GodlessAstronomer
Lifer
- Oct 27, 2007
- 17,009
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Mo0o
Lifer
- Jul 31, 2001
- 24,227
- 3
- 76
It's nearly impossible to find a needle in a hay stack, but its much easier for the needle to find itself and marvel and how tough it must have been.
There universe exists because the laws work, but why does that have to be divine? A infinite number of permutations of the universe could have occured before our version came to be.
There universe exists because the laws work, but why does that have to be divine? A infinite number of permutations of the universe could have occured before our version came to be.
Watch a video called priveledged planet. They actually line up the odds of earth becoming the way it is, and it completely trumps the odds you speak of. So many things are lined up in such a cool way that even aethiests in the video find it hard to believe things weren't in some way designed. They actually use scientifict fact to frame up design.
http://www.privilegedplanet.com/
No. Too many things are aligned for our existence the way we have it, for it not to have been tailor made for our experience.
http://www.privilegedplanet.com/
I thought the way you did until I saw that. It's mind blowing.
destrekor
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2005
- 28,799
- 359
- 126
Pretty much this.
Everyone takes everything we can experience and witness for granted. We're here because the conditions were right, at a multitude of stages throughout the history. The way the universe it shaped, is because of those conditions.
We wouldn't even be here to question this if the conditions were different. The big bang may have happened on more than one occasion, and before that conditions may have been different. We just know that conditions just happened to work, and over time, here we are.
I think it's terrible logic by the religious to see what we have here as perfect, being tailor made for us. Things just worked out.
You can make an experiment at home doing whatever. If the parameters aren't right, you don't get certain results. But all of a sudden you do the steps in the right order, use the right parameters, and poof, you get something awesome. We are here because things worked out, not the other way around. We don't get the chance to know about any other possibilities other than through theory, because we wouldn't be there.
destrekor
Lifer
- Nov 18, 2005
- 28,799
- 359
- 126
Stop looking at life from the top down. Look from the bottom up.
You're looking at the human state of being after quite a few years of fighting to live. We weren't handed life, we fought for it as mammals, as primates, and then as humans.
We even had to kill off another human-like species! Well, we didn't need to. Early humans felt threatened, pushed them off, and its theorized they died simply due to the environment of prehistoric Europe.
Look at other primates. If humans suddenly left Earth, but everything else stayed in tact, I'd imagine some primates would start learning as they experimented, and a new species similar to humans would emerge some time in the distant future.
But look at primates in general, and at humans. We are simply a well-rounded species. Everything that we can do though, another species can do it better, but can do only that thing or a few other things. We adapted by being able to, well, adapt to anything and everything and everywhere, most animals don't have that ability. We're resourceful. Primates too are resourceful, and is why we are here in the first place. But only one animal type can dominate a planet at a time, just the way the game of life works. And at this state, only if all primate species die will a non primate rule Earth if we leave it.
Everything we have here today, is because we didn't have it, and drove for it. Died for it.
First steps for primates, as well as humanity, was learning tools. Next generation though wouldn't know how to use tools, because it was an environmental thing, not instinct. So, we taught. We developed written language (though verbal communication was essential to instruct the meaning of the primitive chicken scratch on rocks).
A lot of animals, by nature, are problem solvers. Figuring out how to get something done, for reward or survival, and doing whatever is physically possible to accomplish that goal. Primates are more agile and have hands and feet (we lack the awesome feet of most other primates), so we can come up with more ways to accomplish goals. First tool was probably a club to do something. We also imitate. We probably found a sharp-ended bone somewhere, discovered that was a great method of killing other than through blunt trauma, and figured out how to sharpen a bone ourselves.
We face a problem, we strive to overcome that problem. Language, tools, tribal living - the rest falls in place naturally over time. Each generation has the chance to learn of all the successful things ancestors have accomplished, and hopefully all of the failures, so that time isn't wasted. Though some failures are simply because a few individuals didn't discover the right answer to the problem, and the next generation can.
How long did it take for humans to finally be able to have electricity? Come on - we are living in a world that is the result of thousands and thousands of generations of the human race. Don't short the race and reward some imaginary figurehead. We did it for ourselves after becoming a new species.
And we'll either die off at our own hands, or not figure a way out to prevent our destruction at the hands of nature - i.e. asteroids/comets and global flooding... permanent ice caps are a very new thing in terms of Earth's time-line. they won't always be there either, current position of continents may be providing the weather patterns that make it possible, but once the continents begin to merge again, we'll have far less land surface area, if the caps even remain the whole time the Earth stays configured like it is.
- Jan 3, 2001
- 41,920
- 2,161
- 126
Yes, it would, but I doubt it would have time to make complex life again as Earth doesn't have as much habitable time left.
Again I think people are either missing the point or not reading the article I posted because we're going off on subjects that weren't intended.
The article is stating that if there is any order in a given universe, that order will result in life. The universe is alive when part of it is able to look back upon itself---just like we are. The universe we live in is most likely an amazingly rare occurance.
SphinxnihpS
Diamond Member
- Feb 17, 2005
- 8,368
- 25
- 91
Kadarin
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2001
- 44,296
- 16
- 81
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbwRHIuXqMU
The above video is a pretty good argument against your assertion that humans are the only "intelligent" animals.
I was expecting an Arcadio thread (and IIRC he posted a thread stating the exact same things as the OP before also).
Siddhartha
Lifer
- Oct 17, 1999
- 12,505
- 3
- 81
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