was this shooting justified?

[Jeeebus]

Is nobody considering the possibility that the kids might re-animate as zombies? Shooting her in the head was the best defense against zombies and/or any other horror/suspense movie where you're not actually sure the perp is dead. Guy could have gone back to his turkey and had his throat ripped out minutes later.

 

[boomhower]

He was justified in the shooting, but not justified in the killing. Someone breaks into my house while I am there and there's a pretty decent chance they are leaving with more holes than they can came in with. However, the law gives you the right to use deadly force. i.e. you can use deadly force to stop the threat. It does not give you the right to use deadly force to stop the threat and then murder them. Now if they had a gun and were trying to return fire or somehow remained a deadly threat then he could have been OK. What he did was 2nd degree murder all day long, self admitted at that.

In short, the shooting was justified but the intentional killing after the threat was stopped was not. Poll isn't clear enough so not answering.

 

[1sikbITCH]

What part of stay off the goddamn lawn did they not understand?

Known criminal KNOWN TO BE ROBBING HOUSES IN THE AREA robs the wrong house and finally gets caught. No compassion here. The girl stupid enough to rob houses with this guy? No compassion here either. She didn't just wait in the car, she robbed a house.

Old man went too far but I'm not really upset about it.

 

[Broheim]

the shooting was justified, the murder wasn't, not that I'll lose any sleep over it though.

two fewer scumbags in the genepool.

 

[shortylickens]

Thats sounds more like an execution than self-defense. And the guy flat out stated he wanted them dead, he said nothing of protecting himself.

Yeah, he needs to do jail time.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

In America we don't put people in jail for killing people that break into out houses. I feel bad for these kids and their families but they devalued their own lives when they decided to enter a stranger's house without permission. This is really a sad case all around, but the old man was well within his rights to not only shoot them but also to kill them. Even with them shot his safety was is serious question. What if he went to call the police and the girl got up stabbed him in the back? I'm sorry guys, I want to feel sympathy for the suspects, but he did nothing illegal.

 

[Druidx]

The article says deadly force was allowed but he exceeded it. How do you exceed the use of deadly force?

 

[Scotteq]

The article says deadly force was allowed but he exceeded it. How do you exceed the use of deadly force?

In most places, the requirement to us DF is the situation should be such that a reasonable person would be in fear of (themselves or a person under their protection) being killed or maimed by their assailant. One can easily argue a couple unarmed teenagers breaking into your basement doesn't meet the criteria.

Indeed, the story says the homeowner sat one of the teens in a chair before pumping bullets into her. Here in NJ, that would be capital murder. Not Self Defense.

 

[waggy]

The article says deadly force was allowed but he exceeded it. How do you exceed the use of deadly force?

agreed. you can't exceed deadly force. dead is dead.

What he did was murder. if he shot them once to stop them and they died big deal. he shot them over and over. then put the gun under the chin of one of them and fired.

she wasn't going to get up. he was safe. but he excuted them.

now i have no sympathy for the kids. they made the choice to break into the house.

 

[dabuddha]

guess those two cockroaches won't be robbing anymore houses. BTW wrong forum

 

[xanis]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. The homeowner seems a little nuts, but at the same time, I have a hard time finding sympathy for people that think it's okay to break into others' houses and commit a robbery.

 

[Linflas]

Given that he only left himself as the one to tell the story it was pretty stupid of him to admit he wanted them dead and that the girl laughing at him pissed him off enough to finish her off. Once they were no threat to him he should have just called the police and let them clean up the mess. On the other hand given our screwed up civil liability system he may have been afraid they would end up with whatever little he has in some future lawsuit.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Justified in shooting them...in executing them, no.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Given that he only left himself as the one to tell the story it was pretty stupid of him to admit he wanted them dead and that the girl laughing at him pissed him off enough to finish her off. Once they were no threat to him he should have just called the police and let them clean up the mess. On the other hand given our screwed up civil liability system he may have been afraid they would end up with whatever little he has in some future lawsuit.

That the guy admitting to this is kinda why I tend to believe his story...he's a nutcase.

 

[mizzou]

Here's what he has going for him.

It's clear two adults(teenage adults?) committed a felony by burglarizing his home with him inside.

He had the right to shoot them under the (castle doctrine?) Under this, I don't think he can be legally prosecuted for what happened, so I'm kind of confused how they are charging him with 2nd degree murder. He can be held liable in civil court however.

To every gun-owner, you have the RIGHT to defend yourself and shoot someone if it is REASONABLE that you are in jeopardy of serious physical injury or death.

You shoot until "the threat is eliminated", for gods sake, don't ever say how many rounds you used, whether or not you shot them in the head for an execution, etc. just say, "I shot until the threat was eliminated"

What the fuck was this guy thinking, telling investigators he shot them as they laid motionless on the ground, and then not even CALL the police until the next day! I can just see him sitting in his rocking chair watching the blood ooze out of their bodies, and then just smile as if he had the last laugh.


Ahhh...here's the castle doctrine info in MN. http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/141497673.html

 

[bignateyk]

No sympathy for the "victims", but also think the guy went a little overboard. Had he just shot them both and called the cops right away he would have been in the clear.

Sounds like he shot them both and then rage killed them, and spent a day trying to figure out how to cover it up.

Also, how dumb does the second girl have to be to come downstairs after hearing gunshots?

 

[mizzou]

No sympathy for the "victims", but also think the guy went a little overboard. Had he just shot them both and called the cops right away he would have been in the clear.

Sounds like he shot them both and then rage killed them, and spent a day trying to figure out how to cover it up.

$10.00 he did much much worse then what is being reported in the newspapers...

Just think about it, what the fuck did he do with all that time with those bodies in his basement. I seriously doubt he just went about his normal routine.

 

[bignateyk]

Also, the house looks like a dilapidated piece of shit. There is no reason why anyone would try to rob it. It almost seems like it was a fucked up highschool prank to break into this guys house and one-up the previous break in. The guy looks nuts too. It makes me think the highschool kids just messed with him for years and he finally snapped.

 

[Juddog]

Do I believe the kids deserved what they got? Sure did - breaking into the same house repeatedly deserves to get you put down, the only reason people are having sympathy for the kids is that they are young, white, and good looking. Stick an ugly black man in the photos and people would be all over the place congratulating the guy.

 

[waggy]

Also, the house looks like a dilapidated piece of shit. There is no reason why anyone would try to rob it. It almost seems like it was a fucked up highschool prank to break into this guys house and one-up the previous break in. The guy looks nuts too. It makes me think the highschool kids just messed with him for years and he finally snapped.

even less reason to have any sympathy for them. in fact you make a good case on why it was justified.

you fuck with someone like this and bully them eventually they are going to snap.

fuck the little shits. they deserved it.

 

[mvbighead]

Ugh. Why couldn't this be more simple? Two "pretty", "role-model-esque" kids, but a nutty guy defending his property and taking it too far.

I think I was fine with what I read until the part of repeated shots to the chest and a finishing shot under the chin. I further doubt someone laughed at a guy after being shot and falling down the stairs. Unless they're trained for that sort of thing, I'd assume 99.9% of people would be scared shitless in that situation.

Long story short, had it been two shots, two kills, and a prompt reporting to the police, I'd say this would look much, much better.

As it's reported, it sounds like murder, or manslaughter at the very least. A man has a right to protect his domain, but taking the time to find another weapon and finishing shooting the burglar seems to be above and beyond. Get out of the house, call the police, and have them handle it.

Shooting them is justified, finishing them off when likely out of harms way is completely over the top.

 

[BergeLSU]

A few things don't seem to add up.

So they break in this house together, he runs downstairs, gets shot. He is lying on the floor and is executed. Old man drags him to another room, and sits down in his chair.

So, he was just robbed and killed someone (justified or not) and he sits down and waits?

A few minutes later she runs down the stairs and gets killed, too. This girl must have heard these gunshots. Would she really hear gunshots, wait a few minutes, THEN run downstairs towards them? She could have been high as someone else mentioned.

On top of everything, the old man leaves the bodies in his basement for a day and doesn't tell the police until the next day.

Yeah, this sounds sketchy as hell.

 

[jagec]

Yep, that's justification to put a few extra bullets into the chest of an unarmed teenage girl then drag her dying body into another room and shoot her again under the chin up through her skull. Always.

Being laughed at is always a valid reason for murder.:whiste:

NOT my point. I agree with the thread consensus that the first shot(s) may have been justified, but the executions were clearly not.

However, my post wasn't about the guy's judgement, it was about the girl's. Maybe she WAS high, but it seems totally bizarre to charge into gunfire in someone else's house and then laugh when the same guy shoots you as well.

 

[rasczak]

your question is vague. which shooting, the initial shot or the kill shots?

 

[spidey07]

The shooting was justified. Everything else after that wasn't and what will get him in trouble legally. If he would have called authorities after the shooting he would have been good legally.