Water heaters

[Craig234]

Go with Costco's A. O. Smith with a 15 year warranty at $1200?

Or with Home Depot's off-brand 6 year warranty for about $400-500 less?

Assuming not to get some new technology, from solar to 'instant' whatever.

Any opinions in the next few minutes?

 

[SparkyJJO]

Just go with the standard warranty of 6 years or whatever it happens to be for that brand. HD sells a lot of GE water heaters. $1200 for a water heater that is supposedly guaranteed to last 15 years (BUT the warranty is most likely prorated!) vs one half the cost, with a 6 year warranty, and more than likely will last the same amount of time. The simpler the water heater, the better, as there is far less to go wrong.

 

[SlickSnake]

Several things to consider.

First, check your power/gas company for any rebates you may be eligible for on water heaters. I got $80 back on my electric one recently but had to buy one that fit their criteria.

Secondly, how long are you going to be at your present house? If you might move in the next 6 years, the extra warranty won't do you any good.

Thirdly, many seem to spring leaks or have the heating elements fail around the 5-8 year point, BUT the warranty usually only covers the sealed tank against leaks, not any of the heating elements that break more often.

I hope this helps.

 

[Craig234]

I value the 15 year warranty, and should double check but since it's Costco it's probably a legit full warranty.

It's more the 'is the quality worth the extra' type question. I have a one-time 10% off at Home Depot and can include a water heater if I want it there, shopping tonight.

 

[jagec]

Cheap water heater + checking and changing the anode regularly = fancy water heater.

 

[BUTCH1]

We talking electric or gas? I bought a GE smartwater 10yrs ago, still doing fine, it replaced a Reem that was 38yrs old and didn't leak, I just figured I was pushing my luck..

 

[BoomerD]

Bradford White if possible.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Speaking of water heaters, do they make ones that work the same way as high efficiency furnaces and are they actually obtainable? It seems to me we are still in the dark ages as far as hot water heaters go. The fact that I can burn myself if I touch the exhaust shows how inefficient they are. That heat is being wasted instead of going towards the water. The power vent ones arn't really any different, the air is just traveling at a higher velocity so the ABS pipe does not melt, and I think they ARE a tad more efficient, but still not comparable to a high efficiency closed combustion loop furnace.

Electric is probably the most efficient, but gas is cheaper to run.

 

[tynopik]

tankless is the future

don't waste paying extra on old tank-tech

 

[Red Squirrel]

Tankless is only really good in the south. I guess you could put two tankless in series to get increase the delta temp. But yeah, I'm hoping the tech improves as I definitely want to look at that in the future. I hear they are not very DIY friendly though, lot of electronics and stuff.

 

[Craig234]

I expect to have this done, not DIY. Are tankless the better pick now? I read something suggesting it's better to replace an old tank with another. Still not sure what to get.

Choices for tank are A. O. Smith with Costco, or GE from Home Depot (they say it's made by Reem). They have varying quality (6, 9, 12 year 'pro rated' warranties).

 

[Red Squirrel]

AO Smith is quite well known, I see those a lot. Rheem is also pretty well known and widely used.

 

[tynopik]

there's nothing fancy about tank water heaters, paying extra doesn't buy you much

anything should work fine

 

[bignateyk]

The 12yr warranty water heater is the same thing as the 6 year warranty. You're just paying extra for a longer warranty. It's all basically made with the same parts.

Chances are your 6 year warranty is gonna last at least 10 years unless you have incredibly corrosive water and/or you never drain the sediment out of it. No point in paying twice the price for the same thing.

There's not much that can fail in those things. The elements might go, but they are cheap and easy to replace (maybe $10/element and an hour of your time). The tank will start to leak eventually, but that should last 10+ years unless your water is really bad.

 

[TheFamilyMan]

The 12yr warranty water heater is the same thing as the 6 year warranty. You're just paying extra for a longer warranty. It's all basically made with the same parts.

Wrong. While the tank construction is essentially the same, there is more foam insulation in the 12-year warranty heater giving a better EF rating in most cases. The 12-year warranty heater also has an additional anode rod and is self-cleaning.

Chances are your 6 year warranty is gonna last at least 10 years unless you have incredibly corrosive water and/or you never drain the sediment out of it. No point in paying twice the price for the same thing.

Somewhat correct on this one. Average life of 6-year water heaters made by Rheem are upwards of 12 or 13 years if your water is not too hard or too soft. No real sediment draining is needed on many Rheem/GE products as a special dip-tube is utilized that keeps sediment from building up.

There's not much that can fail in those things. The elements might go, but they are cheap and easy to replace (maybe $10/element and an hour of your time). The tank will start to leak eventually, but that should last 10+ years unless your water is really bad.

Correct on this one as well. If your unit is gas, the major part there is the burner, gas valve, and pilot light assemblies and they are all somewhat replaceable depending on the unit.

Also, if you're going gas, keep in mind that the gas Rheem heaters (GE branded in HD) are the only heaters on the market that completely shut themselves down (i.e. no access to gas or oxygen) and render themselves inoperable when a flame-up situation registers. The heater is dead and you get another heater as a replacement.

 

[BUTCH1]

OP still has not specified if it's a NG or electric type heater. When I bought my GE from HD they had installation available for $200...huh? the dang WH only cost $220, I told them to load it in my hatchback and took it home. Them I bought a soldering kit $20, and bought some small pieces of copper pipe and cheap couplers to practice on, once I felt I had it down I installed the heater, had to raise the in and out lines for the new heater and sweated in new valves as well, I'd be dammed to pay a plumber $200 for a job he could do in 15 minutes.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Installed this one recently in my basement. http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/accelera.html. Its expensive (~$2400 - $300 in federal rebate), but it should pay for itself in about 4 years (annual running cost is estimated to be ~$240/year, vs. $850/year I was spending to run my oil furnace to heat hot water. It also dehumidifies the air in my basement when the heat pump is in operation, which is another benefit.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

OP still has not specified if it's a NG or electric type heater. When I bought my GE from HD they had installation available for $200...huh? the dang WH only cost $220, I told them to load it in my hatchback and took it home. Them I bought a soldering kit $20, and bought some small pieces of copper pipe and cheap couplers to practice on, once I felt I had it down I installed the heater, had to raise the in and out lines for the new heater and sweated in new valves as well, I'd be dammed to pay a plumber $200 for a job he could do in 15 minutes.

$200 for installing a HWH is cheap, TBH.

 

[BUTCH1]

$200 for installing a HWH is cheap, TBH.

For a plumber it's a 15 minute job, you've got the 220, hot and cold lines right there. They say your paying for expertize that might be needed if problems arise and I guess that's true, but there's not very much can go wrong installing a WH..

 

[Eug]

Tankless is only really good in the south. I guess you could put two tankless in series to get increase the delta temp. But yeah, I'm hoping the tech improves as I definitely want to look at that in the future. I hear they are not very DIY friendly though, lot of electronics and stuff.

My 50 gallon tank heater couldn't fill my huge soaker tub. The heater sprung a leak last year, and I didn't have enough height for a 75 gallon tank, so I just replaced it with a tankless.

With 199900 BTUs, it's fine enough for Toronto winters. I can run a strong shower and another fixture at the same time no problem in the dead of winter. (Shower head is an 8x12" rectangular shower head with decent flow.) It's also OK with two lower flow shower heads running simultaneously, but not fine if one of the shower heads is higher flow. (A guest shower has a higher flow head from the 1990s. I'm going to put a modern lower flow head on it soon so that when guests take a shower, it doesn't affect our master bedroom shower too much.)

Actually, I have a small, 6 gallon buffer tank after the tankless. It's just an electric tank. The reason I got it is to eliminate the delay associated with tankless, and to eliminate the cold water sandwich.

Main drawbacks of tankless is there is no hot water in a power outage, even for my natural gas powered one, so I just installed a cheap sine wave UPS for under $200, and it needs to be flushed every couple of years. Oh and it's expensive. Mind you, a name-brand power vented 75 gallon tank would have cost a lot too. The truly inexpensive tanks are usually 50 gallons and less, and not power vented.

For a plumber it's a 15 minute job, you've got the 220, hot and cold lines right there. They say your paying for expertize that might be needed if problems arise and I guess that's true, but there's not very much can go wrong installing a WH..

Well, you need a couple of guys to remove the old tank, and to bring in the new one too. $200 seems inexpensive to me, unless you have everything set up for the plumber in advance, and all the piping and ducting is extra.

 

[feralkid]

Speaking of water heaters, do they make ones that work the same way as high efficiency furnaces and are they actually obtainable? It seems to me we are still in the dark ages as far as hot water heaters go. The fact that I can burn myself if I touch the exhaust shows how inefficient they are. That heat is being wasted instead of going towards the water. The power vent ones arn't really any different, the air is just traveling at a higher velocity so the ABS pipe does not melt, and I think they ARE a tad more efficient, but still not comparable to a high efficiency closed combustion loop furnace.

Electric is probably the most efficient, but gas is cheaper to run.

That's half your problem right there.

Don't bother heating hot water; buy a regular water heater and save some energy.

 

[bignateyk]

Well, you need a couple of guys to remove the old tank, and to bring in the new one too. $200 seems inexpensive to me, unless you have everything set up for the plumber in advance, and all the piping and ducting is extra.

It's a one-man job assuming you drain the old water heater prior to removing it. They aren't too heavy empty. I just rolled mine onto a dolly.

 

[Eug]

It's a one-man job assuming you drain the old water heater prior to removing it. They aren't too heavy empty. I just rolled mine onto a dolly.

My 50 gallon power vented one took two guys and a dolly to remove it, and they had a lot of trouble getting it up the stairs.

I tried lifting it after it was emptied and I could barely budge it. I'm not Arnie, but I'm not 98 lbs either.

I suspect though it was because it was around 14 years old and probably had a lot of sediment in it.

 

[BUTCH1]

My 50 gallon tank heater couldn't fill my huge soaker tub. The heater sprung a leak last year, and I didn't have enough height for a 75 gallon tank, so I just replaced it with a tankless.

With 199900 BTUs, it's fine enough for Toronto winters. I can run a strong shower and another fixture at the same time no problem in the dead of winter. (Shower head is an 8x12" rectangular shower head with decent flow.) It's also OK with two lower flow shower heads running simultaneously, but not fine if one of the shower heads is higher flow. (A guest shower has a higher flow head from the 1990s. I'm going to put a modern lower flow head on it soon so that when guests take a shower, it doesn't affect our master bedroom shower too much.)

Actually, I have a small, 6 gallon buffer tank after the tankless. It's just an electric tank. The reason I got it is to eliminate the delay associated with tankless, and to eliminate the cold water sandwich.

Main drawbacks of tankless is there is no hot water in a power outage, even for my natural gas powered one, so I just installed a cheap sine wave UPS for under $200, and it needs to be flushed every couple of years. Oh and it's expensive. Mind you, a name-brand power vented 75 gallon tank would have cost a lot too. The truly inexpensive tanks are usually 50 gallons and less, and not power vented.


Well, you need a couple of guys to remove the old tank, and to bring in the new one too. $200 seems inexpensive to me, unless you have everything set up for the plumber in advance, and all the piping and ducting is extra.

You don't need a "couple of guys", just drain the old tank before moving it then roll it out to the curb on it's edge. It's easy for me because I had to roll a lot of 55gl drums around in my last job and an empty WH is light, plus since mine was electric there was on ducting involved, just plumbing the TP release valve which took 10 minutes.

 

[Eug]

You don't need a "couple of guys", just drain the old tank before moving it then roll it out to the curb on it's edge. It's easy for me because I had to roll a lot of 55gl drums around in my last job and an empty WH is light, plus since mine was electric there was on ducting involved, just plumbing the TP release valve which took 10 minutes.

See my post just above yours:

My 50 gallon power vented one took two guys and a dolly to remove it, and they had a lot of trouble getting it up the stairs.

I tried lifting it after it was emptied and I could barely budge it. I'm not Arnie, but I'm not 98 lbs either.

I suspect though it was because it was around 14 years old and probably had a lot of sediment in it.

So I had a look around and it seems these power-vented natural gas 50-gallon tanks are around 150-170 lbs brand new. Add some piping and some sediment and add some stairs, and you've got some trouble, esp. if it's a narrow corridor.

I'd say that justifies 2 people.