Warming up a car

[bradly1101]

Sugar in the gas tank makes the exhaust smell sweeter. [/s]

 

[Muse]

It seems to me like a harmless thing to have the neighbor warm up is car, but then maybe you are a lot closer to your neighbors than I am.

It's not harmless. His car is literally less than 15 feet from my house and upwind. His exhaust wafts over my property and gets in the house. I can't stay outside when this is happening and even inside it's very unhealthy.

He isn't doing this to get toasty in his car. It's been at least in the middle 50s during the days, often into the 60s.

Yesterday I was leaving the house on my bicycle and spotted him pulling out of his driveway. I heralded him, asking his name. He responds by asking mine. I tell him and he tells me his. He then asks if I got an answer (as I said in the OP, I left off the conversation I had with him just before I made that OP by saying "I'll look into it."). I say I found out that people were saying that a 5 minute warm up should be sufficient in this environment. He responds by saying "you're an environmental person?" I go "you know, I had a bad headache after that happened the other day, it was the worst headache I've ever had and it lasted into the night." He goes "we'll talk about it..." and drives off.

I really am worried about this guy. He's not coming off as reasonable and friendly or accommodating. I honestly think what he's doing may be seriously affecting my health. It's certainly a major inconvenience when I have to go indoors unexpectedly.

 

[Yuriman]

My opinion, you're going about this all wrong. What I'm reading of your opinion is "I don't like the smell of exhaust in my house, and he's upwind of me", which is a position I can empathize with, but what I'm reading you telling him is "there are a lot of reasons you shouldn't be idling your car which have absolutely nothing to do with the reason I'm actually concerned".

 

[bruceb]

Report him to the local Police or to CARB ... They have rules against unnecessary idling and he can be fined. He will get the message. Of course, you might need to move to avoid retaliation from him.

 

[Muse]

My opinion, you're going about this all wrong. What I'm reading of your opinion is "I don't like the smell of exhaust in my house, and he's upwind of me", which is a position I can empathize with, but what I'm reading you telling him is "there are a lot of reasons you shouldn't be idling your car which have absolutely nothing to do with the reason I'm actually concerned".

Did you read my last post? I told him (yesterday) that when I spoke to him the other day when he had just finished idling his car for maybe as much (or more) than 1/2 hour I got the worst headache I'd ever gotten in my life. That's pretty directly addressing my real concern here. Here's a snippet from my last post:

He responds by saying "you're one of those environmental people?" I go "you know, I had a bad headache after that happened the other day, it was the worst headache I've ever had and it lasted into the night." He goes "we'll talk about it..." and drives off.

 

[Muse]

Report him to the local Police or to CARB ... They have rules against unnecessary idling and he can be fined. He will get the message. Of course, you might need to move to avoid retaliation from him.

Yeah, if at all possible I don't want to get into a retaliation scenario here. I hate those completely. Dealing with him, I can imagine more friendly and accommodating people but I can also imagine far worse people. He suggests we can discuss this although both times he hasn't been willing to do it just then, he's driven off after less than a minute's conversation.

Today, I woke (very late for me) at 8AM. I was semi-awake when I heard the car turn over and start idling. I reach for my timer and start it and get up and go downstairs. I observe through my windows. I notice motion in the car and strain to make out what's happening. It's evidently a dog, a small maybe bull dog. A person comes, it's not him, it's a woman. She attends to something (the dog?), goes back in the building, then comes out and drives away. My timer said 10 minutes. So, I guess he has a woman and a dog with him.

A few moments later I notice eye irritation. I never used to get that but have for the last 2 months or so, especially in the morning. It was pretty bad and I saw an eye doctor and they didn't see disease but recommended eye drops, which I've been using sometimes. I think the exhaust scenario here may be involved, certainly it doesn't help. It could even be the cause.

I opened front and back doors and a window to air out the house after she drove off in the El Camino. I wouldn't have been willing to do that a few days ago, it was way colder, but right now it's in the high 50's, which I can stand. My house doesn't have central heating, it's something I'm used to.

 

[Yuriman]

Yeah, if at all possible I don't want to get into a retaliation scenario here. I hate those completely.

Certainly, after several rounds of establishing other concerns first and trying to find reasons for him to change his behavior which are world-saving and have nothing to do with being a good neighbor.

Don't get me wrong, I'm basically a tree-hugging hippie, I just think you would've found more traction had you approached him first with "Sorry to bother, but the exhaust smell when you're warming your car up is bothering my family. Could you pull it out into the street, or perhaps warm it up for a shorter time in the driveway?" Instead you started with:

I tell him it's not necessary to warm up cars these days, maybe the cars from the 1950s and 1960's, but not now. I tell him all he's doing is polluting the air and wasting gas. He says, "yeah, I know carbon dioxide." I asked him to ask his mechanic and he says he is a mechanic (I had to wonder and during all this he was checking his smartphone, basically acting like he can't be bothered to just talk to me, he's checking his phone at the same time... i.e. dising me). I tell him I'll "check it out" and walk back to my house.

Great way to get adversarial very quickly. Even if it wasn't your intent, it sounds like you're riding in on a high horse and trying to explain to him how little he knows and tell him what to do, when you (I think?) really just wanted to ask him to be a good neighbor.

 

[mindless1]

That's why you never should have said a word to him, just started out by calling the police. Some people don't like being told what to do and will even make an effort to keep doing it just to establish what they perceive to be their right to do so, even if they are in the wrong.

It shouldn't be about what he is convinced or agrees to do. There might also be another angle to this with his vehicle not being old enough (1975 or older) to be exempt from pollution laws, by reporting it.
https://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/complaints/smoke.htm

Then again at this point, I might wait a little to see if he changes his behavior just to try to be a good neighbor. Some people don't realize they're annoying their neighbors until told.

 

[Muse]

Certainly, after several rounds of establishing other concerns first and trying to find reasons for him to change his behavior which are world-saving and have nothing to do with being a good neighbor.

You don't appear to be willing to pay enough attention to this thread to realize that I've not talked to him "after several rounds." I've had exactly 2 conversations with him. The first was ~15 minutes before the OP here, the other was yesterday afternoon about 1PM. Yesterday, (to sum up) I just said that people are saying that a 5 minute warm up should be sufficient and that I got the worst headache of my life after what happened the other day.

I'm not trying to lecture him about what's appropriate for his car, we haven't had that conversation and I don't know all the nuances. The conversation has changed to I'm getting bad headaches here! I'd figured him for someone who'd been advised in the past to warm up his vehicles and that he was unknowing. You guys are right, I shouldn't have started with that. But where do you start? "You're warming up your car is killing me!?"

 

[Muse]

That's why you never should have said a word to him, just started out by calling the police. Some people don't like being told what to do and will even make an effort to keep doing it just to establish what they perceive to be their right to do so, even if they are in the wrong.

It shouldn't be about what he is convinced or agrees to do. There might also be another angle to this with his vehicle not being old enough (1975 or older) to be exempt from pollution laws, by reporting it.
https://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/complaints/smoke.htm

Then again at this point, I might wait a little to see if he changes his behavior just to try to be a good neighbor. Some people don't realize they're annoying their neighbors until told.

Maybe, but I'm not a guy who takes calling the police lightly. I've done it some, but rarely.

 

[Yuriman]

But where do you start? "You're warming up your car is killing me!?"

Basically, yes. Make it personal. I've always had better luck with people when I appeal to their sense of human decency.

For the record, I've read the thread. Just commenting on how I interpret your and his behavior from your words.

 

[deadlyapp]

You're one of those people who just wants to interfere in everyone's life and are always looking for problems aren't you.

If it's bothering you that much, then close your windows, close your doors, seal them up better. You clearly can't rationalize your concern to your neighbor correctly without coming across as a pretentious know-it-all and honestly if you were my neighbor I'd fuck with you even more.

Yes he may have a good, mechanical, legitimate reason for warming up his car, which you can't expect to actually know, but you're acting like you do. At this point, it's too late, you've come across as I mentioned above and if he's any sort of self respecting guy, he'll probably react in the opposite way you want.

Really, your only real option here is if you want to report a nuisance to the police (eg idling car for long period of time unattended) in which case A) the police will laugh at you for wasting their time and do nothing or B) the cops will come and cite the guy, and he'll probably react even more negatively to you.

Sounds to me like you should simply deal with it the 10-15 minutes each day and move on with your life.

 

[mindless1]

Maybe, but I'm not a guy who takes calling the police lightly. I've done it some, but rarely.

I do it on a case by case basis. I wouldn't if someone was doing something where there was a reasonable possibility that they wouldn't be aware that their actions are impacting others.

Other things, like running that car that long, or perpetually blaring a car radio, very loud activities past midnight or before 7AM, letting a dangerous dog roam the streets, etc - I have little sympathy if they don't have as much for everyone else. If you want to live without regard for those around you, that's a reason to live where there aren't neighbors very close by.

 

[mindless1]

Yes he may have a good, mechanical, legitimate reason for warming up his car

There may be a legitimate excuse but that does not make it acceptable. I could make an excuse for robbing a bank.

It is not as though he cannot find another vehicle that does not present this problem, nor does everyone with an '85 El Camino need to do this. It is only due to a state of disrepair or his false assumptions, combined with lack of respect for his neighbors.

 

[bradly1101]

Ugh. People. My heart goes out. A good friend has problems with pollution and her body's rejection, and we live just downwind of the L.A./Long Beach port monstrosity (some of the worst air anywhere is here in Long Beach).

If there are medical symptoms that can be proved there are options; harming another with dangerous stuff is illegal.

I totally understand about retaliation fears; people are insane. And if you move, who knows what's next?

I have no advice other than writing a very kindly letter to him about the effects and your hope for his help. If that works, great, if not, your doctor(s), the city, possibly a lawyer, and/or the police (and there's the BAAQMD) would probably like to see that letter.

If he retaliates after that the police will know who it is (if he hasn't murdered you first).

http://www.baaqmd.gov/

 

[bradly1101]

http://www.baaqmd.gov/online-services/air-pollution-complaints

A place to submit.

 

[herm0016]

Oddly, I remember the 85 El Caminos V8 that I use to work on all had a carburetor (Quadrajet), NOT fuel injection. If he indeed has a 85 El Camino with a carburetor, and perhaps the carb has a choke or other carb problem he might indeed need to warm up the car for 30 minutes.

I think you could get them with the 4.3 v6 Tbi, and depending on year the 305 TBI similar to the Monty Carlo / trans am / camaro. Throttle body injection is an in-between step of full fuel injection and a carb.

 

[Muse]

You're one of those people who just wants to interfere in everyone's life and are always looking for problems aren't you.

No, you obviously don't know the first thing about me and that's a stupid way for you to start a reply here. With friends like you I don't need enemies.

I'm a live and let live person but there are rare circumstances when I feel I have to do something. I should have taken some time to think of how I would best deal with this but I was provoked by a particular incident the other day and acted without thinking enough about it. I'm not at odds with the guy and so am not thinking about bringing in the authorities, something that is very unlike me. I'm hoping for common decency and common sense to prevail. Maybe he has a bad thermostat. I could actually buy him another, I would be willing to do that if I solves the problem!

 

[mindless1]

I think you could get them with the 4.3 v6 Tbi, and depending on year the 305 TBI similar to the Monty Carlo / trans am / camaro. Throttle body injection is an in-between step of full fuel injection and a carb.

Yes according to wikipedia '85 was the switch to the 4.3L TBI. I once had a Blazer with that engine. It had no need to warm up longer than anything else.

 

[Ackmed]

It's not harmless. His car is literally less than 15 feet from my house and upwind. His exhaust wafts over my property and gets in the house. I can't stay outside when this is happening and even inside it's very unhealthy.

He isn't doing this to get toasty in his car. It's been at least in the middle 50s during the days, often into the 60s.

Yesterday I was leaving the house on my bicycle and spotted him pulling out of his driveway. I heralded him, asking his name. He responds by asking mine. I tell him and he tells me his. He then asks if I got an answer (as I said in the OP, I left off the conversation I had with him just before I made that OP by saying "I'll look into it."). I say I found out that people were saying that a 5 minute warm up should be sufficient in this environment. He responds by saying "you're an environmental person?" I go "you know, I had a bad headache after that happened the other day, it was the worst headache I've ever had and it lasted into the night." He goes "we'll talk about it..." and drives off.

I really am worried about this guy. He's not coming off as reasonable and friendly or accommodating. I honestly think what he's doing may be seriously affecting my health. It's certainly a major inconvenience when I have to go indoors unexpectedly.

By your own admission, you don't have a house, you have an apartment. Very unhealthy? Please. Worst headache ever? Wow, not sure what to even say about this. You're really worried about this guy because he is unfriendly, according to you? Seriously worried about your health? I'm at a lose for words with this comment. No offense, you seem very dainty. I am so so glad I no longer live in CA, you seem like the typical CA person to person to me. Over exaggerating and complaining about every day life. You claim he may not know he has a V8, you asking makes you very unsure. If he has a carb, it may need warming up. 30 minutes every day seems pretty excessive though. If that is actually the case. Word of advice, dont go acting like your health is in serious trouble. Just claim its loud.

Sorry to say, you live in apartments, this is part of what you get. Perhaps you have a noise ordnance, we do around here. But after 7am its pretty much free game until 11pm.

warming up a car is only useful if you want to raise the coolant temperature to warm the cabin air.

Not always accurate. Older cars, especially those with carbs can benefit from warming up. I have a 1968 Mustang that is pretty heavily modified. 302 at .30 over, big cam, 4.11 gears, 3500 rev limiter, MSD ignition, alum air intake, double pumper 750 carb, also have X-pipes with a glasspack muffler. I installed a manual choke, but I pretty much leave it wide open. I HAVE to let it warm up, or else it WILL die. Then I will just have to restart it. It is fine once going, but takes a bit to warm up. If not warm, I need to pump the gas after starting a little to get it to idle, then it is good. I rarely drive it to work, because I leave about 430am. I need a few mins for it to warm up and be able to drive, and I try not to wake up the neighborhood. I have other vehicles I can drive.

My car;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-xlPcCWsZE

This is before X-pipes and glasspacks. Cold start she is loud, because I have to rev it a bit and its just a loud car. Cabin air has nothing to do with my need to warm up the car before I can drive it.

Even with newer cars, some need to warm up before full capabilities are available. I have a Maserati that definitely needs to warm up a few mins. Its very loud, then idles down and lets me know its ready. Some have a limiter on them until warm.

 

[mindless1]

^ So many things wrong with your post.

1. Don't post your license plate online.

2. While it was a "little" loud idling, not much, it seemed in good running order, not a source of exhaust fumes from burning oil.

3. No, apartment dwellers do not give up the right to a reasonable level of quiet and air quality.

4. If you live close to someone, that is not Muse who made a mistake, it is the nearby neighbor who chose to live so nearby without regard for the noise or pollution. You are completely backwards on that.

5. If you choose to configure a vehicle in such a way, or through disrepair that it arguably "needs" to warm up for a long time, that's a bullschitt excuse. No, it does not need to do that, you CHOSE that it does that. Don't be an idiot.

6. When you get older you will worry more about your health too, and/or when someone is doing to you what seems to be only what someone else is doing to Muse. It is very easy to sweep aside someone else's rights when they don't impact you.

7. If you didn't own a muscle car and your neighbor put blue smoke fumes through your window for a half hour every day, if you told me that's fine you are just lying.

If someone wants to live without regard for their neighbors, living away from any is the only rational solution. Do it, be free, it really is one of the great things about America that we can have space to do as we wish.

 

[LTC8K6]

All cars are not equal. You don't know if this guy has a bad thermostat and it takes 30 minutes to warm up his car or perhaps other problem. An 85 El Camino could have many problems. Oddly, I remember the 85 El Caminos V8 that I use to work on all had a carburetor (Quadrajet), NOT fuel injection. If he indeed has a 85 El Camino with a carburetor, and perhaps the carb has a choke or other carb problem he might indeed need to warm up the car for 30 minutes. I'm sure the OP was out there with a stop watch timing him.

Well, if it takes your carbed engine 20 or 30 minutes to drop out of fast idle, there's something wrong, or you live in Siberia and it's winter.

 

[Meghan54]

^ So many things wrong with your post.

1. Don't post your license plate online.

Always wondered why this advice? It's not like no one can copy, photo, etc. your license plate on your vehicle, unless you drive around with it obscured all the time. Otherwise, it's pretty much out there for anyone to observe/copy/photo/whatever.

 

[mindless1]

Always wondered why this advice? It's not like no one can copy, photo, etc. your license plate on your vehicle, unless you drive around with it obscured all the time. Otherwise, it's pretty much out there for anyone to observe/copy/photo/whatever.

Because this exposes the poster to every nutjob out there. When your plate is seen in public, unless you are doing something wrong you are just another car among millions, not a bright spot on someone's radar. However, yes in real life, giving strangers too much information about yourself could also lead to problems.

When you are online posting about yourself or vehicle, anything really, you give the nutjobs something to hate on, or in the case of someone vulnerable like a young girl, present a victim target with personally identifiable info.

It's one thing for someone who has an online grudge to just troll you but another thing entirely if they know who you are and where you live, but to you they're still anonymous. That is an unfair fight, or danger, however you want to look at it.

It could be worse, if it's even easier for someone to find you in real life. For example not too long ago I saw someone I knew, a very attractive young woman on facebook (and flaunting it, bikini pics and all) just turned 21 and posted her driver's license and that she was going to go out and get plastered that night.

You have not seen cases yourself where someone posted a little too much identifiable info and the internet spilled over into their real life? I've seen several, with the troll posting family pics, even following family members of a poster and where their sister worked. Never underestimate how much free time a troll has.

 

[HarryLui]

I see no reason to warm up a fuel injected car.
Start it, drive it easy until the car is up to operational temperature before hammering it.


Warm up is so pre 1980.