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Water cooling: worth the money?

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oddity21

Member
I'm going to build myself an E6600 rig soon. Of course, having seen the numbers regarding Conroe's overclocking capabilities, I'll be OC'ing this thing too.

If I'm aiming for, say, 3.5GHz, what sort of cooling equipment do I need? Is liquid cooling worth it? And why have I heard so many bad things about water-cooling kits? Is Northbridge cooling necessary?
 
Been there, done it, went back to air. It was a fun project, but not worth the money. It seems like there is always some little thing that needs attention, and that big mag driven pump so near my drives made me lose sleep. All that really matters is what you want though, if it gets you a couple hundred bucks worth of fun, then do it.
My 146 runs at 2.7Ghz on stock volts and stock cooler, to me, it's not worth $250 to maybe do 3.0.
 
With todays air coolers the only reason to watercool is for absolute silence.

NO its not worth it in your case.

Grab yourself a poor mans water cooler like Big typhoon of half a dozen others and you're set. Most you will gain watercooling is 3-5C and thats with an extreme setup.. which translates into about 50 more Mhz overclock... ie nothing.
 
Conroe is actually a "cool" processor, with it's low power draw and output you should have a lot of flexibility with OC on air (with a good heatsink). Unlike the Netburst P4s, Conroe doesn't pump out the heat like crazy, it is has a lower thermal value than most of the current A64 CPUs (excluding the new low power models, which are insanely overpriced).

Watercooling will probably move to GPU's, as the DX10 flagship chips are rumoured to be in the 175+ watt range. I can't imagine hanging something like an XP-120 on a vid card.
 
I heard you can unplug the CPU fan from the Mobo, put a load on the conroe, and it still wouldn't get hot.
 
you need to decide why you want to do watercooling

I switched from air to WCing and I have enjoyed the project very much..even modded my case...

you have to think out watercooling and spend money on good components..my pump is silent at setting 3....I have a completely internal setup with my P180

I live in FL and saw my load temps drop 8-10C(50-52C to 42/43C) from a big typhoon on the cpu listed..also able to keep my chipset, PWMIC and gpu much cooler

But for me it is now addictive..I bought a new pump and I want to get 120.3 rad..it is a costly addiction...
 
Hmm. Thanks for the recommendations. Guess I'll go for high-end air cooling instead of liquid cooling.

More specific tips would be really appreciated. I've got roughly $1,500 to spend on the things inside my case.
 
Originally posted by: oddity21
Guess I'll go for high-end air cooling...
Click to expand...
Oh, okay, N/M, I get it!

That's supposed to be an oxymoron, right?

Bwahahaha! Good one! :thumbsup:
 
The cool thing about watercooling is the looks... UV Reactive coolant and tubing etc. You can make some nice looking cases with it.

If you're like me and prefer a sleek, high tech looking case instead of a fancy lighted up case then it wouldn't make a difference in that regard. Sure you can get better cooling from water, but there is some maintenance as well. You should flush your system and change the coolant every few months to keep algae from growing inside the pump, res, and tubing. There's also the pesky problem with a leek popping up here or there. Even after a 24hour leek test you can still have leekage later on. Pinch a tube and create a small crack and that's all it takes.

It's cheaper and easier to do air that's for sure, but a nice water setup makes a sweet looking mod.
 
water cooling is either about extreme overclocking or silence. unless your overclock beats a chip that costs 200+ more than what you paid its not worth it for that kinda reason.
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
With todays air coolers the only reason to watercool is for absolute silence.

NO its not worth it in your case.

Grab yourself a poor mans water cooler like Big typhoon of half a dozen others and you're set. Most you will gain watercooling is 3-5C and thats with an extreme setup.. which translates into about 50 more Mhz overclock... ie nothing.
Click to expand...


I have to respectfully disagree with you Zebo. Here is my experience going from high-end air-cooling to a mediocre custom H2O setup. The thermal output of a Conroe is less than an X2, but you'll still see nice benefits going to watercooling. This is especially true if you throw the gpu in the loop.
 
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
water cooling is either about extreme overclocking or silence. unless your overclock beats a chip that costs 200+ more than what you paid its not worth it for that kinda reason.
Click to expand...

Water Cooling is about good overclocking, heavily chilled solutions is about great overclocking (I use Ethanol at -40), and phase change is about extreme overclocking. Then there's the liquid nitrogen and dual cascade (-100C and lower) who only really care about braking records not about having a usable system.
 
Originally posted by: Elfear
Originally posted by: Zebo
With todays air coolers the only reason to watercool is for absolute silence.

NO its not worth it in your case.

Grab yourself a poor mans water cooler like Big typhoon of half a dozen others and you're set. Most you will gain watercooling is 3-5C and thats with an extreme setup.. which translates into about 50 more Mhz overclock... ie nothing.
Click to expand...


I have to respectfully disagree with you Zebo. Here is my experience going from high-end air-cooling to a mediocre custom H2O setup. The thermal output of a Conroe is less than an X2, but you'll still see nice benefits going to watercooling. This is especially true if you throw the gpu in the loop.
Click to expand...

Mediocre? That heater core you're using has a larger surface area than any after market designed watercooling radiator. You are using two very large throw 38mm wide fans. I would not call that mediocre dispite your savvy economy shopping... Don't let price fool you your system disipates heat better than any swiftech kit.

And what did you get for that? 10C compared to an you older XP120, don't you think a Big typhoon would close that gap?

I estimated 5C because that's what I got from the air move using a swiftech 2x120mm kit and I have GPU in the loop. So for me, from a temperture standpoint, it was not worth it. It's also a PITA to change any hardware. Have to bleed system - hopefully don't spill and reassemble and fill back up. Just to change a processor is like an hour long process. It's expensive - my kit's about $300 compared to good GPU and CPU aftermarket HSFs of about $90 total. Three times as much for water... all for 5-10C? I don't think so.

However, it's silent, which air can't be i've tried, which makes it worthwhile to me..

I think it's important we water coolers make aware the dangers and costs and not try and hide anything just because we do it. That does'nt nessesarly make it right for everyone.

 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Mediocre? That heater core you're using has a larger surface area than any after market designed watercooling radiator. You are using two very large throw 38mm wide fans. I would not call that mediocre dispite your savvy economy shopping... Don't let price fool you your system disipates heat better than any swiftech kit.

And what did you get for that? 10C compared to an you older XP120, don't you think a Big typhoon would close that gap?

I estimated 5C because that's what I got from the air move using a swiftech 2x120mm kit and I have GPU in the loop. So for me, from a temperture standpoint, it was not worth it. It's also a PITA to change any hardware. Have to bleed system - hopefully don't spill and reassemble and fill back up. Just to change a processor is like an hour long process. It's expensive - my kit's about $300 compared to good GPU and CPU aftermarket HSFs of about $90 total. Three times as much for water... all for 5-10C? I don't think so.

However, it's silent, which air can't be i've tried, which makes it worthwhile to me..

I think it's important we water coolers make aware the dangers and costs and not try and hide anything just because we do it. That does'nt nessesarly make it right for everyone.
Click to expand...
I don't really care much about silence. Now throw in additional expense and difficulties with hardware changing. Ah. Air it is.
 
A high quality water setup should have you at about a 10C delta over ambient temps. The bonus is that you can add a sick overclock to it, without increasing noise or temps. Water can carry a lot more heat away from your components than air.

I'll be doing water for Conroe, in hopes of hitting a stable 4.0Ghz. Looks like I'll be doing most of my shopping at Petra's Tech Shop. They have some high quality stuff preconfigured into kits. Good way to get going for less than $300 without wasting $150 on a Bigwater (and $150 on a setup like that is a 100% loss for dollar) or some other garbage setup that won't get you any better temps than air.

Water setups don't just get you better temps. GOOD water setups, however, will make any air solution look like junk. Of course, you'll pay for it. I'd guess that around $200 would be a minimum for getting decent stuff after the research and shopping I've done.
 
I'm getting the Asus motherboard, and the e6600 processor. Which are the best water coolers out there? I'm willing to spend about 100-400 on it. As long as it's silent and cools real good.

thanks alot!!
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: Elfear
Originally posted by: Zebo
With todays air coolers the only reason to watercool is for absolute silence.

NO its not worth it in your case.

Grab yourself a poor mans water cooler like Big typhoon of half a dozen others and you're set. Most you will gain watercooling is 3-5C and thats with an extreme setup.. which translates into about 50 more Mhz overclock... ie nothing.
Click to expand...


I have to respectfully disagree with you Zebo. Here is my experience going from high-end air-cooling to a mediocre custom H2O setup. The thermal output of a Conroe is less than an X2, but you'll still see nice benefits going to watercooling. This is especially true if you throw the gpu in the loop.
Click to expand...

Mediocre? That heater core you're using has a larger surface area than any after market designed watercooling radiator. You are using two very large throw 38mm wide fans. I would not call that mediocre dispite your savvy economy shopping... Don't let price fool you your system disipates heat better than any swiftech kit.

And what did you get for that? 10C compared to an you older XP120, don't you think a Big typhoon would close that gap?

I estimated 5C because that's what I got from the air move using a swiftech 2x120mm kit and I have GPU in the loop. So for me, from a temperture standpoint, it was not worth it. It's also a PITA to change any hardware. Have to bleed system - hopefully don't spill and reassemble and fill back up. Just to change a processor is like an hour long process. It's expensive - my kit's about $300 compared to good GPU and CPU aftermarket HSFs of about $90 total. Three times as much for water... all for 5-10C? I don't think so.

However, it's silent, which air can't be i've tried, which makes it worthwhile to me..

I think it's important we water coolers make aware the dangers and costs and not try and hide anything just because we do it. That does'nt nessesarly make it right for everyone.
Click to expand...

While it is better than any swiftech kit it doesn't change how much he bought it for. With his economy shopping he dropped 10C off air while also cooling his gpu and cpu. GPU usually drops much more than cpu in the first place so it's quite viable. It's still 120.2 However the depth may require the need for his 38mm fans. I big typhoon close a 10C gap? Since when? I'd say 2-3C at most. The XP-120 isn't a bad heatsink... There are way to many factors but I'd still doubt 5C. What fans are you using???

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=10&artpage=1822&articID=419

Xp-120 loses by one degree... It really depends...

Also a decent water cooling kit for cpu/gpu maye only cost $200. A gpu cooler $35 depends.

CPU cooler is like $50 and add another $15 for a fan. So $90...

Radiator mayeb be like $45 the MCR-220, DD Mag II LE $40(not the greatest pump but for $40 it's a good price, though if you had more money a DDC Ultra or pro for a bit less), CPu block Whitewater $30-$40 max, Maze 4 $45, $20 fans. I'd suggest yate loons as they are $4 at jab tech. I estimtaed $15 for the air cooling fan because people usually spend more for a better fan with air cooling. And then masterkleer tubing and clamps a y connector. It's more work but for $200 it'll drop your temps a decent amount especially on the gpu. A 120.3 radiator for $60 is viable if you up your budget too and will also produce better temps. Around $200 too... A heatercore and good thick 38mm fans are very good with a shroud. Heatercore will cost less fans cost a bit more but it'll cool better but be louder.

 
Praxis1452 I've watercooled 8 rigs. You're not telling me anything new. You fail to recognige the risk involed including galvanic corrsion and thermal cracking from using cheap blocks. Fail to see issues with leaking cheap pumps or low flow ones like DDmagII which will kill the delta in temps from air. Or The work involved and ugly look of heater core and homemade setups. Therefore I'd never recommend going cheap. $300 is a minimum price to doing it right and there's still risk and the PITA of changing gear.. Not worth it except for those who want really silent or an extra 100-150Mhz out of an OC IMO. The new HSF with heat pipes are basically just watercooling themselves just a little less effecint. I stand by 5C because that's what I've seen Big typoon vs my water setup with 2x120mm fans. They are the same Yate loons you recommend.
 
Originally posted by: Kwint Sommer
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
water cooling is either about extreme overclocking or silence. unless your overclock beats a chip that costs 200+ more than what you paid its not worth it for that kinda reason.
Click to expand...

Water Cooling is about good overclocking, heavily chilled solutions is about great overclocking (I use Ethanol at -40), and phase change is about extreme overclocking. Then there's the liquid nitrogen and dual cascade (-100C and lower) who only really care about braking records not about having a usable system.
Click to expand...

yea iknow i just didn't feel like mentioning it when we were talking about whether somehting was worth the money since that stuff is off the charts. water cooling is extreme because if something fails...well.. u'll be saying uh oh!😉
 
Originally posted by: Zebo
Praxis1452 I've watercooled 8 rigs. You're not telling me anything new. You fail to recognige the risk involed including galvanic corrsion and thermal cracking from using cheap blocks. Fail to see issues with leaking cheap pumps or low flow ones like DDmagII which will kill the delta in temps from air. Or The work involved and ugly look of heater core and homemade setups. Therefore I'd never recommend going cheap. $300 is a minimum price to doing it right and there's still risk and the PITA of changing gear.. Not worth it except for those who want really silent or an extra 100-150Mhz out of an OC IMO. The new HSF with heat pipes are basically just watercooling themselves just a little less effecint. I stand by 5C because that's what I've seen Big typoon vs my water setup with 2x120mm fans. They are the same Yate loons you recommend.
Click to expand...

Galvanic corrosion if your using aluminum. None of the parts I suggest use aluminum. Thermal cracking... it depends on what. I've only ever seen one storm crack. Delrin is a pretty strong material. acrylic may however. How many maze 4's have you seen cracked? I think the risk is pretty small and isolated. Maybe a bad batch? DD Mag II I think goes around 7 feet of head from tests. Compared to a MCP655 which is like 10.5... It's not that slow at all. Heatercores are ugly yes. But that does not effect the outcome of the temps at all. Nor does it have a big risk in looking ugly...

There is always risk. I see the new massive heatpipe coolers and there is the risk they'll break your mobo... I mean cmon the tower hs's are massive.

I still totally disagree with your big typhoon. You using a yate loon and with your water setup your only gaining 5c? what is your setup?

For changing a cpu could you not just take out the screws and put the waterblock down and replace the cpu then screw it back in. Since when do you have th redo the whole loop? Of course you could use a t-line to drain.

While I would agree that most of the benefit of water cooling is for silence I would say it'd be worth it.

For $300 would only be for very high end setups. Of course I'm talking 1 cpu and gpu. another gpu would need another $50 atleast.

A thermochill, DDC ultra, MP05 SP Le, MP-1 with everything else would only be like $350. That's about as good as you can get...

edit: I looked at your swiftech kit... it looks like 3/8 tubing too...
 
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
Originally posted by: Kwint Sommer
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
water cooling is either about extreme overclocking or silence. unless your overclock beats a chip that costs 200+ more than what you paid its not worth it for that kinda reason.
Click to expand...

Water Cooling is about good overclocking, heavily chilled solutions is about great overclocking (I use Ethanol at -40), and phase change is about extreme overclocking. Then there's the liquid nitrogen and dual cascade (-100C and lower) who only really care about braking records not about having a usable system.
Click to expand...

yea iknow i just didn't feel like mentioning it when we were talking about whether somehting was worth the money since that stuff is off the charts. water cooling is extreme because if something fails...well.. u'll be saying uh oh!😉
Click to expand...



I've had my water cooling system leak everywhere 3 times in two years and no casualties. The important thing is that you don't pull on any cables until you turn off the computer and if you do get it wet carefully dry it with paper towels and wait 24hours for anything remaining to evaporate. It only short circuits when it is both wet and electrified.

Further, I built my initial water cooling system off of ebay for a little under $100. I made a few upgrades over the years but they were just minor tweaks. Eventually I had a great idea to use the water cooling system to cary a subzero liquid around and to cool it by running the liquid over a window unit's evaporator. So for another $150 and countless hours of work I have my super hot Prescott Socket 478 at 4.3 GHz and running around -10C. When I get settled in at MIT I'll beef up the AC and change it over to R404 or R290 (propane) so that it can hit -70C. A subzero system isn't that pricey (if hard pressed I could do it for under $200) but it will take a lot of time effort and experimenting.

With the low wattage on the Conroes I would say go with air unless you want subzero temps. Really low temps may let Conroes hit 5GHz but the E6600 seems limited by motherboards at the moment so I don't see it going much above 450FSB regardless of temp.
 
Zebo: Can you pull your WCing loop out a complete loop....I made I could do this and do not need to refill the loop..some air moves abit becasue of my T-Line...but I can change hardware without much hassle...this includes gpu and cpu

I would not necessarily count on 10C delta ove ambient at load...

My ambient is between 24-26C, idle at 32/33C and load at 42/43C
 
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