Was dual-card technology a waste mostly to develop?

[SickBeast]

TakeNoPrisoners, your own charts show SLI scaling at 50%.

Single GPUs are indeed better, but considering the cost differential it is often a much better option to go with SLI or Crossfire.

Lack of VRAM is the biggest drawback. Driver issues are neither here nor there. There are often driver issues for single cards upon a game's release. All that they have to do for SLI or Crossfire is create a profile, and even if they don't you can use AFR.

 

[greenhawk]

Many of the major tech websites do not recommend a multi-gpu setup in a everyday computer. Driver problems and day one support of games are the main reasons.

everyday computer? for most people that would mean a work like computer and a integrated GPU can do most of those tasks. Getting a dual GPU for web surfing is just wrong. Nothing to do with drivers or problems. Just no need for it.

As to driver problems and day one support issues, even single cards have been having that recently. I use to laugh at ATI for that reason so always went nVidia. Now both are having it even with single card setups.

Case in point, Rage and BF3, both wanted you to update your drivers at release and they are not that far apart in their release cycles. For me, Rage worked fine with the default windows drivers (GXT570). Come BF3 though, it started out fine, but after the second day of gaming, the game would lockup/crash when ever I died. Did the driver update and the problem went away.

But I am starting to suspect it is a design flaw in the power management systems and how the latest version (both nVidia and AMD/ATI) respond to new code/programs. IIRC nVidia need the drivers to reconize the program, otherwise their is no slowdown for the hardware and it can cook itself. AMD/ATI use a inbuild power limiter, so use enough of the hardware and the performance gets cut to keep the card cool/safe.

 

[SickBeast]

nVidia's drivers were a mess in BF3 until they released the new one. My screen was flashing like crazy. It probably would have given some people an epileptic fit.

 

[Smartazz]

I never really got the point of it either. For example, the 6970/580 is more than enough for pretty much any game at up to 1920x1200. At resolutions higher than that, dual cards as opposed to the 6990/590 makes more sense. Less noise, and while it may cost more than a dual-GPU card, I doubt the extra money is much of a concern when driving a 1440p/1600p monitor. From a marketing point of view, dual-GPU cards are great because they can be marketed as single cards.

 

[lavaheadache]

Pretty much what I was thinking. The GTX 580 IMO doesn't warrant $500 for most situations and most people. Maybe if you're trying to break records and all that then go for it, or if you just have to have the fastest. For a majority though it's got more performance than they need, and they could grab a second card to match what they currently have and SLI/Crossfire them for a boost that matches or beats the 580.



Show me a link to a GTX 580 for $425... the cheapest I can find even after rebate is $470

Get two GTX 560Ti's ($199 after rebate) and you're at $400. The only limitation you'd have besides some scaling issues with some games is the 1GB vram instead of 1.5. Then again you could get two 6950s for the same price as a GTX 580 before rebate. It is all depending on what you're playing and whether it has good multi card scaling.

Sorry, I missed your post... At the time I wrote that this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133395 was in stock along with the non superclocked version. It took me all of 5 seconds to find it. I'm sure if I spend another 10 minutes I can find a few more.

Multi GPU sucks. I've had no less than 10 different crossfire/Sli setups and each one sucked off and on. If Im paying good money for my setup I want it to perform all the time.

 

[HeXen]

i would use 2 or perhaps even 3 cards. however it always seems to be far more buggy to do so. PC games offer enough problems on their own.
instead i'll buy the top line GPU every few generations. i usually get enough out of doing such to last me a good long while.

 

[digitaldurandal]

I'm guessing it was not trivial to develop technology for two graphics cards to be used together to nearly double the performance.

And it seems top single cards usually can more than handle any software that's out.

But the usual buying advice seems to be that the only use for it is if you need to put two of the best cards for great performance immediately.

Otherwise, for lower quality cards they say 'just get a better single card', and for the 'get a second card later' it's 'by then, better cards that come out make more sense'.

So, while sometimes people do use two cards, it it just really not that useful to justify the expense of cards and motherboards having the feature?

When running at 5760x1200 multiple cards are a must

 

[HeXen]

i always wonder how well 2 voodoo 2's in SLI worked out back in the day and if they worked well in most games, how come NV has more issues

 

[Anarchist420]

i always wonder how well 2 voodoo 2's in SLI worked out back in the day and if they worked well in most games, how come NV has more issues

Because the rendering load was split between scanlines. One card rendered odd lines, the other rendered even lines. CF and nvSLI use AFR which sucks because it adds lag.

 

[Paul98]

I think it's a great idea, and can work out great if done right. It just needs more time to develop. Just think if you were able to get the performance boost without the drawbacks.

 

[taltamir]

Your points are valid in certain situations.

Imagine you bought a 5850 when it came out. Buying a 2nd 5850 (now or a few months ago) to net a decent boost is a much more cost efficient measure than upgrade to any of the most expensive single solution cards. It also lets you take advantage on the used market or any deals you might come around.

this requires that you have, to begin with:
1. bought a mobo with 2 slots.
2. bought a mobo supporting your choice of gpu company (nVidia SLI or AMD xfire) into which you are locked.
3. bought a 1000 watt PSU instead of a 500 watt one.

Taking the extra costs and planning it makes more sense to stick with a single card solution and just upgrade that card (sell and buy better)

 

[BFG10K]

It's not as though alternate frame rendering is rocket science, either.

Actually AFR is tremendously complex to implement in modern games. Inter-GPU dependencies need to be handled transparently on a per-application basis while presenting the hardware as a single GPU from a compatibility standpoint. In some cases there’s even unique driver code for certain games.

The technology for using multiple cards has been around for years and years, since 3DFX did it way back probably 10 years ago now. nVidia bought them out and I'm sure it wouldn't have been too hard to implement the technology into their lineup.

3dfx never implemented AFR. Furthermore, the pipeline 3dfx implemented for games at the time was an elementary rasterizer compared to what today’s programmable GPUs deal with in modern games.

 

[wahdangun]

i think lucid hydra was the best way to implement multiGPU, because its split the workload based on object that being rendered.

 

[SirPauly]

I'm guessing it was not trivial to develop technology for two graphics cards to be used together to nearly double the performance.

And it seems top single cards usually can more than handle any software that's out.

But the usual buying advice seems to be that the only use for it is if you need to put two of the best cards for great performance immediately.

Otherwise, for lower quality cards they say 'just get a better single card', and for the 'get a second card later' it's 'by then, better cards that come out make more sense'.

So, while sometimes people do use two cards, it it just really not that useful to justify the expense of cards and motherboards having the feature?

Imho,

It's easy to justify the use of a CrossFire or Sli platform for a performance or enthusiast mind-set. These kinds of mind-sets don't desire to settle for "good enough" gaming.

 

[SirPauly]

i think lucid hydra was the best way to implement multiGPU, because its split the workload based on object that being rendered.

Is it? What about when adding specific IHV features and abilities?

 

[GaiaHunter]

this requires that you have, to begin with:
1. bought a mobo with 2 slots.
2. bought a mobo supporting your choice of gpu company (nVidia SLI or AMD xfire) into which you are locked.
3. bought a 1000 watt PSU instead of a 500 watt one.

Taking the extra costs and planning it makes more sense to stick with a single card solution and just upgrade that card (sell and buy better)

1.If you haven't bought a mobo with 2 slots CF/SLI isn't an option available so the debate is nil. What one could say in that CF/SLI adoption is constrained by this (although there are motherboards supporting CF/SLI that aren't much more expensive).
2.That is becoming less relevant and there are hacks - look at sickbeast here running 2x GTX460 on an AMD motherboard (which were CF only until very recently).
3. 650W/750W PSU can power most medium range cards in CF/SLI.

Look at 5850/6850/6850 CF vs GTX480 for example or even the GTX580 power consumption.

While dual cards setups still have some problems, with each year it is becoming a more interesting option.

 

[digitaldurandal]

My 570 sli runs fine on my 750w power supply. No issues at all same power supply I had when using my 5870.

I feel like a couple people in the thread have an unreasonable animosity towards high end gamers who "don't settle for good enough." You should thank us, we drive graphical growth that you will be able to take advantage of in upcoming generations.

I bought two cards to play games in surroundview/eyefinity. I did it because the cost of it was not that great to me. Sure it cost me about 700 bucks to get two 570s but by the time I upgrade I probably will have played about 700 hours too. Although lately I have had less time. Even if I only play for 350 hours before upgrading I think the cost for the entertainment is relatively low.

And I am not even counting games that don't take advantage of the cards' potential like LOL or I would be adding another few hundred hours.

 

[SickBeast]

I hold no animosity. I just know from experience that dropping $500 on a GPU is bad news.

 

[GotNoRice]

this requires that you have, to begin with:
1. bought a mobo with 2 slots.
2. bought a mobo supporting your choice of gpu company (nVidia SLI or AMD xfire) into which you are locked.
3. bought a 1000 watt PSU instead of a 500 watt one.

Taking the extra costs and planning it makes more sense to stick with a single card solution and just upgrade that card (sell and buy better)

1. Most enthusiast motherboards these days come with 2 physical 16x slots anyway.
2. My Asus P8Z68-V supports both and it's not even one of their top-end boards.
3. My 1000w Antec only cost me $129, and it's on it's 3rd year of service. I'd call that a bargain, if anything.

I'm not sure the amount you would "save" would be worth the terrible components you'd end up stuck with. 1 PCI-E slot and a 500w power supply? Is this a Compaq we're talking about?

 

[crisium]

If you wanna run BF3 at Ultra at 2560 resolution, you basically need a dual-gpu set-up. Not a waste for those folks. Though an aggressively overclocked GTX 580 should actually handle that as well.

 

[taltamir]

1. Most enthusiast motherboards these days come with 2 physical 16x slots anyway.
2. My Asus P8Z68-V supports both and it's not even one of their top-end boards.
3. My 1000w Antec only cost me $129, and it's on it's 3rd year of service. I'd call that a bargain, if anything.

1. Most of us don't buy "enthusiast motherboards"
2. That is actually pretty good, if only all motherboards were like that.
3. My 500 watt earthwatts cost me 40$ and is more efficient when running a single GPU (since efficiency depends on load level and is a bell curve, under or overloading a PSU harms efficiency)

4. You all completely miss the point that the whole "buy 1 card now, have easy upgrade later" doesn't work out since its "replace everything later to get dual GPU, or to begin with spent hundreds extra to make a dual GPU ready system and not use it"...
Why in the world would you pay 90$ more for PSU and about the same more for the mobo and then NOT use dual GPU? It is insanity to spend so much "just to be ready".

And don't forget that there are those dual GPU on single card for the single slotters amongst us...

 

[tigersty1e]

2 cards should be able to add up the available memory and use it all instead of using only half. Such a waste.

 

[HeXen]

Because the rendering load was split between scanlines. One card rendered odd lines, the other rendered even lines. CF and nvSLI use AFR which sucks because it adds lag.

well then how come NV doesn't use the old method?

 

[SirPauly]

Probably had to with geometry data.

 

[taltamir]

well then how come NV doesn't use the old method?

because AFR is superior to scan line interleave.