Watch the U.S. back down to avoid war with China

[fskimospy]

Our side acting like nothings changed is part of the problem.... things HAVE changed and drastically. Lets hope we don't learn that the hard way.

All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not in Taiwan right now.

I would agree that things have changed in the sense that containing China is more important to the US than it was when the policy was originally enacted but that just strengthens the case for ignoring dumb Chinese demands.

 

[K1052]

That China has made massive investments and improvements in military technology is beyond doubt. How those systems perform and general Chinese military proficiency is very much an open question. Like the Russians the Chinese are not afraid to embellish the stats on their systems among other similar bad habits.

You really don't want to find out the answers to those questions by opening a major war against the world's preeminent military power.

 

[Captante]

I would agree that things have changed in the sense that containing China is more important to the US than it was when the policy was originally enacted but that just strengthens the case for ignoring dumb Chinese demands.

I understand where you're coming from but the fact is that we won't be "containing" China at all for much longer.... we're on a slightly longer version of the same path the British Empire took with the US.

We've allowed a huge percentage of our mission-critical tech industries to concentrate on an island that is Chinese territory and now everyone is somehow surprised that we may end up getting screwed over by that move.

 

[Captante]

You really don't want to find out the answers to those questions by opening a major war against the world's preeminent military power.

There's zero doubt that the American military would ultimately wipe the floor with China's.... but at tremendous cost.

This isn't Saddam's Iraq or even North Korea with low-tech nukes .... China is extremely dangerous and not as far behind in technology as many choose to believe.

 

[K1052]

China is extremely dangerous and not as far behind in technology as many choose to believe.

Per recent Russian experience this perception is quite possibly much more valuable untested than it is tested.

 

[fskimospy]

I understand where you're coming from but the fact is that we won't be "containing" China at all for much longer.... we're on a slightly longer version of the same path the British Empire took with the US.

I doubt this very much, but I guess only time will tell. China has some very serious problems on the horizon.

We've allowed a huge percentage of our mission-critical tech industries to concentrate on an island that is Chinese territory and now everyone is somehow surprised that we may end up getting screwed over by that move.

Well it's not Chinese territory in reality.

 

[Captante]

Well it's not Chinese territory in reality.

According to official US policy I have to disagree.


EDIT: Pelosi is in Taiwan now... landed about 45 minutes ago.

 

[Fenixgoon]

According to official US policy I have to disagree.


EDIT: Pelosi is in Taiwan now... landed about 45 minutes ago.

I was just about to post this. no planes shot down, no WW3.

 

[fskimospy]

According to official US policy I have to disagree.


EDIT: Pelosi is in Taiwan now... landed about 45 minutes ago.

If you broke the laws of the PRC in Taiwan could the PRC arrest you there? Is the PRC able to determine the political, economic, or military policies of that island? No? Doesn’t sound like Chinese territory to me.

 

[Asterox]

If China's plan really is some sort of massive loss war of attrition against the US and Taiwan over a contested strait they are going to be very, very sad when they try to enact that plan.

Quantitative superiority is much much less effective than it once was due to the precision and lethality of modern weapons.

Do you remember what happened in Afganistan?The US has all the modern technology(HIMARS etc), and you now how it ended up.

People need to understand, sooner or later China will put its paw on Taiwan=it is inevitable.It is a territory very close to China, or to make it clearer no one wants(in reality) to go to direct war against China.

 

[K1052]

If you broke the laws of the PRC in Taiwan could the PRC arrest you there? Is the PRC able to determine the political, economic, or military policies of that island? No? Doesn’t sound like Chinese territory to me.

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

 

[Captante]

I was just about to post this. no planes shot down, no WW3.

Neither of these extremes was really my concern.... but it IS good news!

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

Explain that to Xi not me!

 

[fskimospy]

Do you remember what happened in Afganistan?The US has all the modern technology(HIMARS etc), and you now how it ended up.

People need to understand, sooner or later China will put its paw on Taiwan=it is inevitable.It is a territory very close to China, or to make it clearer no one wants(in reality) to go to direct war against China.

This further proves my point - the Taliban did not win because of their superior numbers, in fact they were always heavily outnumbered. Had the Taliban attempted some sort of mass offensive the type of which China would have to do in order to conquer Taiwan they would have been annihilated. Their tactics adapted to our superior firepower and precision precisely because they didn't have to take and hold territory against a hostile population.

 

[rommelrommel]

According to official US policy I have to disagree.

That's a pretty facile understanding on the One China policy.

 

[rommelrommel]

I'm sure you are awaiting trial.

Ah "no u," the height of intellect.

 

[kage69]

If China's plan really is some sort of massive loss war of attrition against the US and Taiwan over a contested strait they are going to be very, very sad when they try to enact that plan.

Pretty much exactly what I've been saying to the people who think China will steam roll Taiwan like a mini Desert Storm. Smart munitions, drones, modern cruise missiles, probably a shit load of mines, all used by a people fighting for their right to exist and live free. Would be more of a walk through hell then a walk in the park, not that the CCP would care.

Quantitative superiority is much much less effective than it once was due to the precision and lethality of modern weapons.

Quite so, that's been true for awhile. Multitudes of aborigine warriors on different continents discovered their superior numbers and spiritual protections were rebuked by smokeless powder and .30 lead. Entire companies of troops in Korea would have been overrun and killed were it not for the proximity fuse. The vast Russian war machine has largely been eating shit for 5 months thanks to high tech Western weapons. Ukrainian resolve has been shown to be quite potent. I expect we'd see the same from the Taiwanese. The KMT took all the military talent with them when they left for Taiwan, and that military culture has the US and Japan as benefactors. Xi Xingping should take his own advice about playing with fire.

 

[Captante]

That's a pretty facile understanding on the One China policy.

Also "on paper" at least a pretty accurate one.

 

[K1052]

Do you remember what happened in Afganistan?The US has all the modern technology(HIMARS etc), and you now how it ended up.

People need to understand, sooner or later China will put its paw on Taiwan=it is inevitable.It is a territory very close to China, or to make it clearer no one wants(in reality) to go to direct war against China.

How's that going for Russia against Ukraine who is using a tiny fraction of the west's available arsenal in a conventional conflict?

Anybody saying "but the Afghan occupation" when there is a straight up conventional fight between militaries really should take a beat.

 

[Captante]

Pretty much exactly what I've been saying to the people who think China will steam roll Taiwan like a mini Desert Storm.

The thing about Desert-Storm is that it was on a big, flat and wide-open desert where it's super-easy to hit/destroy anything you aim at. (Ukraine's contested area's are largely flat and open too)

How well did that strategy translate into the Balkans or Afghanistan's heavily mountainous terrain for example? (it didn't)

 

[Juiblex]

PLA Air Force's Su-35 fighter jet(s) is crossing the Taiwan Straits: report


Military (globaltimes.cn)

 

[Brainonska511]

Why should we fight China? Why should our young people be cannon fodder for Egos? Nancy doesn't need to go to Taiwan for any reason other than to provoke a conflict. STUPID.

If China is getting it's knickers in a twist, that's on China. There is only an "incident" because they decided to make a big deal out of it.

Also, relatedly, I love the imperialist apologia that narrowly defines imperialism as "anything the US does" while being perfectly fine with the archaic and extremely imperialist idea of "spheres of influence."

 

[fskimospy]

The thing about Desert-Storm is that it was on a big, flat and wide-open desert where it's super-easy to hit/destroy anything you aim at. (Ukraine's contested area's are largely flat and open too)

How well did that strategy translate into the Balkans heavily mountainous terrain for example? (it didn't)

The thing about invading over a strait is that it's a big, flat, wide open expanse where it's super easy to hit/destroy anything you aim at.

Some deception tactics are effective at lessening the impact of US airpower but you can't invade and occupy a place while hiding - that's not how that works.

Also, the vast majority of Taiwan's population lives in a relatively flat area.

 

[fskimospy]

That China has made massive investments and improvements in military technology is beyond doubt. How those systems perform and general Chinese military proficiency is very much an open question. Like the Russians the Chinese are not afraid to embellish the stats on their systems among other similar bad habits.

You really don't want to find out the answers to those questions by opening a major war against the world's preeminent military power.

Yes, the ONE positive thing for the US out of two decades of endless war is we know our shit works.

 

[Captante]

Also, the vast majority of Taiwan's population lives in a relatively flat area.

However China has at least some high-tech weaponry where Iraq was running a WWII-level military plus they're right there not on the other side of the world like us.

I can't see China "winning" a shooting-war with the west over Taiwan but I can see everyone involved losing.

 

[Pens1566]

Do you remember what happened in Afganistan?The US has all the modern technology(HIMARS etc), and you now how it ended up.

People need to understand, sooner or later China will put its paw on Taiwan=it is inevitable.It is a territory very close to China, or to make it clearer no one wants(in reality) to go to direct war against China.

Fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan/Pakistan border regions is a very different type of conflict than what would happen if/when we exchange fire with China. Complete polar opposites in terms of what the conflicts would look like.