Was it all just a huge deception?

[UltraQuiet]

From Washington Post

American and British interrogators have asked dozens of generals who served in high-ranking command roles in Iraqi army divisions during this year -- some imprisoned, some living freely -- why Hussein did not use chemical weapons to defend Baghdad. A number of these generals have said that they, too, believed chemical weapons would be deployed by Hussein for the capital's defense. Yet none of the officers admitted receiving such weapons himself.

"The only consistent pattern we've gotten -- 100 percent consistent -- is that each commander says, 'My unit didn't have WMD, but the one to my right or left did,' " said the senior U.S. official involved. This has led some American interrogators to theorize that Hussein may have bluffed not only neighboring governments and the United States, but his own restive generals.

"He would not hesitate to deceive even his hand-chosen commanders if he thought that by this he could achieve success," agreed Jubouri, the former general.

It's a pretty good article, kinda long but worth it. Without any commitment to the validity of the statements made in the article, is it possible that Iraq could have put together a deception program so complex that they were lying to their own generals?

 

[Martin]

So complex? Highly unlikely. Most likely know one really knew what the hell was going on.

 

[VioletAura]

Iraq was hoping until the final moments that the UN would halt the US advance into the country. Iraq wanted the "possible threat" of a WMD strike to foil the invasion. They gambled that if US intelligence picked up that the "unit next to my unit" has poison gas then maybe the US would have halted, or even turned back. I remember hearing on the news during the war that the US had captured Iraqi maps which had a red line on them, and they even believed it marked a point where chemical weapons would have been used. The best guess now is that when the US advanced to that point it meant that the invasion wasn't going to be stopped and military units would integrate into the population to wage the current guerrilla war.

Red line on map

 

[DealMonkey]

Was it all just a huge deception?

Yup.

There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.

Who's the fool now?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I still don't buy the premise that Bush was "tricked" into invading Iraq. Members of his administration wanted an excuse to invade Iraq. IMHO, the spectre of WMD or alleged links to Al Qaeda was all they needed. Accordingly, they never provided proof of WMD or links to Al Qaeda before the war . . . and of course, such information has failed to materialize subsequently.

Welcome back, Dave.

 

[dirtboy]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet


It's a pretty good article, kinda long but worth it. Without any commitment to the validity of the statements made in the article, is it possible that Iraq could have put together a deception program so complex that they were lying to their own generals?

I wouldn't be surprised. Look at all the crap that spewed from the Ministry of Information. There's no doubt that Hussein kept everyone second guessing his moves. He had no choice, because his survival depended on it. He had to keep his own military at bay and the citizens. I'm sure he would do anything to convince the world not to invade his country and he was rather successful. It would be an interesting twist that our information came from disinformation paced by Hussein and his men. If it is true, it was a rather gutsy and foolish move!

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Was it all just a huge deception?

Yup.

There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.

Who's the fool now?

i think the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"

and if it were just a big bluff, then its all saddams fault for thinking he could use that kind of tactic forever.
but, what about gulf war syndrome?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Was it all just a huge deception?

Yup.

There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.

Who's the fool now?

i think the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"

and if it were just a big bluff, then its all saddams fault for thinking he could use that kind of tactic forever.
but, what about gulf war syndrome?

Pssttt - he was trying to make fun of Bush's flubbing of that saying

CkG

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Was it all just a huge deception?

Yup.

There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.

Who's the fool now?

LOL...and he's our president :Q

 

[MonstaThrilla]

I couldn't resist.

 

[Pers]

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Was it all just a huge deception?

Yup.

There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.

Who's the fool now?

i think the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"

and if it were just a big bluff, then its all saddams fault for thinking he could use that kind of tactic forever.
but, what about gulf war syndrome?

There's an old saying in Tennessee - no, it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee...that says, fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me...you can't get fooled again. ~ George Bush, 9/17/02

 

[Genesys]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Genesys

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Was it all just a huge deception?

Yup.

There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.

Who's the fool now?

i think the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"

and if it were just a big bluff, then its all saddams fault for thinking he could use that kind of tactic forever.
but, what about gulf war syndrome?

Pssttt - he was trying to make fun of Bush's flubbing of that saying

CkG

oh, was that it?

 

[kage69]

I'm thinking this was Cheney's war from the get-go. Weird thing is that his biggest aid in the whole thing was Saddam. Go figure.

 

[Gaard]

It's not my fault! Saddam tricked me!

 

[Witling]

This week's Newsweek (11/17/03) has as the lead article, How Dick Cheney Sold The War: The Inside Story: Why He Fell for [text changes color] Bad Intelligence - [Text changes back to original color] and Pitched It to The President.

Here's the start of the campaign, folks. FL 1 (Fearless Leader 1) was misinformmed. But not maliciously, he was misinformed because of bad intelligence. Please re-elect him now that we've corrected these mistakes. And, it will probably sell.

Yes, it was a huge deception. In terms of armament, we're the only 800 lb. gorilla left on the planet. The thought that any national government (as opposed to a small group of fuitcakes) would think of attacking us is ludicrousl.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: Whitling
Yes, it was a huge deception. In terms of armament, we're the only 800 lb. gorilla left on the planet. The thought that any national government (as opposed to a small group of fuitcakes) would think of attacking us is ludicrousl.

Who ever said a national government was going to attack us?
I think the concern was a national government giving nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons to that small group of fruitcakes. By the way, that small group isn't so small.

 

[VioletAura]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: Whitling
Yes, it was a huge deception. In terms of armament, we're the only 800 lb. gorilla left on the planet. The thought that any national government (as opposed to a small group of fuitcakes) would think of attacking us is ludicrousl.

Who ever said a national government was going to attack us?
I think the concern was a national government giving nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons to that small group of fruitcakes. By the way, that small group isn't so small.

Wow. Someone who actually bought the "Saddam is going to give WMDs to Bin Laden" bologna.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: VioletAura

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: Whitling
Yes, it was a huge deception. In terms of armament, we're the only 800 lb. gorilla left on the planet. The thought that any national government (as opposed to a small group of fuitcakes) would think of attacking us is ludicrousl.

Who ever said a national government was going to attack us?
I think the concern was a national government giving nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons to that small group of fruitcakes. By the way, that small group isn't so small.

Wow. Someone who actually bought the "Saddam is going to give WMDs to Bin Laden" bologna.

Wow, someone who thinks Saddam is a peace-loving fun guy who wouldn't hurt a fly. Wanna tell me why he wouldn't have given them to him?

 

[VioletAura]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: VioletAura

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: Whitling
Yes, it was a huge deception. In terms of armament, we're the only 800 lb. gorilla left on the planet. The thought that any national government (as opposed to a small group of fuitcakes) would think of attacking us is ludicrousl.

Who ever said a national government was going to attack us?
I think the concern was a national government giving nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons to that small group of fruitcakes. By the way, that small group isn't so small.

Wow. Someone who actually bought the "Saddam is going to give WMDs to Bin Laden" bologna.

Wow, someone who thinks Saddam is a peace-loving fun guy who wouldn't hurt a fly. Wanna tell me why he wouldn't have given them to him?

For starters:
1) He didn't have any to give.
2) If he was going to give them, then he would have given them when he had large stockpiles (pre-1991), but didn't.
3) Islamic extremist terror groups hate Saddam more than they hate the US. - Bin Laden originally wanted to lead a jihad against Saddam after he took Kuwait.

 

[SuperTool]

It was all a just a huge deception. by Bush.

 

[DT4K]

Originally posted by: VioletAura
For starters:
1) He didn't have any to give.
2) If he was going to give them, then he would have given them when he had large stockpiles (pre-1991), but didn't.
3) Islamic extremist terror groups hate Saddam more than they hate the US. - Bin Laden originally wanted to lead a jihad against Saddam after he took Kuwait.

Does that include the islamic extremist terror groups who had training camps in Iraq?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: VioletAura
For starters:
1) He didn't have any to give.
2) If he was going to give them, then he would have given them when he had large stockpiles (pre-1991), but didn't.
3) Islamic extremist terror groups hate Saddam more than they hate the US. - Bin Laden originally wanted to lead a jihad against Saddam after he took Kuwait.

Does that include the islamic extremist terror groups who had training camps in Iraq?

You mean those camps that were next to the WMD stockpiles?

 

[VioletAura]

Originally posted by: Shanti

Originally posted by: VioletAura
For starters:
1) He didn't have any to give.
2) If he was going to give them, then he would have given them when he had large stockpiles (pre-1991), but didn't.
3) Islamic extremist terror groups hate Saddam more than they hate the US. - Bin Laden originally wanted to lead a jihad against Saddam after he took Kuwait.

Does that include the islamic extremist terror groups who had training camps in Iraq?

You referring to the Ansar al-Islam camps in Kurdish controlled territory?

"They are our enemy," he said, adding that his group opposes Saddam Hussein because, unlike Osama bin Laden, Saddam is not a good Muslim.

Source

 

[DT4K]

Wait, so they hate Saddam because he isn't a good muslim, but they like us?
Just as we have in the past, people often work in coordination with their enemies for the goal of defeating a common and greater enemy.

Al Qaeda has attacked Saudi Arabia as well. That doesn't mean that they don't receive support in Saudi.

 

[VioletAura]

Originally posted by: Shanti
Wait, so they hate Saddam because he isn't a good muslim, but they like us?
Just as we have in the past, people often work in coordination with their enemies for the goal of defeating a common and greater enemy.

Al Qaeda has attacked Saudi Arabia as well. That doesn't mean that they don't receive support in Saudi.

What makes you think they like the US? IIRC, one of the many different Kurdish groups and US special forces jointly eradicated them.

These fanatics would never team up with Saddam. The enemy of my enemy is my friend theory doesn't always apply especially when you are dealing with unreasonable people such as religious extremist.

The group, whose name means "Supporters of Islam," rules a remote portion of the autonomous northern Kurdish territories in Iraq near the Iran border, which is not controlled by Saddam Hussein. In fact, their leaders say they seek to overthrow Saddam Hussein and his government.