Was Jesus actually sin-free?

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Alone

Originally posted by: sao123
I put no credibility to any of the recently found agnostic scriptures...

How is this b]a[/b]gnostic scripture?

I'm pretty sure he meant gnostic.


BTW, I feel I should point out that the logic being used here is very bad. You can't invalidate the NT by proclaiming the validity of this gnostic work, anymore than you could claim the validity of the Bible by saying the Bible says so. Do you see the point here? Try using your brains before you jump on your little agenda bandwagons, ok?

Correct... that "a" was a typo, and should not be there.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: randomint
yeah the council where they pretty much re-wrote christianity to whatever they wanted. it no longer remained what Jesus brought but a very different religion.

How would you know?

When I read his post I thought "to make that statement he must claim to have witnesed first-hand the events of a couple thousand years ago".

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: randomint
yeah the council where they pretty much re-wrote christianity to whatever they wanted. it no longer remained what Jesus brought but a very different religion.

How would you know?

When I read his post I thought "to make that statement he must claim to have witnesed first-hand the events of a couple thousand years ago".

Didn't you know? He sat on the Council of Nicea and knew Jesus personally! :laugh:

 

[meltdown75]

Where's Gag? Come on Gag, troll time!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
Where's Gag? Come on Gag, troll time!

Hehe. You know he once told me that I froth at the mouth? I 'bout passed out from the irony of it all...

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: ppdes
I've heard some things actually in the Bible were just inserted during copying, like the "throw the first stone" story.

That is certainly possible for some passages, but (assuming the validity of Jesus in the first place, which I am NOT going to argue here) that is extremely unlikely for John 8. That passage is integral to the entire message and story of Jesus, which is that sinners can be forgiven and that the authority of men (church officials, Pharisees, whatever) is not required.

He is actually right. That section did not appear in the earliest manuscripts. Most Bibles will mention this.

 

[xaeniac]

Untrue.

 

[sandorski]

Some of the passages in the Modern Bible never appeared in any Manuscripts until about 1000AD. As mentioned previously. If there is a "God", good luck in finding it in any Religion.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Was Jesus actually sin-free?

Yes. Jesus is God, and God can't sin.
/thread

You know this because the Bible teaches it, right? The same Bible that was assembled by the Council of Nicea, who had a specific agenda to make sure you were taught that.

The Bible is the "Word" of the Council of Nicea, not the Word of God.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rockyct

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: ppdes
I've heard some things actually in the Bible were just inserted during copying, like the "throw the first stone" story.

That is certainly possible for some passages, but (assuming the validity of Jesus in the first place, which I am NOT going to argue here) that is extremely unlikely for John 8. That passage is integral to the entire message and story of Jesus, which is that sinners can be forgiven and that the authority of men (church officials, Pharisees, whatever) is not required.

He is actually right. That section did not appear in the earliest manuscripts. Most Bibles will mention this.

I understand that. However, there is nothing about the Johannine texts that is not in some way controversial. Given the Pericope's orthodox content, I have always found it to be one of the more ridiculous to argue the validity against.

But then, I don't believe in the "literal" truth of the Bible. In my opinion, it (like other ancient religious texts) is an insight into the evolution of human philosophy. An allegory into the interpretation of the human mind, not something to be taken literally.

 

[randomint]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: randomint
yeah the council where they pretty much re-wrote christianity to whatever they wanted. it no longer remained what Jesus brought but a very different religion.

How would you know?

When I read his post I thought "to make that statement he must claim to have witnesed first-hand the events of a couple thousand years ago".

Didn't you know? He sat on the Council of Nicea and knew Jesus personally! :laugh:

yes, i was there

the bible is full of contradictions that i can never reconcile with. the only possible explanation would be that it has been changed deliberately by people who didn't realize the significance of what they were doing at that time.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: randomint

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: randomint
yeah the council where they pretty much re-wrote christianity to whatever they wanted. it no longer remained what Jesus brought but a very different religion.

How would you know?

When I read his post I thought "to make that statement he must claim to have witnesed first-hand the events of a couple thousand years ago".

Didn't you know? He sat on the Council of Nicea and knew Jesus personally! :laugh:

yes, i was there

the bible is full of contradictions that i can never reconcile with. the only possible explanation would be that it has been changed deliberately by people who didn't realize the significance of what they were doing at that time.

I personally don't believe God would let his word be changed for the worse. Sure, there are variations, but the generally most accepted ones are the right ones I believe.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: randomint

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: randomint
yeah the council where they pretty much re-wrote christianity to whatever they wanted. it no longer remained what Jesus brought but a very different religion.

How would you know?

When I read his post I thought "to make that statement he must claim to have witnesed first-hand the events of a couple thousand years ago".

Didn't you know? He sat on the Council of Nicea and knew Jesus personally! :laugh:

yes, i was there

the bible is full of contradictions that i can never reconcile with. the only possible explanation would be that it has been changed deliberately by people who didn't realize the significance of what they were doing at that time.

I personally don't believe God would let his word be changed for the worse. Sure, there are variations, but the generally most accepted ones are the right ones I believe.

Why not? Free will dictates that God lets people do whatever they want. If you're a believer, it's your job to find the right path back to Him within your heart. Not a book.

 

[sygyzy]

Is there some sort of expectation that Jesus was sin free? I must have missed that part of CCD.

 

[Alone]

Originally posted by: Vic
Why not? Free will dictates that God lets people do whatever they want. If you're a believer, it's your job to find the right path back to Him within your heart. Not a book.

For someone who is said not to interfere, he sure did send a lot of prophets.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: Vic
Why not? Free will dictates that God lets people do whatever they want. If you're a believer, it's your job to find the right path back to Him within your heart. Not a book.

I agree with you to some extent, but to find the right path back to him you would also need the Bible, which would be hard if it isn't as it's supposed to be. As of yet, I have found nothing to contradict my thoughts to those of the KJV Bible, so I'm going to believe that it is correct.

 

[palswim]

Originally posted by: Vic

Why not? Free will dictates that God lets people do whatever they want. If you're a believer, it's your job to find the right path back to Him within your heart. Not a book.

You sure you want to start a free will debate right now?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Alone

Originally posted by: Vic
Why not? Free will dictates that God lets people do whatever they want. If you're a believer, it's your job to find the right path back to Him within your heart. Not a book.

For someone who is said not to interfere, he sure did send a lot of prophets.

I don't follow you. Free will and omnipotence are not contradictory. But if you're looking for excuses, you'll always find them for anything and everything. If you take your emotions out of it, it will help you see more objectively. Suddenly you might see that the message is that of people trying to find hope and meaning in their lives. What's wrong with that? Well, except that to argue "literally" for either side (pro or con) is just silly.

 

[Alone]

Originally posted by: Vic
I don't follow you. Free will and omnipotence are not contradictory. But if you're looking for excuses, you'll always find them for anything and everything. If you take your emotions out of it, it will help you see more objectively. Suddenly you might see that the message is that of people trying to find hope and meaning in their lives. What's wrong with that? Well, except that to argue "literally" for either side (pro or con) is just silly.

Shouldn't religion be found within one-self, without the need for someone to explain it? Why would we need to have prophets sent for us if we were supposed to have free will? Sending people who "speak on his behalf" or serve as some other kind of mediator seems to be interfering to me.

 

[randomint]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: randomint

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: randomint
yeah the council where they pretty much re-wrote christianity to whatever they wanted. it no longer remained what Jesus brought but a very different religion.

How would you know?

When I read his post I thought "to make that statement he must claim to have witnesed first-hand the events of a couple thousand years ago".

Didn't you know? He sat on the Council of Nicea and knew Jesus personally! :laugh:

yes, i was there

the bible is full of contradictions that i can never reconcile with. the only possible explanation would be that it has been changed deliberately by people who didn't realize the significance of what they were doing at that time.

I personally don't believe God would let his word be changed for the worse. Sure, there are variations, but the generally most accepted ones are the right ones I believe.

Why not? Free will dictates that God lets people do whatever they want. If you're a believer, it's your job to find the right path back to Him within your heart. Not a book.

agreed. christianity to me seems like a religion born out of convenience. you can pretty much do anything and get away with it as long as you "believe". there's nothing pushing me to take the moral initiative with regards to my actions and interactions with others. heck, i can pay a priest and go scot free irrespective of how heinous my crimes are in terms of man-made laws..as long as i "believe".

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: palswim

Originally posted by: Vic

Why not? Free will dictates that God lets people do whatever they want. If you're a believer, it's your job to find the right path back to Him within your heart. Not a book.

You sure you want to start a free will debate right now?

What debate could there possibly be when free will is self-evident? Predestination arguments hold up about as well as astrology, a "literal" interpretation of the Bible, and young earth creationism. In other words, it sounds nice and fancy, but then you're gonna do whatever it is you want, right? And then argue that you were destined to that?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Alone
Shouldn't religion be found within one-self, without the need for someone to explain it? Why would we need to have prophets sent for us if we were supposed to have free will? Sending people who "speak on his behalf" or serve as some other kind of mediator seems to be interfering to me.

You see? You're taking it literally. What is a prophet? Define "God".

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: randomint
agreed. christianity to me seems like a religion born out of convenience. you can pretty much do anything and get away with it as long as you "believe". there's nothing pushing me to take the moral initiative with regards to my actions and interactions with others. heck, i can pay a priest and go scot free irrespective of how heinous my crimes are in terms of man-made laws..as long as i "believe".

Umm... well, I can't agree with that. Sure, that might be the indirect teachings of the church, but it's not what Jesus said. Or perhaps that's what you meant?

 

[randomint]

Originally posted by: Alone

Originally posted by: Vic
I don't follow you. Free will and omnipotence are not contradictory. But if you're looking for excuses, you'll always find them for anything and everything. If you take your emotions out of it, it will help you see more objectively. Suddenly you might see that the message is that of people trying to find hope and meaning in their lives. What's wrong with that? Well, except that to argue "literally" for either side (pro or con) is just silly.

Shouldn't religion be found within one-self, without the need for someone to explain it? Why would we need to have prophets sent for us if we were supposed to have free will? Sending people who "speak on his behalf" or serve as some other kind of mediator seems to be interfering to me.

i hear you. but think of it this way. if god spoke to every human being on his/her level (i.e. revealed himself), then faith wouldn't be faith anymore. the name of the game is to believe in him without actually having seen him your whole life.

he picks from among people one person to convey his message to all people. that's just his way of doing things. if he didn't, then there'd be no way for the message to get to you.

 

[randomint]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: randomint
agreed. christianity to me seems like a religion born out of convenience. you can pretty much do anything and get away with it as long as you "believe". there's nothing pushing me to take the moral initiative with regards to my actions and interactions with others. heck, i can pay a priest and go scot free irrespective of how heinous my crimes are in terms of man-made laws..as long as i "believe".

Umm... well, I can't agree with that. Sure, that might be the indirect teachings of the church, but it's not what Jesus said. Or perhaps that's what you meant?

he came to earth as the perfect lamb to die for the sins of all mankind. he's already paid for my sins. why should i bother being a good person?