Water Line Leak: Plastic Pipe Diameter 1.13"

[Ban Bot]

We have a water leak between our house and the meter; total water loss is 50-100gal. per day. After a week of digging last night I found the leak (1/4" pinhole). The pipe is a black plastic--I do not know when it was put in. I do know 10" up the line toward the house it connects to some old galvanized steel.

As a temporary fix tonight I am going to patch it with some self fusing silicone tape (Rust-Oleum LeakSeal). My goal, after talking to my brother who is a plumber, was to cut out a small piece where the break is and use a PVC barb x barb coupling insert and some clamps to fix the line. He advised this because I told him it was black line and thought it was polyethylene (HDPE). I may be wrong.

To do so I needed to determine the diameter so I used some string which measured in at 3-9/16", converting the circumference to diameter this is 1.13"

PROBLEM: Poly comes in is 1.32" outer diameter (1 in.) and 1.05" outer diameter (3/4 in.). This appears standard for plastic and metal pipe.

A quick google turned up that Copper is 1.13" diameter. So this pipe seems to be some Copper compatible pipe?

I am going to call my brother tonight as I still want to properly fix the line this weekend (Sunday).

If this ends up being PVC it looks like I need to dig up the OTHER 60ft (ugh!) and re-do the entire line. Not sure yet. Any thoughts? I obviously don't want to CUT my plastic pipe to only discover my barbs don't fit/work!!

 

[C1]

Sounds like the classic polypropylene ( 1" ID).

I just recently went thru this exercise.
Did end up replacing the line from meter to the house anyways as "poly pipe" has a life span of 25 - 30 years and the pipe was that old.

The issue around here is that the city water pressure is very high (120 psi but has been measured in surrounding areas up to 150 psi off hours; as the city grows, the water pressure is raised to maintain service).

There are special connectors the city uses for this pipe. (I have some of them for emergency repairs, but right now I cant find the project folder with them to show you - too much trash on my HDDs. The company that makes them is still around, but I cant remember the name - am at the library now.)

The special connectors are bronze compression and employ a stainless steel sleeve insert into the poly pipe. The connectors are very heavy duty & if you use them then the pipe will be legitimately spliced (ie, it will never leak there). This will get you by until the next leak event (ie, the poly pipe breaking somewhere else) depending on age of the pipe and the pressure.

I'll try to locate the project folder & get back if you are interested.

 

[boomerang]

Can't help but just wanted to say that the "old galvanized steel" sounds like something to be concerned about too. And if what C1 says is true, and I should say that I have no reason to doubt him, I think more digging and replacing the whole line might be a wise thing to do.

Also, ID is what is important in this case. I think you know that but I mention it because there may not be a standard on the OD of this pipe, or at the very least a range of acceptable diameters, but the ID would need to be held to a standard.

I'm guessing your brother does not live nearby?

 

[Ban Bot]

Thanks guys.

He doesn't live real close--but close enough to drive up to connect a new line if I dig it out.

Which at this point I think the plan is to:

1. Try to self fusion silicone tape as a temporary repair.

2. Dig out the line to remove the galvanized steel (probably 50 years old and destined to be a problem) and this unidentified (probably PE) line.

I REALLY appreciate the feedback. Confirmed what I was thinking.

 

[skyking]

you have 1" Copper Tube Size (CTS) Poly pipe. They also made Iron Pipe Size (IPS) It can be fixed with a compression fitting as stated above.
Do not use a barb X barb and any band clamp in the ground. It is not a long lasting repair. Those clamps just quit on you.
Do use a pex or even the black PE if you replace the whole line.

 

[Ban Bot]

Could someone link to HD or Lowes what one of those compression fittings and such look like?

 

[skyking]

I'd go to an HD supply if you have one nearby. home depot may not have the right stuff.
mueller makes a good part.
http://www.zoro.com/g/Low%20Lead%20Brass%20Couplings/00149590/

 

[C1]

The company that sells to the city is "James Jones"
Here's link to their catalog: http://www.jamesjones.com/Downloads/03 Service Fittings_11-11.pdf

You'll probably need something like Part No. J-2606 in a 1"

Below is a splice I made back about 15 years ago and never had any issue with the repair longevity or reliability. (Pipe finally ended up leaking somewhere else due to age - gets brittle. Original leak resulted because the poly pipe was stretched over a large stone which finally wore thru the pipe.) The big requirement is the stainless steel sleeve insert.

 

[Ban Bot]

Thanks everyone.

I temporarily successfully patched the leak with some self fusing silicone tape (Rust Oleum brand LeakSeal).

Next step is I will be digging out the entire line. My brother will then come up and connect the new line for me.

I appreciate everyone's timely feedback.

 

[Ban Bot]

Small update. We had the entire line dug up about 2 weeks ago. Had the entire line replaced with PEXa this weekend. Connected new brass fittings to the copper going into the home and as well to the meter. Spent about $180 on the PEXa and another $40 for fittings. Plus about $150 for shovels and pick/mattock. Toss in the tape I spent about $400 on the entire project--a lot cheaper than paying a plumber. But a lot of work, too...

We are taking all the rocks out of the dirt (already have about a yards worth) and will put them on the side alley of the house that gets no sun.

 

[cabri]

After taking out all the rocks; there will be settling where you dug; plan on adding dirt if you did not place new gravel in the trench

 

[highland145]

Wouldn't want gravel on the new line. Clean fill, at least to cover it.

 

[Ban Bot]

Yes, we are going to get ~ 10 yards of top soil. Most of it is for the backyard as there is a bit of erosion (can see 3-6 inches of the concrete around the fence posts on one side of the fence line ~ 50 ft) and ~ 1 - 2 yards will go on the water line to replace all the stones we are removing

Good advice!

 

[skyking]

Once you get a few inches of rock free soil over the line you can put the rocks in the ditch with no worries. It is a good place for rocks

 

[DrPizza]

Once you get a few inches of rock free soil over the line you can put the rocks in the ditch with no worries. It is a good place for rocks

I'm waiting for the "okay, so I placed a lot of rocks along the non-sunny side of the house, to avoid any upkeep. They looked nice at first, but then weeds started growing between the rocks. How do I..." thread.

 

[Ban Bot]

I'm waiting for the "okay, so I placed a lot of rocks along the non-sunny side of the house, to avoid any upkeep. They looked nice at first, but then weeds started growing between the rocks. How do I..." thread.

Ouch, you nailed my MO

But you whiffed on this one--I have kids to pluck weeds! And if that fails then Roundup! And if they become too slick I could put gravel in.

That being said I do have like 10 projects in the works I need advice on so I best be posting new threads!

 

[skyking]

I'm waiting for the "okay, so I placed a lot of rocks along the non-sunny side of the house, to avoid any upkeep. They looked nice at first, but then weeds started growing between the rocks. How do I..." thread.

I wasn't suggesting topping it out with rocks. I have so many here that I take any opportunity to hide a few. If I go out and pick some rocks for lawn preparation I get a depression with some smaller rocks in it