Water Cooling

[effee]

Hi, I'm about to start WC my PC as i'm planning to do some major OC, anyway, i am just wondering, how hard would it be to setup WC? how much does the kit cost? is it much more efficient than air cooling? also, any good WC guides for beginners would rock..


thanks

 

[pirred908]

Most compnents in a water cooled system are very straight forward and easy to install. You only have to look at some other water cooled rigs to see how to fit things together. You can either piece a custom kit together or just by a pre-made kit. If you plan to overclock its much more efficient than air. I suggest you piece together a custom kit. Doing it that way is much more effective. Check out the water cooling forum at www.ocforums.com

Good luck.

 

[stardust]

dtek custom flowmaster

dangerden kit

otherwise do some more research and if your handy, make a custom kit with car heatercore, a good waterblock, and a reliable pump.

Resevoirs aren't necessary, but they do help lower the temps a bit and can bleed out the air bubbles. You can also do a T juntion near your pump to bleed out air bubbles.

 

[gotensan01]

There is a wealth of information on these forums and others. When I did my first water cooling kit, I researched it for about 1 month. Then it took me another month to get all the pieces little by little (i bought almost everything from anandtech bbs).

If you want best performance, IMO you really have to build a custom kit. Btw DangerDen, Dtek, etc are custom kits. Here's a checklist of what you need:

CPU block
GPU block (optional but highly recommended)
Chipset/NB block (optional)
Radiator/heatercore (I would basically say go with heatercore, if you look at higher end "radiators" they are basically heatercores)
Pump
Res/Tline/Fill&Bleed kit
Tubing
Clamps
Steam distilled water
Water additive (Swiftech additive, water wetter, etc)

Those are the basic things you need. You should now research all the components and find out which one is right for you. Also, you have to decide whether you want 1/2" or 3/8" Inner Diameter (ID). I did 1/2" but I think 3/8" wouldn't have been that bad. It would have been a heck of a lot easier to get the tubing to fit without kinking.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: effee
Hi, I'm about to start WC my PC as i'm planning to do some major OC, anyway, i am just wondering, how hard would it be to setup WC? how much does the kit cost? is it much more efficient than air cooling? also, any good WC guides for beginners would rock..


thanks

You're going to need to read, as much as you can prior to taking the jump. There's no other way to get enough knowledge to give you the confidence you need to do it right. My general advice is that you stay away from aquarium and car differentiated parts as much as possible. Computer designed parts are more expensive but they have the distinction of being well-suited for the task. Google "water cooling basics" and select some information links to get started. Once you have some basic knowledge and terminology you'll be able to form some opinions and start asking the right questions.

 

[gotensan01]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
You're going to need to read, as much as you can prior to taking the jump. There's no other way to get enough knowledge to give you the confidence you need to do it right. My general advice is that you stay away from aquarium and car differentiated parts as much as possible. Computer designed parts are more expensive but they have the distinction of being well-suited for the task. Google "water cooling basics" and select some information links to get started. Once you have some basic knowledge and terminology you'll be able to form some opinions and start asking the right questions.

I know you know your sh|znit HardWarrior 🙂, but stay away from aquarium parts like Eheim and Hydor pumps? And stay away from car parts like heatercores? I would have to disagree with you...unless you meant something else?

 

[HardWarrior]

That's precisely what I meant to say Gotensan. Water-cooling, and the parts that make it possible are going to have to get better, evolve. That's the way all good technology has to go. Aquarium pump manufacturers aren't going to cater to us to any major degree and neither are car parts makers. In order for WC to change, and in turn become a viable part of mainstream thermal management, we're going to need more companies making high-quality parts, designed for the computer environment. Yes, they'll be more expensive, but I have a hard time understanding why that's a problem when my yearly computer budget is $3000. 🙂 I'm not saying that meatballers HAVE to do it any other way than they are. But water-cooling as a technology (not a hobby) needs fresh blood and a constant influx of new ideas.

 

[gotensan01]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
... my yearly computer budget is $3000. 🙂.

:Q That's a nice budget you got there :thumbsup:
EDIT: Wait a minute. How do you still have stuff to buy? I would run out of things to upgrade/buy after 2 years.

Now I see what you meant, and I agree completely with your reply above. That is why I was so impressed with Dtek's CSP 750. It seems like the first pump to actually cater to computer needs.

 

[ZobarStyl]

I'm about a week away from getting a water-cooling setup...just wanted to run the basics by some of the more knowledgable folks so they could pick out any problems that might exist. I'm likely going to get a complete DDen setup via FrozenCPU, unless anyone knows of the shipping prowess that DDen itself has. The setup will be used on a rig I'm going to build with a CG stepping A64 3200+ on a DFI UT LanParty board, 1 gig PC3500 OCZ, hoping to hit ~2.5 for a comfortable O/C...nothing extreme, just fast and cooled back down nicely via water. The setup will be going in my Chieftec Dragon-style case...gonna have to cut a hole in the top.

Block: DDen A64 RBX

Pump: I keep seeing strange things about the Hydors, so I'm thinking the DDen 12V-D4 pump...this is of course notably more expensive...if anyone know whether the Hydor/Eheims have matching quality I'm all ears.

Res: DD Single 5 1/4 bay, clear acrylic

Radiator: I don't have a 120mm opening on the case, but the heat output numbers for a 80mm (x80 or x160mm) are all dismal (just sheer surface area I suppose) so I'm thinking either the BlackIce XTreme I or II (120x120 or 120x240)...the question is, is the 120x120 sufficient cooling, even if I were to add a GPU cooler in the future, or would the 120x240 be a better choice with the future in mind? Either way, I'm going to have to cut a nice hole in the top of the case with the fans pulling/pushing (pull is better, right?) up and out.

Tubes/Clamps: standard, no UV or tygon.

I'll be using doubly distilled water, autoclaved for zero initial bio load, a minor amount of algacide and some water wetter...and maybe some UV reactant dye.

Any comments/concerns would be appreciated.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: gotensan01

Originally posted by: HardWarrior
... my yearly computer budget is $3000. 🙂.

:Q That's a nice budget you got there :thumbsup:
EDIT: Wait a minute. How do you still have stuff to buy? I would run out of things to upgrade/buy after 2 years.

Now I see what you meant, and I agree completely with your reply above. That is why I was so impressed with Dtek's CSP 750. It seems like the first pump to actually cater to computer needs.

That $3000 includes games\system software AND hardware, for two computers. It's easier to know what I have to spend to keep me and the old lady from arguing. 🙂 I waste a bit too, trying new things. Yeah, I like that pump. From what I understand, two in parallel generate more head than even the large Eheims. It would actually be the second that I know of. My D4 kicks major ass too. It's tiny, has great flow and head, generates almost no EMI to speak of AND doesn't use system coolant to cool itself.

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: ZobarStyl
I'm about a week away from getting a water-cooling setup...just wanted to run the basics by some of the more knowledgable folks so they could pick out any problems that might exist. I'm likely going to get a complete DDen setup via FrozenCPU, unless anyone knows of the shipping prowess that DDen itself has. The setup will be used on a rig I'm going to build with a CG stepping A64 3200+ on a DFI UT LanParty board, 1 gig PC3500 OCZ, hoping to hit ~2.5 for a comfortable O/C...nothing extreme, just fast and cooled back down nicely via water. The setup will be going in my Chieftec Dragon-style case...gonna have to cut a hole in the top.

Block: DDen A64 RBX

Pump: I keep seeing strange things about the Hydors, so I'm thinking the DDen 12V-D4 pump...this is of course notably more expensive...if anyone know whether the Hydor/Eheims have matching quality I'm all ears.

Res: DD Single 5 1/4 bay, clear acrylic

Radiator: I don't have a 120mm opening on the case, but the heat output numbers for a 80mm (x80 or x160mm) are all dismal (just sheer surface area I suppose) so I'm thinking either the BlackIce XTreme I or II (120x120 or 120x240)...the question is, is the 120x120 sufficient cooling, even if I were to add a GPU cooler in the future, or would the 120x240 be a better choice with the future in mind? Either way, I'm going to have to cut a nice hole in the top of the case with the fans pulling/pushing (pull is better, right?) up and out.

Tubes/Clamps: standard, no UV or tygon.

I'll be using doubly distilled water, autoclaved for zero initial bio load, a minor amount of algacide and some water wetter...and maybe some UV reactant dye.

Any comments/concerns would be appreciated.

The RBX has mounting problems on the older AMDs. Since your 64 has an integrated heat-spreader that may not be an issue, but I did hear that the RBX MAY have issues with covering the die entirely. The TDX is the all around good choice if you want a DD block.

In terms of shipping FCPU is the hands-down favorite in that department. You'll have to ride DD a bit to move things along. At least I had to.

Since you're popping for good parts, Tygon is much better compared to Clearflex in the durability, turn and adhesion areas. Tygon is more expensive, but in my experience it's worth it. I hear Primoflex is good and you don't have to add die to the coolant because the hose is UV reactive.

I have a D4 and it rocks. Solid build, a single point of failure and great performance.

Everything else looks good.

 

[gotensan01]

Originally posted by: ZobarStyl
I'm about a week away from getting a water-cooling setup...just wanted to run the basics by some of the more knowledgable folks so they could pick out any problems that might exist. I'm likely going to get a complete DDen setup via FrozenCPU, unless anyone knows of the shipping prowess that DDen itself has. The setup will be used on a rig I'm going to build with a CG stepping A64 3200+ on a DFI UT LanParty board, 1 gig PC3500 OCZ, hoping to hit ~2.5 for a comfortable O/C...nothing extreme, just fast and cooled back down nicely via water. The setup will be going in my Chieftec Dragon-style case...gonna have to cut a hole in the top.

Block: DDen A64 RBX

Pump: I keep seeing strange things about the Hydors, so I'm thinking the DDen 12V-D4 pump...this is of course notably more expensive...if anyone know whether the Hydor/Eheims have matching quality I'm all ears.

Res: DD Single 5 1/4 bay, clear acrylic

Radiator: I don't have a 120mm opening on the case, but the heat output numbers for a 80mm (x80 or x160mm) are all dismal (just sheer surface area I suppose) so I'm thinking either the BlackIce XTreme I or II (120x120 or 120x240)...the question is, is the 120x120 sufficient cooling, even if I were to add a GPU cooler in the future, or would the 120x240 be a better choice with the future in mind? Either way, I'm going to have to cut a nice hole in the top of the case with the fans pulling/pushing (pull is better, right?) up and out.

Tubes/Clamps: standard, no UV or tygon.

I'll be using doubly distilled water, autoclaved for zero initial bio load, a minor amount of algacide and some water wetter...and maybe some UV reactant dye.

Any comments/concerns would be appreciated.

I bought a used Hydor L30 from anandtech bbs and I haven't had a problem with it yet. It runs fairly silently but then again I haven't compared it to any other pump.

You may want to use steam distilled water instead. I don't think distilled water removes minerals and such that can over time build up in certain locations. I don't know if steam distilled water is bio free but the algacide should cover that.

The 120mm BIX should be good. I have a chevette heatercore (5.5"x6") which uses a 120 mm fan/shroud combo. From my understanding, the BIX is basically a heatercore. I have it cooling my amd64 2800, k8t800 chipset, and my 9800xt video card. My cpu temps are ~32C idle, ~35C load and my video card is ~59C load. My ambient temp is ~23C (~74F). My setup has the heatercore take in mostly fresh air and exhaust it into the case. I only have an 80mm case fan and 92mm psu fan to exhaust from the case but I will be installing another 80mm in the back soon. However, I'd say if you can get the BIX2, why not do it? Unless you don't want the extra noise.

 

[ZobarStyl]

You may want to use steam distilled water instead. I don't think distilled water removes minerals and such that can over time build up in certain locations. I don't know if steam distilled water is bio free but the algacide should cover that.

Thanks for you reply, it was helpful...but as for the water, I think you misunderstood...this is water that is steam distilled once then run through an ultrapurification system...I use it in my lab for biological experiments...it doesn't really get purer than this. As for bio-free, that's what the autoclave does...raise the temp to 121 C and up the pressure to prevent boiling; bam, you've killed everything and anything in that water (another advantage of working in a biological facility). However I can't sterilize the components of the setup (would ruin them) so I need some algacide to ensure sterility.

 

[Blain]

Save the $$ on WC and just buy a faster CPU, with a good air cooled HS. A good WC system will cost you.
If you are "planning to do some major OC", you need to cool your CPU and NB chip at least. 😛 That won't be cheap... to do it right.

Use the money to... Buy a faster CPU!

 

[HardWarrior]

Originally posted by: Blain
Save the $$ on WC and just buy a faster CPU, with a good air cooled HS. A good WC system will cost you.
If you are "planning to do some major OC", you need to cool your CPU and NB chip at least. 😛 That won't be cheap... to do it right.

Use the money to... Buy a faster CPU!

Finances are relative to the individual. There's no way you can make the sort of statement you have here and have it be right for anyone but you. We're talking about water-cooling in this thread, which is in the "Cooling and Cases" forum. It's appropriate. The topic has nothing to do with what Blain thinks needs to be cooled and how much it would cost.

Algaecide: It works fine for keeping a loop free of biologics. I'm almost six months on this batch of coolant and it's still crystal clear with no slime anywhere. :thumbsup:

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: Blain
Save the $$ on WC and just buy a faster CPU, with a good air cooled HS. A good WC system will cost you.
If you are "planning to do some major OC", you need to cool your CPU and NB chip at least. 😛 That won't be cheap... to do it right.

Use the money to... Buy a faster CPU!

Finances are relative to the individual. There's no way you can make the sort of statement you have here and have it be right for anyone but you. We're talking about water-cooling in this thread, which is in the "Cooling and Cases" forum. It's appropriate. The topic has nothing to do with what Blain thinks needs to be cooled and how much it would cost.

Algaecide: It works fine for keeping a loop free of biologics. I'm almost six months on this batch of coolant and it's still crystal clear with no slime anywhere. :thumbsup:

You are correct...
Some people just want to OC for the sake of OCing, regardless of benchmarks or total performance. They just want more MHz out of XYZ CPU.
I beg the forgiveness of the members here for painting with such a broad stroke.

 

[HardWarrior]

You're a rare individual Blain. I salute you. 🙂