Warren Buffett: Stop blaming the rich for income inequality

[LegendKiller]

Should people who work a job expect a standard quality of life in America?
Americans have answered yes by instituting food stamp, welfare, medicare, etc. We provide for our poor in many ways.

The most effective means of providing for them is to cut out the middle man and simply pay Americans enough of a base income to skip the welfare. Don't we want people off the government dole? Pay them more.

We've already determined we want to ensure a certain standard of living. Now we just have to figure out the best way of achieving it.

Flatten the income scale by disincentivizing ridiculous pay for the top. How do you do that? 80% top tax bracket. Income and cap gains taxed at the same rate. Eliminate Carried Interest. Break up the banks to only 5% of the total deposit base in the country.

I don't give a shit about the extra income, it's social engineering I am after. When people realize that 80% Of whatever they make over $10mm/yr gets taxed at 80% they'll stop sucking the companies dry for every penny they can get.

 

[Darwin333]

If he had actually paid the taxes he should have he'd never have tried to accumulate the wealth he did.

Are you being serious or is my meter broken?

 

[Svnla]

Shut up troll. People don't blame the system not the players and you know it.

Speak English, dumb ass. Don't blame the system, and not the players. Who they blame? You?

 

[mrjminer]

Let me ask you, what was the wealth distribution like when America was prospering? What was the ratio of executive to worker pay? What was the top marginal tax rate? What was the capital gains tax rate? What was the estate tax rate? Was there something called Carried Interest? How many offshore tax havens were there? How many other ultra-high income earning tax loopholes were there? Did executives get paid in stock, or options, and try to drive tax advantageous financial engineering to prop up equity values at the expense of R&D?

This is what is laughable about ignorant people like you. You sit around and pontificate on shit you have no clue about. You've never considered anything beyond your nose.

All of that in the first paragraph is why Warren Buffet, and his friends, are as wealthy as they are. The amount of handouts they get dwarfs what "poor" people get by such a magnitude that it is staggering to even partially consider.

The entire reason why "poor" people need those handouts is because the rich people get far more.

And I am far from a socialist. I'm just a realist.

I'm aware of the difference in executive pay and tax differences from previous times and now, but that is in no way an excuse for the current state of affairs. The rich getting richer doesn't mean the poor are getting poorer as a direct result, which you seem to think is the case. Not to mention, laughably ignoring that much of the money that "the rich" have is not solely from the U.S.

"The rich" aren't some uber elite genius club that no regular person will ever be able to reach. They are simply people that did the things necessary to advance themselves at the time, and some happened to end up with more cards than others. Sure, some got lucky, too, but that's just the way it goes.

Food, shelter, sure, why not. Let's have those standards of living and give them to everyone for free. However, ignoring that putting people in situations where they have nothing to lose because they have these guarantees does not mean they are going to get incentivized to get these things they are already getting for free on their own.

Pretty much like everything else in life. Everyone starts from somewhere, and I don't think that starting people above the ground-level is a long-term working strategy. All it does it prevent people from advancing by meeting their basic needs.

Why housing? Why not give people an 8x8 with a bed, a faucet, a mini fridge, and a shitter? Everything they need to live -- unless they want to strive for more.

Why food stamps? Why are people permitted to get whatever they want on them? Why do they not just get bread, peanut butter, vitamins, milk, and water? Barring a medical condition that can't be rectified by one's own behavior, these five things will allow anyone in the world to survive. Why don't we do this, then implement programs that allow people to earn more items?

Like, hey, go help with paving this road and you can get some jelly to go with that peanut butter? Help out with tossing this roof up and you can upgrade to an 8x8 with a TV.

If you were a realist, perhaps you should realize reality. Reality is that any dumbass can get rich, and any dumbass can get higher pay if they really work towards it. People can even get lucky and get rich. Shit, I could drop $50 on the stock market, and just keep doubling up or better to millions or billions of dollars through sheer luck in less than a month. A person could seriously be richer than Warren Buffet in one month's time and never contribute anything else to society.

Reality is also like I said before: most people will do as little as they possibly can if they can, and if you are already giving them what they consider essential, they have nothing to gain.

 

[boomerang]

These same arguments have been going on since mankind moved past the barter system. There will always be the poor and there will always be someone who has more than someone else. Best to just get happy with it and move on with your life.

 

[blastingcap]

Speak English, dumb ass. Don't blame the system, and not the players. Who they blame? You?

You wrote the below straw man argument in broken English, and you have the gall to tell others to "speak English"? Nobody blames the rich, they blame a rigged system. But you already knew that, you fucking troll.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ing-the-rich-for-income-inequality/ar-BBk7Alo

The Oracle of Omaha has spoken, stop blaming the riches for the wrong(s) with the poors.

 

[Svnla]

You wrote the below straw man argument in broken English, and you have the gall to tell others to "speak English"? Nobody blames the rich, they blame a rigged system. But you already knew that, you fucking troll.

This is what you wrote in your first post in the thread:

People don't blame the system

You do NOT know what I know or not. You do not even know what you wrote.


Fucking Dumb Ass. Now shut the fuck up.

 

[MongGrel]

Good for you, but I'd hardly call "la la land" 70-80 hours of mandatory weekly work for 15 years.

You've another 25 years to go to catch up, but yeah, I don't do 70-80 anymore I guess.

And somehow, I've went backwards over time.

So I call Buffet full of shit personally.

Even if I invest in a few of the things he recommends, why wouldn't I.

 

[mrjminer]

You've another 25 years to go to catch up, but yeah, I don't do 70-80 anymore I guess.

And somehow, I've went backwards over time.

So I call Buffet full of shit personally.

Oh yea man, he is full of shit just like everyone else.

Anyways, I'm about done with 70-80 unless I start factoring in the shit I do on my own free time to expand my skills myself. Too much required shit for too long, gotta drop down to optional things for a mental break

 

[blastingcap]

This is what you wrote in your first post in the thread:

You do NOT know what I know or not. You do not even know what you wrote.

Fucking Dumb Ass. Now shut the fuck up.

Bitch, please. You had broken-ass English and criticize others for making a typo? Grow up.

And "You do NOT know what I know or not" is meaningless is this context. I wasn't commenting on what you "know or not," I was commenting that people in general don't hate rich people for being rich; if they hate anything, they hate class systems. The Founding Fathers of the USA especially hated European aristocracy and a permanent class system.

YOU, on the other hand, are trying to make it seems like poor people hate rich people; that it's some sort of jealousy thing. Prove it. YOU have the burden of proof, as the OP and thread-starter, not other people. Citation or go away. Good luck with that.

 

[Svnla]

Bitch, please. You had broken-ass English and criticize others for making a typo? Grow up.

And "You do NOT know what I know or not" is meaningless is this context. I wasn't commenting on what you "know or not," I was commenting that people in general don't hate rich people for being rich; if they hate anything, they hate class systems. The Founding Fathers of the USA especially hated European aristocracy and a permanent class system.

YOU, on the other hand, are trying to make it seems like poor people hate rich people; that it's some sort of jealousy thing. Prove it. YOU have the burden of proof, as the OP and thread-starter, not other people. Citation or go away. Good luck with that.

You came in the thread and acted like an asshole and started calling name, therefore, you need to get the FUCK out. Asshole. And then you said "grow up"? Fuck you. Asshole.

I do not have to prove anything to asshole like you. Don't like my thread or what I said? Stay. The. FUCK. Out.

Oh, where did I say poor people hate rich people as you claimed? Quote the EXACT words that I said that. Fucking lying asshole.

Four "fucks" and five "assholes" in one post is over the line. We know political discussions get heated, and replies often get personal, but this is too much. Please don't use such excessive profanity.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[blastingcap]

You came in the thread and acted like an asshole and started calling name, therefore, you need to get the FUCK out. Asshole. And then you said "grow up"? Fuck you. Asshole.

I do not have to prove anything to asshole like you. Don't like my thread or what I said? Stay. The. FUCK. Out.

Oh, where did I say poor people hate rich people as you claimed? Quote the EXACT words that I said that. Fucking lying asshole.

You implied that people are "blaming the riches for the wrong(s) with the poor."

Buffett didn't say that. YOU said that, and if you can't back up your editorializing, then don't try to twist what Buffett actually said to suit your own purposes.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ing-the-rich-for-income-inequality/ar-BBk7Alo

The Oracle of Omaha has spoken, stop blaming the riches for the wrong(s) with the poors.

 

[MCSEandbroke]

<P>

I'm aware of the difference in executive pay and tax differences from previous times and now, but that is in no way an excuse for the current state of affairs. The rich getting richer doesn't mean the poor are getting poorer as a direct result, which you seem to think is the case. Not to mention, laughably ignoring that much of the money that "the rich" have is not solely from the U.S.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>"The rich" aren't some uber elite genius club that no regular person will ever be able to reach. They are simply people that did the things necessary to advance themselves at the time, and some happened to end up with more cards than others. Sure, some got lucky, too, but that's just the way it goes.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Food, shelter, sure, why not. Let's have those standards of living and give them to everyone for free. However, ignoring that putting people in situations where they have nothing to lose because they have these guarantees does not mean they are going to get incentivized to get these things they are already getting for free on their own.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Pretty much like everything else in life. Everyone starts from somewhere, and I don't think that starting people above the ground-level is a long-term working strategy. All it does it prevent people from advancing by meeting their basic needs.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Why housing? Why not give people an 8x8 with a bed, a faucet, a mini fridge, and a shitter? Everything they need to live -- unless they want to strive for more.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Why food stamps? Why are people permitted to get whatever they want on them? Why do they not just get bread, peanut butter, vitamins, milk, and water? Barring a medical condition that can't be rectified by one's own behavior, these five things will allow anyone in the world to survive. Why don't we do this, then implement programs that allow people to earn more items?</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Like, hey, go help with paving this road and you can get some jelly to go with that peanut butter? Help out with tossing this roof up and you can upgrade to an 8x8 with a TV.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>If you were a realist, perhaps you should realize reality. Reality is that any dumbass can get rich, and any dumbass can get higher pay if they really work towards it. People can even get lucky and get rich. Shit, I could drop $50 on the stock market, and just keep doubling up or better to millions or billions of dollars through sheer luck in less than a month. A person could seriously be richer than Warren Buffet in one month's time and never contribute anything else to society.</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>Reality is also like I said before: most people will do as little as they possibly can if they can, and if you are already giving them what they consider essential, they have nothing to gain.

</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>You are full of it. You have no idea how hard it is to come out of homelessness.....I have first hand experience, going on 3 years now, and I have worked very hard.... I tried to pursue a better life only to be exposed to the reality of some kind of discrimination....I have been so dedicated to technology and Microsoft certifications only to loose everything pursuing my career.....How many times do you think a person can pay for Drycleaning a suit for an interview, or pay for gas, or a monthly bus pass before a person goes broke just looking for work....Do you honestly think someone unemployed can continue this for 3 years.....Do you really believe Local Shelters are doing their part?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; They run things like a business too...They cheat you out of your government benefits....</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>The rich people have done far too much engineering to stagnate the poor trying to pursue work....Ever wonder why all the good paying engineer jobs are usually very remote and difficult to reach by public transportation...You don't have a clue... I think you were either just really lucky, white and/or a silver spoon child....</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>I think that you have issues and a lot of pent up hate....so you get on the computer and state your rage, but other people can see through you..</P>

 

[LegendKiller]

Are you being serious or is my meter broken?

You ever look at the structure of his deals in the last 50 years youll understand what I am saying.

 

[Mai72]

I think the opposite group of people are delusional and in denial. There is no great big rich boogey man shaking down people for their measly $10 an hour. Most people make what they are worth because --- and get this concept --- most people are worth shit! Really. Cashier at McDonald's worth $15 an hour? That is a joke. Nothing like lowering the bar to not even requiring addition and subtraction.

The reason people don't make money is because they don't work to better themselves. The reason they don't want to better themselves is because it has become too easy for them not to, and people are inherently lazy. You can live off practically nothing in this country and still easily have a job and save money, but most people will not do that. Most people will take their $8 an hour, buy an iPhone, pay $100 a month to ATT, then just sit on their ass and watch TV thinking to themselves how the rich are stopping them from succeeding in life. All while not even bothering to vote.

Sure, there are some policies in place that screw people, but it goes both ways, rich and non-rich. People don't want to accept responsibility for their actions. Why do you think 3 year olds break shit then when you ask them about it their response is something along the lines of "I don't know?" Human nature leans towards avoiding blaming yourself, and some people never grow out of it.

There was the story here the other day about the dumbass that has to have some sort of eye surgery because he was too fucking stupid to get insurance. Yet, he started some fundraiser page for the $30k he needed -- but lives in like a $300k house and smokes. He blames Obama for his situation, and it's insane. That is the level of intelligence and responsibility you have to consider when thinking of the general population.

People will bitch, cry, and moan that they can't ever get ahead or whatever, but it is largely bullshit. This is America and, believe it or not, people can usually go out and be what they want to be if they put in the time and effort. The issue is that most people don't, because they would rather do shit like read about how Chris Brown is fighting with Beyoncé or something. Especially with the advent of the internet, and the large amount of knowledge on practically any field or trade in the world, you have to actively avoid bettering yourself in order to hold yourself down, and most people do.

The way you get people to better themselves is by removing some social welfare / safety net programs. Hard reality, and I'm sure a bunch of nimrods will respond to me and be like "omgz statistsic show all of these billions of dollars don't just let worthless lazy fucks sit around and do little to contribute," but it's the obvious truth. People work when they are incentivized with immediately gratifying things. Pretty easy to get incentivized to better yourself into a person that can make more money if you don't have your own food or shelter, pretty hard when you just give everything people need to meet their basic needs, and counting on them to magically climb of Maslow's hierarchy after not even making them succeed at the first step themselves.

Reminds me of a quote Jim Rohn once said...

You don't get paid for the hour. You get paid for the value you bring to the hour.

I think most people don't understand this concept. If you really want to be successful, people should focus on raising the value they bring to the hour. Is it really worthwhile for a company to pay someone $15 an hour to sling hamburgers? If you wanted to stay with McDonalds why not move up, go to school and become a manager or even a GM. You even have the opportunity to work corporate for McDonald's. That's a good way to increase your value and in return you could make a nice living.

I fear that this is going to be the start of automation for a lot of big businesses. They are probably now working on ways to eliminate many entry level positions. And why shouldn't they? In the end it's going to save them a lot of money and the upkeep is going to be minimal. Plus, machines don't call out sick and they will gladly do their job 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

I do think income equality is going to be a huge issue as we move forward. The problem is we've shipped out a lot of good paying jobs. This is why poverty, crime and drug use is such a epidemic in the inner city. Another reason why our jails are overflowing with criminals. This doesn't do our society any good. The poverty cycle is vicious. It's generational. You have people who have been on welfare for decades. How do you retrain these people when all they've known is welfare, HUD, etc... It's a daunting task that nobody knows the answer. We've created this beast. Now, we have to fix it. I don't think eliminating or decreasing welfare is the answer. If our government does this, they had better have something in place for these people. If not, we could face riots, looting and the crime rate could go thru the roof.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I don't blame the rich for anything as a group. I do blame SOME of the rich for using high unemployment rates to treat people poorly and use excessive amounts of money to influence Politicians. I simply cannot believe anyone would dump tens to hundreds of millions into super pacs to get someone elected then expect no special treatment or access.

 

[MCSEandbroke]

So, when America and it's people were prospering, people pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. Now, though, when people are simply given things, they aren't. Yea, you really hit the nail on the head.



Touché. But I will say that just because people get paid only for how much a job is worth doesn't mean that they have skills warranting a job that has a higher worth



Yea, I worked 30+ hours a week in high school starting at 16. Full-time through most of going to college full time and a few part-time fillers when I couldn't handle the work and class-load, and full-time now with the occasional contract on the side. How about you?

---

Anyways, you guys seem to think that people can't work their way up, which is laughable. This is still the land of opportunity, regardless. Anyone can do pretty much anything they put their mind -- they just don't. Sure, you are limited by your genetics in some manner (ie: not everyone is going to be Albert Einstein), but you can't discount that many people could accomplish more than they do if they put their mind to it. You can think it's because of the looming shadow of Warren Buffett if you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that:

1. Most people will be lazy if they can
2. Most people will skate on the minimum if they can
3. Most people will take things without giving an equivalent back if they can
4. Most people will do things they consider fun even if it does little to nothing to improve themselves if they can

These things are human nature. Do you think cavemen went around clubbing wolves on the head just because they wanted to improve their hunting skills, or because they needed food to survive? After they had enough to survive, did they go out and club a bunch of other animals just so they could get better at hunting, or did they just kind of fuck around for the rest of the day? There are few motivators for people that overcome laziness, and the one they all lead to is survival.

I don't think you guys take into account that the majority of people in reality are not the majority of people on this forum. The majority of people care more about the Kardashians than achieving something.

You're too intelligent to realize how stupid you are...

 

[LegendKiller]

I'm aware of the difference in executive pay and tax differences from previous times and now, but that is in no way an excuse for the current state of affairs. The rich getting richer doesn't mean the poor are getting poorer as a direct result, which you seem to think is the case. Not to mention, laughably ignoring that much of the money that "the rich" have is not solely from the U.S.

"The rich" aren't some uber elite genius club that no regular person will ever be able to reach. They are simply people that did the things necessary to advance themselves at the time, and some happened to end up with more cards than others. Sure, some got lucky, too, but that's just the way it goes.

Food, shelter, sure, why not. Let's have those standards of living and give them to everyone for free. However, ignoring that putting people in situations where they have nothing to lose because they have these guarantees does not mean they are going to get incentivized to get these things they are already getting for free on their own.

Pretty much like everything else in life. Everyone starts from somewhere, and I don't think that starting people above the ground-level is a long-term working strategy. All it does it prevent people from advancing by meeting their basic needs.

Why housing? Why not give people an 8x8 with a bed, a faucet, a mini fridge, and a shitter? Everything they need to live -- unless they want to strive for more.

Why food stamps? Why are people permitted to get whatever they want on them? Why do they not just get bread, peanut butter, vitamins, milk, and water? Barring a medical condition that can't be rectified by one's own behavior, these five things will allow anyone in the world to survive. Why don't we do this, then implement programs that allow people to earn more items?

Like, hey, go help with paving this road and you can get some jelly to go with that peanut butter? Help out with tossing this roof up and you can upgrade to an 8x8 with a TV.

If you were a realist, perhaps you should realize reality. Reality is that any dumbass can get rich, and any dumbass can get higher pay if they really work towards it. People can even get lucky and get rich. Shit, I could drop $50 on the stock market, and just keep doubling up or better to millions or billions of dollars through sheer luck in less than a month. A person could seriously be richer than Warren Buffet in one month's time and never contribute anything else to society.

Reality is also like I said before: most people will do as little as they possibly can if they can, and if you are already giving them what they consider essential, they have nothing to gain.

The rich are getting richer at the poors expense. It is a share of gdp and the lesser the share the harder it is to keep up a standard of living. I agree that people are missing allocating spending but that isn't all of it, not by a long shot.

Trade agreements, offshoring, and chinization of global labor arbitrage has enriched the wealthy at the expense of the middle and lower classes. Had we actually had a political class motivated to protect those classes, like germany, we'd be far better off. Look at the slice of the pies there and the Nordic countries, far different.

 

[mrjminer]

<P></P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>You are full of it. You have no idea how hard it is to come out of homelessness.....I have first hand experience, going on 3 years now, and I have worked very hard.... I tried to pursue a better life only to be exposed to the reality of some kind of discrimination....I have been so dedicated to technology and Microsoft certifications only to loose everything pursuing my career.....How many times do you think a person can pay for Drycleaning a suit for an interview, or pay for gas, or a monthly bus pass before a person goes broke just looking for work....Do you honestly think someone unemployed can continue this for 3 years.....Do you really believe Local Shelters are doing their part?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; They run things like a business too...They cheat you out of your government benefits....</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>The rich people have done far too much engineering to stagnate the poor trying to pursue work....Ever wonder why all the good paying engineer jobs are usually very remote and difficult to reach by public transportation...You don't have a clue... I think you were either just really lucky, white and/or a silver spoon child....</P>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>I think that you have issues and a lot of pent up hate....so you get on the computer and state your rage, but other people can see through you..</P>

Well then, perhaps you should have opted to start lower on the ladder when you needed to instead of choosing more difficult fields to land a job in off the bat. I've had a fair amount of jobs, and often bounced back and forth between decent jobs and shitty jobs. One thing I always did, though, was taken any job when I needed one instead of the alternative.

Reminds me of a quote Jim Rohn once said...

I think most people don't understand this concept. If you really want to be successful, people should focus on raising the value they bring to the hour. Is it really worthwhile for a company to pay someone $15 an hour to sling hamburgers? If you wanted to stay with McDonalds why not move up, go to school and become a manager or even a GM. You even have the opportunity to work corporate for McDonald's. That's a good way to increase your value and in return you could make a nice living.

I fear that this is going to be the start of automation for a lot of big businesses. They are probably now working on ways to eliminate many entry level positions. And why shouldn't they? In the end it's going to save them a lot of money and the upkeep is going to be minimal. Plus, machines don't call out sick and they will gladly do their job 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

I do think income equality is going to be a huge issue as we move forward. The problem is we've shipped out a lot of good paying jobs. This is why poverty, crime and drug use is such a epidemic in the inner city. Another reason why our jails are overflowing with criminals. This doesn't do our society any good. The poverty cycle is vicious. It's generational. You have people who have been on welfare for decades. How do you retrain these people when all they've known is welfare, HUD, etc... It's a daunting task that nobody knows the answer. We've created this beast. Now, we have to fix it. I don't think eliminating or decreasing welfare is the answer. If our government does this, they had better have something in place for these people. If not, we could face riots, looting and the crime rate could go thru the roof.

Indeed, automation is going to happen with a $15 / hour wage. I think people are dreaming if they think otherwise. They've made machines that have built, cooked, and served hamburgers for a long, long time. There was some youtube clip I caught in OT a few months back that had a hamburger machine from like the 60's that literally built the hamburger and cooked it to order. I was surprised at how long ago they had them, but, moreso, why they have even bothered with paying employees all these years. Same with voice technology now, and touch screens. Almost everything at all restaurants could be automated with very, very little effort -- and a surprisingly low cost, especially compared to paying an employee. If any problems occur, just have a line to a manager located somewhere else to remote in and do an override or something. All a fast food place would really need is a delivery person, and someone to put the food in the machines if they don't just pay the delivery guy to stock it up.

As for reductions, not saying it will be pretty, but things of necessity rarely are pretty. Needs to happen before too many people get on the tit, though, or the providers will be outnumbered by the leeches, then the entire country is going to become New China.

The rich are getting richer at the poors expense. It is a share of gdp and the lesser the share the harder it is to keep up a standard of living. I agree that people are missing allocating spending but that isn't all of it, not by a long shot.

Trade agreements, offshoring, and chinization of global labor arbitrage has enriched the wealthy at the expense of the middle and lower classes. Had we actually had a political class motivated to protect those classes, like germany, we'd be far better off. Look at the slice of the pies there and the Nordic countries, far different.

Indeed, politicians and money do come into play in some form, but my point is that it can all be offset by effort. The effort is going to depend on a ton of shit, like how quickly someone can learn things, what background they have (ie: did they fuck off during their entire stint in education and can't even read, etc.), luck, timing, etc.

I think our difference here is that you keep using standard of living as something people should inherently get and which provides them more than life. My take on standard of living is: you have the minimum required to keep you alive until you otherwise earn a higher standard of living through your own means. If people don't like it, then they can get fucked -- until they want to put some more effort into bettering themselves.

You're too intelligent to realize how stupid you are...

Well then... thanks and screw you at the same time :thumbsup:

 

[MCSEandbroke]

I'm aware of the difference in executive pay and tax differences from previous times and now, but that is in no way an excuse for the current state of affairs. The rich getting richer doesn't mean the poor are getting poorer as a direct result, which you seem to think is the case. Not to mention, laughably ignoring that much of the money that "the rich" have is not solely from the U.S.

"The rich" aren't some uber elite genius club that no regular person will ever be able to reach. They are simply people that did the things necessary to advance themselves at the time, and some happened to end up with more cards than others. Sure, some got lucky, too, but that's just the way it goes.

Food, shelter, sure, why not. Let's have those standards of living and give them to everyone for free. However, ignoring that putting people in situations where they have nothing to lose because they have these guarantees does not mean they are going to get incentivized to get these things they are already getting for free on their own.

Pretty much like everything else in life. Everyone starts from somewhere, and I don't think that starting people above the ground-level is a long-term working strategy. All it does it prevent people from advancing by meeting their basic needs.

Why housing? Why not give people an 8x8 with a bed, a faucet, a mini fridge, and a shitter? Everything they need to live -- unless they want to strive for more.

Why food stamps? Why are people permitted to get whatever they want on them? Why do they not just get bread, peanut butter, vitamins, milk, and water? Barring a medical condition that can't be rectified by one's own behavior, these five things will allow anyone in the world to survive. Why don't we do this, then implement programs that allow people to earn more items?

Like, hey, go help with paving this road and you can get some jelly to go with that peanut butter? Help out with tossing this roof up and you can upgrade to an 8x8 with a TV.

If you were a realist, perhaps you should realize reality. Reality is that any dumbass can get rich, and any dumbass can get higher pay if they really work towards it. People can even get lucky and get rich. Shit, I could drop $50 on the stock market, and just keep doubling up or better to millions or billions of dollars through sheer luck in less than a month. A person could seriously be richer than Warren Buffet in one month's time and never contribute anything else to society.

Reality is also like I said before: most people will do as little as they possibly can if they can, and if you are already giving them what they consider essential, they have nothing to gain.

http://www.examiner.com/article/dam...dies-homeless-beauty-queen-reign-tainted-life


This could be you in your own chain of circumstances. This lady (homeless) was a beauty queen with a Law degree who died alone, homeless in a park...

 

[mrjminer]

http://www.examiner.com/article/dam...dies-homeless-beauty-queen-reign-tainted-life


This could be you in your own chain of circumstances. This lady (homeless) was a beauty queen with a Law degree who died alone, homeless in a park...

After winning the beauty title it was not clear why she decided not to pursue a career in law, which is what she had originally planned to do with her educational background. Could it be she waited for that big break in fame? When the offers that usually come along with winning such a prestigious beauty pageant never materialized, like acting, doing commercials and modeling, Ruiz went in a totally different direction.
She opted to sell homemade crafts, including junk jewelry. Ruiz, who never had a relationship in love as far as anyone knows, lived with her brother. This brother was said to be jealous of his sister and he didn&#8217;t allow her any freedom.

Yea, I don't know why she ended up in the position she did. Could it perhaps be that she was a moron that chose to get a law degree, then not use it so she could sit around and make trinkets? Or maybe that she never bothered finding a spouse that could support her while she sat at home doing arts and crafts? I'm going with one of those.

 

[MCSEandbroke]

I have learn a few things having to live amongst the bottom. Relationships, are the biggest factor why people end up broke and homeless...most men living at these shelters are do to women in their lives, but it can be other types of relationships as well. Too many divorces forcing costs to be broken up. One minute you are paying for one house, then you split up and now one family is living out of two homes, kids going back and forth...But again it can be any kind of relationships....friends at work that turn sour, now you're out of a job, or some other situation where the relationship you had with someone knows everybody in town, and has ruined your reputation. Now people can follow you on LinkedIn looking for an opportunity to hurt your chances at a career...Even employers have gone too far spying on you through social media....

We just might be able to restore our economy by fixing our relationships with our employers, friends and family. Corporations have to change...they can not be considered as a person with rights....a person should be only considered as a person...that's how they beat us because they are always claiming all these rights when the rights should be superseded by real life people and the peoples rights first...

 

[Darwin333]

You ever look at the structure of his deals in the last 50 years youll understand what I am saying.

Oh I have no doubt that he did everything he could to avoid paying as much taxes as he could but to say that he wouldn't have still done it if he would have had to pay those taxes seems like a huge stretch to me.

 

[LegendKiller]

Oh I have no doubt that he did everything he could to avoid paying as much taxes as he could but to say that he wouldn't have still done it if he would have had to pay those taxes seems like a huge stretch to me.

What I pretty much said is that he wouldn't be as wealthy as he is, not even close. The cumulative effect of 15-30% tax rates on his deals would negate a huge portion of his wealth.

Even his "giving" of it to the Gates foundation was done tax free.

 

[MCSEandbroke]

Well then, perhaps you should have opted to start lower on the ladder when you needed to instead of choosing more difficult fields to land a job in off the bat. I've had a fair amount of jobs, and often bounced back and forth between decent jobs and shitty jobs. One thing I always did, though, was taken any job when I needed one instead of the alternative.




Indeed, automation is going to happen with a $15 / hour wage. I think people are dreaming if they think otherwise. They've made machines that have built, cooked, and served hamburgers for a long, long time. There was some youtube clip I caught in OT a few months back that had a hamburger machine from like the 60's that literally built the hamburger and cooked it to order. I was surprised at how long ago they had them, but, moreso, why they have even bothered with paying employees all these years. Same with voice technology now, and touch screens. Almost everything at all restaurants could be automated with very, very little effort -- and a surprisingly low cost, especially compared to paying an employee. If any problems occur, just have a line to a manager located somewhere else to remote in and do an override or something. All a fast food place would really need is a delivery person, and someone to put the food in the machines if they don't just pay the delivery guy to stock it up.

As for reductions, not saying it will be pretty, but things of necessity rarely are pretty. Needs to happen before too many people get on the tit, though, or the providers will be outnumbered by the leeches, then the entire country is going to become New China.



Indeed, politicians and money do come into play in some form, but my point is that it can all be offset by effort. The effort is going to depend on a ton of shit, like how quickly someone can learn things, what background they have (ie: did they fuck off during their entire stint in education and can't even read, etc.), luck, timing, etc.

I think our difference here is that you keep using standard of living as something people should inherently get and which provides them more than life. My take on standard of living is: you have the minimum required to keep you alive until you otherwise earn a higher standard of living through your own means. If people don't like it, then they can get fucked -- until they want to put some more effort into bettering themselves.



Well then... thanks and screw you at the same time :thumbsup:

Im currently signed up with Labor Ready. Its next to impossible to get to job sites on public transportation....I have worked as many jobs as you if not more... im 48 years old....it was easy to get a job in the 80s. I have 15 years of a pension that I can claim at 50. I was a technician for 15 years reading Telemetry....I went back to school in 2007 to pursue IT...Things can happen....your theory is wrong......


You say kicking the crutch out from under these people will kick in their survivor skills.. True, not in the way you would think....there aren't enough jobs...what will happen is it will bring back the animal part of brain, and they will knock your head off for your money....