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Wartime whistleblowers should be court-martialed and inprisoned.

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Rogue:

I'm an ex-Marine so I'm not unfamiliar with the vagaries of the military. Your posts have been very helpful, by the way, in understanding what has been happening. It's been 40 years since I got out. 🙂

Anyway, Poodle Skirt Theories to the contrary notwithstanding, I agree that Rumsfeld should really resign and ditto for Wolfawitz and Feith. I suspect Feith as the major culprit in this, but I may be wrong.

If I were a Republican watching this free fall of my administration, to say nothing of the way this conduct is a black mark on the people such as yourself who spent a lifetime trying and succeeding for the most part in instilling notions of duty and honor in youngsters, I would quickly reconstitute the DOD and get this thing behind me because the elections are still 5 months away and it may be long forgotten come November.

I will reluctantly vote for Kerry and pray for America. This is a really sad chapter, and very reminscent of the 'Nam atrocities.

-Robert
 
Originally posted by: Passions
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1514&e=9&u=/afp/iraq_britain_prisoners

These kind of cases of abuse, etc, should be taken care of discretely and in private WITHIN the military system. Why bring it out to the public and undermine a war effort? Bunch of troublemaking, attention grabbing, FOOLS! There is no reason for public humiliation of the government. These whistleblowers are enemies of the government and should be inprisioned immediately!!! No sarcasm here, just plain truth.



Dead wrong Passions
 
Originally posted by: Passions
Originally posted by: earthman
Hmm, yeah, we wouldn't want anything as nasty as the TRUTH to come out, now, would we?

The truth can be handled privately in some situations. Wartime is a great example. Another would be an affair between parents, you don't need to bring that out in front of your children, RIGHT? That kind of info would only harm the children and scar them. In the same light, a wartime can be devastated and scarred with damaging info. Recognize!

When it comes to murder and rape, well, the truth needs to be told. Sweeping capital offenses under a rug is nonsense. Wartime or not, people need to act according to natural law.
 
Originally posted by: Passions
Originally posted by: earthman
Hmm, yeah, we wouldn't want anything as nasty as the TRUTH to come out, now, would we?

The truth can be handled privately in some situations. Wartime is a great example. Another would be an affair between parents, you don't need to bring that out in front of your children, RIGHT? That kind of info would only harm the children and scar them. In the same light, a wartime can be devastated and scarred with damaging info. Recognize!

This is our country. We own it. It works for us. Hiding what employees are doing, and letting them get away with it is just plain wrong.
 
Originally posted by: Passions
Originally posted by: earthman
Hmm, yeah, we wouldn't want anything as nasty as the TRUTH to come out, now, would we?

The truth can be handled privately in some situations. Wartime is a great example. Another would be an affair between parents, you don't need to bring that out in front of your children, RIGHT? That kind of info would only harm the children and scar them. In the same light, a wartime can be devastated and scarred with damaging info. Recognize!

What if daddy raped mommy and then killed her, should we keep it in the house? What a sicko you are that wants to hide the military (I'm not calling them our because I don't want to be associated with them) raping little boys and girls and killing/torturing prisoners. This is what happens when you get a bunch of uneducated rambos together.
 
hen, I would have dragged their sorry a$$es directly to the chain of command and done everything in my power to ensure that their career in the military was over.

You'd have to drag pretty far in this case since people perhaps as far up as the President approved it.
Then they would probably write you up for assault.
 
Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Originally posted by: Passions
Originally posted by: earthman
Hmm, yeah, we wouldn't want anything as nasty as the TRUTH to come out, now, would we?

The truth can be handled privately in some situations. Wartime is a great example. Another would be an affair between parents, you don't need to bring that out in front of your children, RIGHT? That kind of info would only harm the children and scar them. In the same light, a wartime can be devastated and scarred with damaging info. Recognize!

This is our country. We own it. It works for us. Hiding what employees are doing, and letting them get away with it is just plain wrong.
The issue is not hiding or allowing anybody to get away with anything. The issue is releasing photos during active hostilities that will get more people killed as opposed to going through the chain of command and keeping the process private till after active warfare stops. I feel that the commitment to the truth of disclosure is overridden in this case by the realization that the release of easily distributed inflamitory photographic evidence will cause more death. I see no reason why truth can't be served at a more appropriate and later time. And every one of you who was willing to go to war is in part responsible as is every one of us who failed to stop it.
 
Wartime whistleblowers and war time criminals should be court-martialed and inprisoned.

War policy makers should be imprisoned immeadiately also.
 
Alot of the abuse seems to be centered around a sole woman that has an alleged obsession with masochism.
 
I Think that this is important, but with so many threads on the subject I am not sure which one to post it in, so I guess I should post it in all of them...Well here goes,,,,,,,,,


Link



General Blames Abuse on Poor Leadership
General Says No Plan to Shut Iraq Prison, Blames Abuse on Poor Leadership and Disregard of Rules

The Associated Press



BAGHDAD, Iraq May 8, 2004 ? The head of U.S. detention centers in Iraq said Saturday the military has no plans to close the Abu Ghraib prison and blamed the abuse of detainees there on poor leadership and disregard for the rules.
Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller said the United States does intend to cut the number of prisoners to help improve conditions but added that "we will continue to conduct interrogation missions at the Abu Ghraib facility."





Miller was named head of prisons in April after Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the commander of Abu Ghraib, was suspended amid allegations of prisoner abuse by U.S. soldiers at the prison.

Six prison guards are facing criminal charges for alleged abuse of Iraqi prisonerss, and one has already been charged.

President Bush vowed Saturday that "we will learn all the facts and determine the full extent of these abuses. Those involved will be identified. They will answer for their actions."

Bush said all prison operations in Iraq will be reviewed "to make certain that similar disgraceful incidents are never repeated."

Miller said he visited all 14 prison facilities in Iraq to review procedures and that an Army team of 31 specialists was in the country retraining prison guards, a process that would last until June 30.

"We will ensure that we follow our procedures," he said. "It is a matter of honor. We were ashamed and embarrassed by the conduct of a very, very small number of our soldiers...On my honor, I will ensure that it will not happen again."

Miller said the "alleged abuses and abuses we have discovered from the investigations appear to be due to leaders and soldiers not following the authorized policy and lack of leadership and supervision."

Miller insisted that Iraqi prisoners were now being treated in accordance with the Geneva Conventions and that interrogation teams were following Army guidelines while trying to get "the best intelligence as rapidly as possible."

"I am satisfied that that system is following the provisions of the Geneva Conventions and assisting the coalition in providing actionable intelligence to help us win this fight for the freedom of Iraq," he said.

He said earlier in the week that he would halt or restrict some interrogation methods, especially eight to 10 "very aggressive techniques," including using hoods on prisoners, putting them in stressful positions and depriving them of sleep. He said those methods are now banned without specific approval.

Miller said there were no plans to close Abu Ghraib and that if orders are received to close the lockup, the military would probably shift the mission to another facility, Camp Bucca, south of Basra. Abu Ghraib was a notorious prison under Saddam Hussein where detainees were routinely tortured and sometimes executed.

Miller, the former commander of the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, led a 30-member team to Iraq in August and September that focused on ways of sharpening interrogation procedures.

In a report on the Abu Ghraib scandal, Maj. Gen. Anthony Taguba wrote that the team recommended "that the guard force be actively engaged in setting the conditions for successful exploitation of the internees."

Some military police at the prison have said they were instructed to "soften up" the prisoners before interrogation.

"There was no recommendation ever by this group ... that recommended that the military police become actively involved in the interrogation," Miller said.

Miller said he recommended that guards should monitor prisoners closely and pass on information to interrogators.

Military police "should be involved in passive intelligence collection," Miller said.

One of the soldiers facing charges, Spc. Sabrina Harman, said she and other members of the 372nd Military Police Company took direction from Army military intelligence officers, CIA operatives and from civilian contractors who conducted interrogations.

In an interview by e-mail from Baghdad, Harman told The Washington Post it was made clear that her mission was to break down the prisoners.

"They would bring in one to several prisoners at a time already hooded and cuffed," Harman said. "The job of the MP was to keep them awake, make it hell so they would talk."

Harman, 26, is one of two smiling soldiers seen in a photo taken at Abu Ghraib as they stand behind naked, hooded Iraqi prisoners stacked in a pyramid.

Miller said that in part he used his experience at Guantanamo to help reshape the interrogation process.

Miller has said that by the end of his stint at Guantanamo in March, intelligence tips had increased dramatically and that about three-quarters of the 600 detainees had confessed to some involvement in terrorism and many had exposed former friends. The detainees there were largely suspected of ties to the Taliban or the al-Qaida terror network.

Miller said he had a "high level of confidence" that proper procedures were now being implemented in Iraq.

"We may make honest mistakes ... but there will be no mistakes of moral turpitude," he said.


photo credit and caption: A U.S. Army military policeman leads a group of fresh detainees for interrogation inside the Abu Ghraib Prison on the outskirts of Baghdad, Iraq Saturday, May 8, 2004. American soldiers now at the prison arrived months after photos were taken showing prisoner abuse in late 2003.(AP Photo/John Moore)
 
I Think that this is important, but with so many threads on the subject I am not sure which one to post it in, so I guess I should post it in all of them...Well here goes,,,,,,,,,
I think you are retired USMC, right Ozoned? Yeah, poor unit leadership was a given in this situation. I knew as much before the 15-6 surfaced.
 
It boils down to people doing what they felt was the right thing to do for the right time sort of thing. These weren't just sissy prisoners they were abusing at Abu Ghraib. They were placed there for this very treatment. Anyone that thinks anything that happened at Abu Ghraib was unknown to superior officers is fooling themselves.

The wco's and low level officers were probably persuaded by the interogation experts (conveniently being poised as "contractors") to do as they wanted, considering these people are masters of human behavior and affective-character manipulation. Ron Dumsfeld may not have given any direction to these situations, but you can be sure he aggressively sought information on the insurgency at whatever cost it would take.

These insurgents are not "terrorists" in the common sense of the term. These are insurgents by every definition of the term, and may or may not be a majority of Iraqis. This is Islam versus the rest of the world in the very same sense it was thrown against the world after the turn of the 7th century. This is a counter-insurgency against the rest of the world that has come into an Islamic holy land. If the Muslims want their sons and daughters to die in Iraqi then its better there than in the West!
 
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