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Warning From a Student of Democracy's Collapse

BBond

Diamond Member
From the NY Times' "Public Lives" section:

Warning From a Student of Democracy's Collapse">Warning From a Student of Democracy's Collapse</a>

By CHRIS HEDGES

Published: January 6, 2005

PRINCETON, N.J.

FRITZ STERN, a refugee from Hitler's Germany and a leading scholar of European history, startled several of his listeners when he warned in a speech about the danger posed in this country by the rise of the Christian right. In his address in November, just after he received a prize presented by the German foreign minister, he told his audience that Hitler saw himself as "the instrument of providence" and fused his "racial dogma with a Germanic Christianity."

"Some people recognized the moral perils of mixing religion and politics," he said of prewar Germany, "but many more were seduced by it. It was the pseudo-religious transfiguration of politics that largely ensured his success, notably in Protestant areas."

Dr. Stern's speech, given during a ceremony at which he got the prize from the Leo Baeck Institute, a center focused on German Jewish history, was certainly provocative. The fascism of Nazi Germany belongs to a world so horrendous it often seems to defy the possibility of repetition or analogy. But Dr. Stern, 78, the author of books like "The Politics of Cultural Despair: A Study in the Rise of the Germanic Ideology" and university professor emeritus at Columbia University, has devoted a lifetime to analyzing how the Nazi barbarity became possible. He stops short of calling the Christian right fascist but his decision to draw parallels, especially in the uses of propaganda, was controversial.

"When I saw the speech my eyes lit up," said John R. MacArthur, whose book "Second Front" examines wartime propaganda. "The comparison between the propagandistic manipulation and uses of Christianity, then and now, is hidden in plain sight. No one will talk about it. No one wants to look at it."

Dr. Stern was a schoolboy in 1933 when Hitler was appointed the German chancellor. He ran home from school that January afternoon clutching a special edition of the newspaper to deliver to his father, a prominent physician.

"I was young," he said, "but I knew it was very bad news."

The street fighting in his native Breslau (now Wroclaw in Poland) between Communists and Nazis, the collapse of German democracy and the ruthless suppression of all opposition marked his childhood, and were images and experiences that would propel him forward as a scholar.

"I saw one of the last public demonstrations against Hitler," he said. "Men, women and children walked through the street and chanted 'Hunger! Hunger! Hunger!' "

His paternal grandparents had converted to Christianity. His parents were baptized at birth, as were Mr. Stern and his older sister. But this did not save the Sterns from persecution. Nazi racial laws still classified them as Jews.

"It was only Nazi anti-Semitism that made me conscious of my Jewish heritage," he said. "I had been brought up in a secular Christian fashion, celebrating Christmas and Easter. My father had to explain it to me."

His schoolmates were swiftly recruited into Hitler youth groups and he and other Jews were taunted and excluded from some activities.

"Many of my classmates found the organized party experience, which included a heavy dose of flag waving and talk of national strength, very exhilarating," said Dr. Stern, who lost an aunt and an uncle in the Holocaust. "It was something I never forgot."

His family fled to New York in 1938 when he was 12. He eventually went to Columbia University intending to study medicine. But his passion for the past, along with questions about what happened to his homeland, caused him to switch his focus to history. He wanted to grasp how democracies disintegrate. He wanted to uncover the warning signs other democracies should heed. He wanted to write about the seductiveness of authoritarian movements, which he once described in an essay, "National Socialism as Temptation."

"There was a longing in Europe for fascism before the name was ever invented," he said. "There was a longing for a new authoritarianism with some kind of religious orientation and above all a greater communal belongingness. There are some similarities in the mood then and the mood now, although also significant differences."

HE warns of the danger in an open society of "mass manipulation of public opinion, often mixed with mendacity and forms of intimidation." He is a passionate defender of liberalism as "manifested in the spirit of the Enlightenment and the early years of the American republic."

"The radical right and the radical left see liberalism's appeal to reason and tolerance as the denial of their uniform ideology," he said. "Every democracy needs a liberal fundament, a Bill of Rights enshrined in law and spirit, for this alone gives democracy the chance for self-correction and reform. Without it, the survival of democracy is at risk. Every genuine conservative knows this."

Dr. Stern, who has two children from a previous marriage, is married to Elizabeth Sifton, a book publisher. They live in New York. He is writing a book called "Five Germanys I Have Known," a combination of memoirs and reflections that looks at Weimar, Nazi Germany, the Federal Republic of Germany, East Germany and unified Germany. He is widely read in Germany and has won its highest literary prize.

"The Jews in Central Europe welcomed the Russian Revolution," he said, "but it ended badly for them. The tacit alliance between the neo-cons and the Christian right is less easily understood. I can imagine a similarly disillusioning outcome."

 
Originally posted by: Centinel
I for one welcome our new monkey overlords

*adjusts tinfoil hat*

So easy to throw labels, isn't it?

Do you disagree that mixing religion and politics is a bad idea?
 
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Centinel
I for one welcome our new monkey overlords

*adjusts tinfoil hat*

So easy to throw labels, isn't it?

Do you disagree that mixing religion and politics is a bad idea?
Is mixing aethism and politics a good idea? :shocked:
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Centinel
I for one welcome our new monkey overlords

*adjusts tinfoil hat*

So easy to throw labels, isn't it?

Do you disagree that mixing religion and politics is a bad idea?
Is mixing aethism and politics a good idea? :shocked:

Couldnt have said it better myself alchemize

...and yes, I agree mixing religion and politics is a bad idea. However children singing christmas carols is not mixing politics and religion.
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Centinel
I for one welcome our new monkey overlords

*adjusts tinfoil hat*

So easy to throw labels, isn't it?

Do you disagree that mixing religion and politics is a bad idea?
Is mixing aethism and politics a good idea? :shocked:

Not mixing religion into politics isn't mixing atheism into it - until everyone agrees on one religion it has no place in politics.
 
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Centinel
I for one welcome our new monkey overlords

*adjusts tinfoil hat*

So easy to throw labels, isn't it?

Do you disagree that mixing religion and politics is a bad idea?
Is mixing aethism and politics a good idea? :shocked:

Not mixing religion into politics isn't mixing atheism into it - until everyone agrees on one religion it has no place in politics.

At the expense of the free exercise of religion by all people?
 
Don't we already have it here?

Have you voted the wrong way lately? Remember our military might is superior, and the nation is also superior to all others, and those who do not think that way are unpatriotic and must be reported to the department of motherland defense.
 
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
Don't we already have it here?

Have you voted the wrong way lately? Remember our military might is superior, and the nation is also superior to all others, and those who do not think that way are unpatriotic and must be reported to the department of motherland defense.

Ok, what was the point of this post?
 
Sorry, i've got more important things than to read a book by John Stewart.

Now, what was the point of your post?
 
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
Don't we already have it here?

Have you voted the wrong way lately? Remember our military might is superior, and the nation is also superior to all others, and those who do not think that way are unpatriotic and must be reported to the department of motherland defense.

Ok, what was the point of this post?

Our military is superior, our culture is superior, our economy is superior, etc etc. Sound familiar?

I thought the germans called it the fatherland though... I know the russians had the motherland.... Anyways we have the "Homeland"
 
Our military is superior....our economy is superior. Whether our culture is or not is purely subjective.

So?

What does this have to do with the free exercise of religion in the US?
 
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Anyone else recall the "debate" leading up to Iraq war, or the Patriot act, etc. IMHO it sounded quite a bit like this.
 
Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Our military is superior, our culture is superior, our economy is superior, etc etc. Sound familiar?

I thought the germans called it the fatherland though... I know the russians had the motherland.... Anyways we have the "Homeland"
Sickening how being politically correct has even infected good old fashion fascism, eh?
 
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Anyone else recall the "debate" leading up to Iraq war, or the Patriot act, etc. IMHO it sounded quite a bit like this.

Hey Mike that's special and all, but what does it have to do with my question?
 
Originally posted by: Centinel
Our military is superior....our economy is superior. Whether our culture is or not is purely subjective.

So?
everyone thinks their own culture is the best. Look at the french.


What does this have to do with the free exercise of religion in the US?

The question is what does the radical right have against this, as they clearly have a problem with it.
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Our military is superior, our culture is superior, our economy is superior, etc etc. Sound familiar?

I thought the germans called it the fatherland though... I know the russians had the motherland.... Anyways we have the "Homeland"
Sickening how being politically correct has even infected good old fashion fascism, eh?

? 😕

who brought up political correctness?
 
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Anyone else recall the "debate" leading up to Iraq war, or the Patriot act, etc. IMHO it sounded quite a bit like this.

Hey Mike that's special and all, but what does it have to do with my question?

this has nothing to do with your post, read the OP first.
 
Mike:

The radical right have a problem with the free exercise of religion?

Last time I checked I didnt see any christian church groups protesting the inclusion of Jewish or Arabic holiday traditions.

I seemed to only see that coming from the left.....

 
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: lozina
Originally posted by: Centinel
I for one welcome our new monkey overlords

*adjusts tinfoil hat*

So easy to throw labels, isn't it?

Do you disagree that mixing religion and politics is a bad idea?
Is mixing aethism and politics a good idea? :shocked:

Couldnt have said it better myself alchemize

...and yes, I agree mixing religion and politics is a bad idea. However children singing christmas carols is not mixing politics and religion.

so you failed to recognize any religious references in the Bush Administration except for children singing Christmas carols? Well, I guess if you're not looking it's natural you won't find anything 🙂
 
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Our military is superior, our culture is superior, our economy is superior, etc etc. Sound familiar?

I thought the germans called it the fatherland though... I know the russians had the motherland.... Anyways we have the "Homeland"
Sickening how being politically correct has even infected good old fashion fascism, eh?

? 😕

who brought up political correctness?
I was just being sarcastic 😀
 
Originally posted by: Centinel
Mike:

The radical right have a problem with the free exercise of religion?

Last time I checked I didnt see any christian church groups protesting the inclusion of Jewish or Arabic holiday traditions.

I seemed to only see that coming from the left.....

So forcefully injecting christianity into the legal, political and economic systems is considered practicing the free exercise of religion?
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Our military is superior, our culture is superior, our economy is superior, etc etc. Sound familiar?

I thought the germans called it the fatherland though... I know the russians had the motherland.... Anyways we have the "Homeland"
Sickening how being politically correct has even infected good old fashion fascism, eh?

? 😕

who brought up political correctness?
I was just being sarcastic 😀

Sometimes I get confused easily 😉.
 
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