Water Cooling v. Air Cooling in new build?

HardWarrior · May 18, 2006

:laugh:

ruffilb · May 18, 2006

Here's the thing - I in no way DOUBT the effectiveness of water cooling, I just doubt its economy. That is, I don't think that, for a $2k rig, spending $570 on cases and cooling is a good idea...

Another question I have - how long can I use one water cooling setup? If I can put the same set of components through several years woth of computing, even after I upgrade, it might just be a viable option.

Also, please critique the choices I posted for water cooling on the first page, or offer good air-cooling alternatives.

m1ldslide1 · May 18, 2006

Originally posted by: aigomorla
Where the hell are you going at with numbers saying air will come close?

Well for starters I don't have the pimpest air system just yet. I didn't say that I did - just that you can get close on air. My rear exhuast 120mm pushes 52cfm, which is half of what I'll have once I get around to ordering the new exhaust fan. Given how my temps dropped about 2-3 C when I installed the 52, it seems reasonable that when I double it I can expect my temps to drop another 2-3 C.

Therefore, mine would be 27 C idle and 37 load at 29 C ambient temp, versus your 22 idle and 28 load at 22C ambient room temp. Given that my entire setup costs under $100, is it worth $200 extra to get 5C less at idle and 9C less at load, while my room is 7C hotter than yours?

Maybe we're at different tax brackets but my answer is firmly NO. There's something to be said for getting the performance you want at a cheaper price. I'm glad to hear that your delta is smaller than mine, but my OC is fine with me as is my gaming performance and noise level.

That's why I responded to the OP the way I did - the self described "total noob at water cooling" looking to spend not too much more than he would on air warranted my post. He didn't mention that noise was a concern, and I amended my post to reflect this obvious drawback.

HardWarrior · May 18, 2006

Originally posted by: ruffilb
Here's the thing - I in no way DOUBT the effectiveness of water cooling, I just doubt its economy. That is, I don't think that, for a $2k rig, spending $570 on cases and cooling is a good idea...

Then you've made your decision based on your budget, which is good too. As I said, good water-cooling isn't an economy option.

HardWarrior · May 18, 2006

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
Maybe we're at different tax brackets but my answer is firmly NO.

Which is just fine. I don't think anyone here has demanded that you spend you money on anything you don't want too.

There's something to be said for getting the performance you want at a cheaper price.

This is where you start to loose it. Your priorities simply don't transfer to other people. The OP asked about water, not for an personal economics primer. You could have stayed firmly in safe territory, and good posting practives, by offering your experiences with air. I don't think anyone would have taken exception with that. You instead choose to denegrate something you know nothing about just to bolster your argument.

I'm glad to hear that your delta is smaller than mine, but my OC is fine with me as is my gaming performance and noise level.

And my watered rig is just fine with me. See how that works?

He didn't mention that noise was a concern, and I amended my post to reflect this obvious drawback.

Choosing a quiet configuration isn't a "drawback." It's a design choice. See how THAT works? If you're going to offer advice I'd suggest you remember that it isn't all about you.

ruffilb · May 18, 2006

At this point can anyone

A) Recommend a good air cooling setup that performs well and is relatively quiet.

and/or

B) Critique my choice of water cooling components. Even if I'm not going to go with water cooling right now, it's something I'd like to know about.

VballCoach · May 18, 2006

if you want high performance, neither h20 or air will be silent. you will be able to get much more silence with h20 with the same performance as with air, tho. But high performance and silence can't be had...they'll always be some amount of noise.

as for the 7/16" tubing over 1/2" barbs necessitating clamps....I don't buy it. Since I use PushOn barbs there's no chance for leaks.

I've been running my daughter's pc w/c'd for 2 years now. no leaks. I only use distilled also. and I've only replaced the water once so far. also, I did it for way cheap...
Marineland s660 Powerhead - $2 garage find brand new in box
4" conduit box - free
3/8"tubing/brass PushOn barbs/epoxy - free from work
DIY all copper pin grid block CPU only - $2 - metal scrap yard bin pick of 3/8" copper bar stock
[drill press/bits/Rotozip/lubricant - free use at work]
BIM micro - $18 bought used on another forum
2x92mm fans - $4 for LED one[inside case] 1 free - removed from old Compaq psu
DIY resin shrouds - $9 for resin got @ Depot
[panty hose/spraypaint/1/4" plexi - free from home and work]

So total = $35 not including time invested..which was a lot especially for the DIY block and shrouds. Installation was a little hard as it is in an older and smaller HP case[ha! another trash pic]...I repainted it metallic blue and black and clearcoated with Urethane.

so if you have the patience, tools, and time, h20 can be done cheaply and correctly.
And my daughter's pc is DEAD quiet..and I'm a silence hound!! I am still totally impressed with it to this day. The passive sinked ATI 9600 really helps too.

here's some pics of my newest pc -New h20 Rig pic 1
New Rig pic 2
New Rig pic 3

AND this is a lot quieter than my last rig...due to the yate loons.

as someone else said, check out the other forums for all your info.
here's a link to one of them - watercoolingforum

also, there's great deals to be had in all of these forums' classified's!!

ruffilb · May 18, 2006

Originally posted by: VballCoach
if you want high performance, neither h20 or air will be silent. you will be able to get much more silence with h20 with the same performance as with air, tho. But high performance and silence can't be had...they'll always be some amount of noise.

as for the 7/16" tubing over 1/2" barbs necessitating clamps....I don't buy it. Since I use PushOn barbs there's no chance for leaks.

I've been running my daughter's pc w/c'd for 2 years now. no leaks. I only use distilled also. and I've only replaced the water once so far. also, I did it for way cheap...
Marineland s660 Powerhead - $2 garage find brand new in box
4" conduit box - free
3/8"tubing/brass PushOn barbs/epoxy - free from work
DIY all copper pin grid block CPU only - $2 - metal scrap yard bin pick of 3/8" copper bar stock
[drill press/bits/Rotozip/lubricant - free use at work]
BIM micro - $18 bought used on another forum
2x92mm fans - $4 for LED one[inside case] 1 free - removed from old Compaq psu
DIY resin shrouds - $9 for resin got @ Depot
[panty hose/spraypaint/1/4" plexi - free from home and work]

So total = $35 not including time invested..which was a lot especially for the DIY block and shrouds. Installation was a little hard as it is in an older and smaller HP case[ha! another trash pic]...I repainted it metallic blue and black and clearcoated with Urethane.

so if you have the patience, tools, and time, h20 can be done cheaply and correctly.
And my daughter's pc is DEAD quiet..and I'm a silence hound!! I am still totally impressed with it to this day. The passive sinked ATI 9600 really helps too.

here's some pics of my newest pc -New h20 Rig pic 1
New Rig pic 2
New Rig pic 3

AND this is a lot quieter than my last rig...due to the yate loons.

as someone else said, check out the other forums for all your info.
here's a link to one of them - watercoolingforum

also, there's great deals to be had in all of these forums' classified's!!

The problem is, although that is quite cheap, my time is probably worth enough that it doesn't justify my doing it myself... not to mention the fact that I'm a noob, and so I'd take massive amounts of time doing it.

Thanks for the link to that forum, BTW. I put up a post there.

VballCoach · May 18, 2006

The problem is, although that is quite cheap, my time is probably worth enough that it doesn't justify my doing it myself... not to mention the fact that I'm a noob, and so I'd take massive amounts of time doing it.

Thanks for the link to that forum, BTW. I put up a post there.

LOL. that's why I do it at work...have lots of down time ..no way can I do it at home..don't even have a garage or work bench/area to do anything.

HardWarrior · May 18, 2006

Originally posted by: VballCoach
if you want high performance, neither h20 or air will be silent.

There's only one silent rig I know of and that's the Zalman heatpipe case. To say that anything less is "silent" sort of answers a question that hasn't been asked. 😉 Yes, there ARE water configurations that can be fairly quiet and perform VERY well. It's all about what FRU's you pick, and what the user thinks "quiet" is.

VballCoach · May 18, 2006

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: VballCoach
if you want high performance, neither h20 or air will be silent.

Click to expand...

There's only one silent rig I know of and that's the Zalman heatpipe case. To say that anything less is "silent" sort of answers a question that hasn't been asked. 😉 Yes, there ARE water configurations that can be fairly quiet and perform VERY well. It's all about what FRU's you pick, and what the user thinks "quiet" is.

yep! silence is and has always been 'subjective'. 🙂

ruffilb · May 18, 2006

Originally posted by: VballCoach

Originally posted by: HardWarrior

Originally posted by: VballCoach
if you want high performance, neither h20 or air will be silent.

Click to expand...

There's only one silent rig I know of and that's the Zalman heatpipe case. To say that anything less is "silent" sort of answers a question that hasn't been asked. 😉 Yes, there ARE water configurations that can be fairly quiet and perform VERY well. It's all about what FRU's you pick, and what the user thinks "quiet" is.

Click to expand...

yep! silence is and has always been 'subjective'. 🙂

I wish there were some way for me to figure out what my own impression of "silent" is at say, 4 feet.

Hmm, it's physics time!

HardWarrior · May 19, 2006

Look around here, dude. Lots of people are freaked by PC noise.

ruffilb · May 20, 2006

Water Cooling v. Air Cooling in new build?

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