.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: Sniper82

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Water pumps are a PITA on FWD cars, a lot of work just to get at it. Expect to spend the afternoon
getting it changed out.

I won't be but I will be out $300 with parts and labor to have it done. Unfortunately I don't have to tools to do this type of job.

That's why it costs so much, FWD. That's why even to change a timing belt costs $200-250.

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
I see nothing wrong that temp you say your car is running. I woundn't mess with it at all. You were due for a coolant flush at 100k I think...so you could change the themostat too if it makes you feel better.

And you probably don't want any part of that water pump job. Not at home with limited skills and tools. Plus, I don't see any reason that you need one, anyway. There is no set time to replace a water pump, and Dexcool does allow the pumps to last longer.

Yeah the water pump is gonna be the last resort. I am gonna have it flushed and let them decide on the thermostat. Only reason I want to change it is because its never been changed afaik and and they wouldn't charge much more to do it. I just want to rule them out.

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: Sniper82

Originally posted by: BUTCH1
Water pumps are a PITA on FWD cars, a lot of work just to get at it. Expect to spend the afternoon
getting it changed out.

I won't be but I will be out $300 with parts and labor to have it done. Unfortunately I don't have to tools to do this type of job.

That's why it costs so much, FWD. That's why even to change a timing belt costs $200-250.

Yeah I hate them, had the water pump been on the outside and belt driven I could have changed it myself. Does anyone happen to know the factory temp the coolant has to be before the radiator fan kicks on?

 

[toolboxolio]

You need to get a new car.

Grand AM's are POS's and will drain the livelihood out of your balls.

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: toolboxolio
You need to get a new car.

Grand AM's are POS's and will drain the livelihood out of your balls.

You buying? If so I'm game.

 

[toolboxolio]

Originally posted by: Sniper82

Originally posted by: toolboxolio
You need to get a new car.

Grand AM's are POS's and will drain the livelihood out of your balls.

You buying? If so I'm game.

hecks no.... I just got a car.

which reminds me, i must make a thread for it and gain input on my purchase.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: toolboxolio

Originally posted by: Sniper82

Originally posted by: toolboxolio
You need to get a new car.

Grand AM's are POS's and will drain the livelihood out of your balls.

You buying? If so I'm game.

hecks no.... I just got a car.

which reminds me, i must make a thread for it and gain input on my purchase.

Don't bother. Whatever you bought is a POS and already drained the livelihood out of your balls.

 

[Sniper82]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: toolboxolio

Originally posted by: Sniper82

Originally posted by: toolboxolio
You need to get a new car.

Grand AM's are POS's and will drain the livelihood out of your balls.

You buying? If so I'm game.

hecks no.... I just got a car.

which reminds me, i must make a thread for it and gain input on my purchase.

Don't bother. Whatever you bought is a POS and already drained the livelihood out of your balls.

lol

 

[toolboxolio]

Originally posted by: boomerang

Originally posted by: toolboxolio

Originally posted by: Sniper82

Originally posted by: toolboxolio
You need to get a new car.

Grand AM's are POS's and will drain the livelihood out of your balls.

You buying? If so I'm game.

hecks no.... I just got a car.

which reminds me, i must make a thread for it and gain input on my purchase.

Don't bother. Whatever you bought is a POS and already drained the livelihood out of your balls.

You're right, it's a Piece O' Sweetness. And I came when I drove it.



Seriously though... get your own material. You're not witty.