Was America founded on terrorism?

[0roo0roo]

you judge in the context of its times. today we know better. the world isnt isolated, people have to actively try to keep themselves ignorant.

go back far enough everyones been involved in a genocide or some attrocity. we are the decendents of the victors after all. the losers..all dead.

u think maybe the indians the settlers met were indians that killed indians that came before them? perhaps.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Canada must have been founded on terrorism too.

I find it stupid how people label just about anything terrorism now. And they always seem to point at America. :disgust:

No, they don't. If anything, the "terrorist" label is overused in reference to our enemies. Not all of them are terrorists.

I never hear people referring to Americans as terrorists in the present day.

How they point out things in war and go "oh thats terrorism!" Any they always only point at Americans. Do you hear people talking relabeling the Nazi war machine as the Nazi terrorist machine? no. But they do to the Americans, even though the Nazis did far worse.

Yeah, because NAZIs have a really great image? 😕

Leave this crap in P&N.

If you don't like it, STOP POSTING IN THE DAMN THREAD. You're the only person here who took this thread in the direction of P&N with your last post.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Canada must have been founded on terrorism too.

I find it stupid how people label just about anything terrorism now. And they always seem to point at America. :disgust:
How bout the Romans? Mongols? Spanish? Russians? Egyptians? Japanese?
How they point out things in war and go "oh thats terrorism!" Any they always only point at Americans. Do you hear people talking relabeling the Nazi war machine as the Nazi terrorist machine? no. But they do to the Americans, even though the Nazis did far worse.

Leave this crap in P&N.

Look at my past posts, I am usually the one defending America. Romans, definately, Mongols, definately. Spanish, most definately.

But did they use terrorism to form their country? That is the question in the OP. When the Europeans came here to seek a better life, not to fight a war. Do not mention war. War was actively pursued by the Europeans.

No, I will post where I want to post.

 

[maddogchen]

Well if you say America was founded on war, I would agree. Don't agree on terrorism. Did they use raiding parties to terrorize Indians? Yes. But thats not reflective of how America was founded on. They eventually took the territories though war and aggression, not terrorism.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
Well if you say America was founded on war, I would agree. Don't agree on terrorism. Did they use raiding parties to terrorize Indians? Yes. But thats not reflective of how America was founded on. They eventually took the territories though war and aggression, not terrorism.

Sure, that means it was founded on bloodshed and cruelty. It doesn't make it any better. Raiding parties?

They used disease as a weapon to kill the Indians on a mass scale. That may or may not have been their original intent, but that played into their plans. Biological warfare?

The Puritans came here, had peace with the local populations for the first few years. Then they had the desire to expand and saw large pieces of land, of forests full of Satan worshippers. They had to be conquered. European thinking and Native American thinking are totally different when it comes to the perception of land and nature.

They took the territories through the use of pure force and murder. When you send in armies to kill people as they are sleeping, what is that called?

 

[DrPizza]

Uhhh, you've watched too many old movies if you think the Indians were primarily the ones responsible for most of the scalpings going on. While some people believe that the practice was introduced by Europeans, it wasn't. But, Europeans were responsible for the majority of the scalpings going on. There were bounties being paid for Indian scalps. Most of the scalping of Europeans by Indians was done in retaliation. If not the Europeans doing the scalping, it was other Indian tribes who were encouraged by the Europeans to scalp their enemies. As soon as both sides had greatly weakened each other, thanks to the Europeans, the Europeans went in and completed the job.

Here's just one article of many... do a little googling. here

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Uhhh, you've watched too many old movies if you think the Indians were primarily the ones responsible for most of the scalpings going on. While some people believe that the practice was introduced by Europeans, it wasn't. But, Europeans were responsible for the majority of the scalpings going on. There were bounties being paid for Indian scalps. Most of the scalping of Europeans by Indians was done in retaliation. If not the Europeans doing the scalping, it was other Indian tribes who were encouraged by the Europeans to scalp their enemies. As soon as both sides had greatly weakened each other, thanks to the Europeans, the Europeans went in and completed the job.

Here's just one article of many... do a little googling. here

I agree, the Indians werent wholly innocent. Not in the least. Sure they were screwed on a couple of land deals, but hey that happens everyday. I still dont understand why they dont have to pay taxes on the billions their casinos make? They are Americans right?

 

[Mo0o]

Boston Tea party was basically a terrorist act.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Uhhh, you've watched too many old movies if you think the Indians were primarily the ones responsible for most of the scalpings going on. While some people believe that the practice was introduced by Europeans, it wasn't. But, Europeans were responsible for the majority of the scalpings going on. There were bounties being paid for Indian scalps. Most of the scalping of Europeans by Indians was done in retaliation. If not the Europeans doing the scalping, it was other Indian tribes who were encouraged by the Europeans to scalp their enemies. As soon as both sides had greatly weakened each other, thanks to the Europeans, the Europeans went in and completed the job.

Here's just one article of many... do a little googling. here

I agree, the Indians werent wholly innocent. Not in the least. Sure they were screwed on a couple of land deals, but hey that happens everyday. I still dont understand why they dont have to pay taxes on the billions their casinos make? They are Americans right?

How are the Indians at fault? Was it their fault that the British robbed their home, infected them with disease, destroyed nature, killed their tribes and ruined their lives?

 

[Miramonti]

'Terrorism' is generally a word that one uses to demonize others' agenda, not one's one, so I would have to say no.

That is unless the OP asking the question is British or Native American, because indeed y'all were terrorists. 😛😉

 

[maddogchen]

America you can say was founded on bloodshed. Revolutionary War was a lot of bloodshed. Civil War to keep the Union intact was all bloodshed. But you'd be hard pressed to find any country that did not have a history of bloodshed that resulted in the borders of its country today.

History is filled with many countries expanding through conquering and integration of land and people that are deemed inferior. Most of China came about that way. Many ancient civilizations did that: Mayans, Aztecs, Ottomans...

When you send in armies to kill people as they are sleeping, what is that called?

A very good surprise attack.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Trollbait.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Uhhh, you've watched too many old movies if you think the Indians were primarily the ones responsible for most of the scalpings going on. While some people believe that the practice was introduced by Europeans, it wasn't. But, Europeans were responsible for the majority of the scalpings going on. There were bounties being paid for Indian scalps. Most of the scalping of Europeans by Indians was done in retaliation. If not the Europeans doing the scalping, it was other Indian tribes who were encouraged by the Europeans to scalp their enemies. As soon as both sides had greatly weakened each other, thanks to the Europeans, the Europeans went in and completed the job.

Here's just one article of many... do a little googling. here

I agree, the Indians werent wholly innocent. Not in the least. Sure they were screwed on a couple of land deals, but hey that happens everyday. I still dont understand why they dont have to pay taxes on the billions their casinos make? They are Americans right?

How are the Indians at fault? Was it their fault that the British robbed their home, infected them with disease, destroyed nature, killed their tribes and ruined their lives?

Manifest destiny. America had to stretch from sea to shining sea. Integrate or be integrated. Reistance was futile for the Indians and some had to die to understand that.

Heres a tissue and a pat on the back. Its going to be ok. The Indians are thriving and prospering now. In fact tribal lands dont pay taxes, get free benefits and are a protected minority group in charge of large swaths of land where they now practice 'sovereignty'. They also charge exorbitant tax free sums (recently quadrupled or quintipled due to skyrocketing nat gas) for rights or way. Anything else?

 

[Mo0o]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Uhhh, you've watched too many old movies if you think the Indians were primarily the ones responsible for most of the scalpings going on. While some people believe that the practice was introduced by Europeans, it wasn't. But, Europeans were responsible for the majority of the scalpings going on. There were bounties being paid for Indian scalps. Most of the scalping of Europeans by Indians was done in retaliation. If not the Europeans doing the scalping, it was other Indian tribes who were encouraged by the Europeans to scalp their enemies. As soon as both sides had greatly weakened each other, thanks to the Europeans, the Europeans went in and completed the job.

Here's just one article of many... do a little googling. here

I agree, the Indians werent wholly innocent. Not in the least. Sure they were screwed on a couple of land deals, but hey that happens everyday. I still dont understand why they dont have to pay taxes on the billions their casinos make? They are Americans right?

How are the Indians at fault? Was it their fault that the British robbed their home, infected them with disease, destroyed nature, killed their tribes and ruined their lives?

Manifest destiny. America had to stretch from sea to shining sea. Integrate or be integrated. Reistance was futile for the Indians and some had to die to understand that.

Heres a tissue and a pat on the back. Its going to be ok. The Indians are thriving and prospering now. In fact tribal lands pay taxes, get thousands in free benes every year and are a protected minority group in charge of large swaths of land where they now practice 'sovereignty'. They also charge exorbitant tax free sums (recently quadrupled or quintipled due to skyrocketing nat gas) for rights or way. Anything else?

So it's ok to fvck people up as long as we pay them back later?

 

[Miramonti]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Uhhh, you've watched too many old movies if you think the Indians were primarily the ones responsible for most of the scalpings going on. While some people believe that the practice was introduced by Europeans, it wasn't. But, Europeans were responsible for the majority of the scalpings going on. There were bounties being paid for Indian scalps. Most of the scalping of Europeans by Indians was done in retaliation. If not the Europeans doing the scalping, it was other Indian tribes who were encouraged by the Europeans to scalp their enemies. As soon as both sides had greatly weakened each other, thanks to the Europeans, the Europeans went in and completed the job.

Here's just one article of many... do a little googling. here

I agree, the Indians werent wholly innocent. Not in the least. Sure they were screwed on a couple of land deals, but hey that happens everyday. I still dont understand why they dont have to pay taxes on the billions their casinos make? They are Americans right?

How are the Indians at fault? Was it their fault that the British robbed their home, infected them with disease, destroyed nature, killed their tribes and ruined their lives?

Manifest destiny. America had to stretch from sea to shining sea. Integrate or be integrated. Reistance was futile for the Indians and some had to die to understand that.

Heres a tissue and a pat on the back. Its going to be ok. The Indians are thriving and prospering now. In fact tribal lands pay taxes, get thousands in free benes every year and are a protected minority group in charge of large swaths of land where they now practice 'sovereignty'. They also charge exorbitant tax free sums (recently quadrupled or quintipled due to skyrocketing nat gas) for rights or way. Anything else?

So it's ok to fvck people up as long as we pay them back later?

Sounds like we must be heroes for not wiping out their race entirely.

 

[tfcmasta97]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Small pox did most of the dirty work.

from blankets that early americans gave to them because they knew it was infected.... biological weapons based terrorism.

so to OP's question, yes, a more underground than blatant form.

 

[canadageek]

early america (AFTER the revolution) did take part in active genocide. the buffalo were wiped out to force the Indians to reserves. villages were slaughtered. smallpox-ridden blankets were given away. the natives that DID go to reservations were treated like vermin anyway. bounties on Indian scalps were paid.

now, i wouldn't quite lable this "terrorism" because the the Whites didn't want to scare the indians, they just wanted them out of the way. dead, or on reserves. it was disgusting, but not terrorism. terrorism is the act of frightening a civilian populace to bend them to your will. or get a point across.

interestingly enough, i saw mentioned that canada alo "terrorized" the indians here. not so. in fact, we took an indian chief (Sitting Bull) in for a couple of months, until we deported him to uncle sam. Indians up here were employed, bringing in furs every spring to forts. those furs were then sent back to toronto and montreal. of course, eventually we took up the reserve system, and there were several rebellions (red river) but WE didn't try to wipe out the tribes.

 

[Playmaker]

Originally posted by: Mo0o
Boston Tea party was basically a terrorist act.

One of many by the colonists leading up to the American Revolution.

 

[narutofan36]

Originally posted by: Playmaker

Originally posted by: Mo0o
Boston Tea party was basically a terrorist act.

One of many by the colonists leading up to the American Revolution.

 

[touchmyichi]

I agree that the meaning of terrorism gets stretched out a lot these days. It seems to pretty much just mean anything that is evil when it is really much more specific. I wouldn't say America was founded by terrorism, only the boston tea party would really quality, but hardly. The only real blatant example of US terrorism is hiroshima- something that there can be no explanation otherwise (attack on civilians in order to increase fear of US capability)

 

[Pepsei]

Originally posted by: Mo0o

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Uhhh, you've watched too many old movies if you think the Indians were primarily the ones responsible for most of the scalpings going on. While some people believe that the practice was introduced by Europeans, it wasn't. But, Europeans were responsible for the majority of the scalpings going on. There were bounties being paid for Indian scalps. Most of the scalping of Europeans by Indians was done in retaliation. If not the Europeans doing the scalping, it was other Indian tribes who were encouraged by the Europeans to scalp their enemies. As soon as both sides had greatly weakened each other, thanks to the Europeans, the Europeans went in and completed the job.

Here's just one article of many... do a little googling. here

I agree, the Indians werent wholly innocent. Not in the least. Sure they were screwed on a couple of land deals, but hey that happens everyday. I still dont understand why they dont have to pay taxes on the billions their casinos make? They are Americans right?

How are the Indians at fault? Was it their fault that the British robbed their home, infected them with disease, destroyed nature, killed their tribes and ruined their lives?

Manifest destiny. America had to stretch from sea to shining sea. Integrate or be integrated. Reistance was futile for the Indians and some had to die to understand that.

Heres a tissue and a pat on the back. Its going to be ok. The Indians are thriving and prospering now. In fact tribal lands pay taxes, get thousands in free benes every year and are a protected minority group in charge of large swaths of land where they now practice 'sovereignty'. They also charge exorbitant tax free sums (recently quadrupled or quintipled due to skyrocketing nat gas) for rights or way. Anything else?

So it's ok to fvck people up as long as we pay them back later?

This sounds a lot like ... giving money to a group of people because of what happen to their ancestors... hmmm...

 

[Jeff7]

First we erradicated the native population. Then we engaged in what was at the time considered uncivil and unfair warfare. None of this "line up and fire at each other" stuff - we'd attack without warning, surprising people in the woods, and ambusing British troops. At the time, it was probably regarded closely to how we regard suicide bombers today.
Back then, I bet the British regarded us as the uncivilized insurgents, not heroic rebels. Guess what country is now viewing some other group as uncivilized insurgents. Hmm....

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat

Originally posted by: Aharami

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
The people who scalped people were terrorists.

oh america the great...can do no wrong, right?
do some research. you'll find that the american military in the 1800's committed govt sanctioned genocide agaisnt the native americans.

i cant believe people are so blind to america's history

I dont disagree with you. It happened on both sides. But why turn a blind eye to scalping?

you mean like General Custer and his crew?

Scalping was not an American Indian practice. it was a practice the french introduced to the "new world".

of course america was founded on terrorism, not only the OP's example but the Guerrilla warfare the Colonials used is terrorism according to the way our current govt uses the term.

iraqi's engaging in guerrilla warfare in iraq is no more terrorism than what the Colonials did to the british.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: DevilsAdvocate
Trollbait.

I resemble that remark! :|

 

[Eli]

Yes.