Warming up a car

[Muse]

My neighbor's been warming up his 1985 Chevy El Camino open-back car in his driveway for sometimes up to 1/2 hour. That driveway is right next to mine. He does this daily. It pollutes the outdoors (I have to go inside to avoid the smell of exhaust from the vehicle's dual exhaust pipes) and is noise polluting. He's in the adjacent apartment building. This is Berkeley, CA.

I just 15 minutes ago hung out until he returned to the car (15 minutes or so) and asked him why he's doing that. He said he likes to warm up his car. I've had the impression that it's wasteful and not necessary to warm up cars these days (Car Talk). I asked him if it has a carburetor or is fuel injected, and he said fuel injected (I wonder if he even knows). I ask him if it's a V8 and he says yes. I tell him it's not necessary to warm up cars these days, maybe the cars from the 1950s and 1960's, but not now. I tell him all he's doing is polluting the air and wasting gas. He says, "yeah, I know carbon monoxide." I asked him to ask his mechanic and he says he is a mechanic (I had to wonder and during all this he was checking his smartphone, basically acting like he can't be bothered to just talk to me, he's checking his phone at the same time... i.e. dising me). I tell him I'll "check it out" and walk back to my house.

So, am I right here? If so, I'm going to have to have another talk with him if this continues.

 

[mizzou]

You should have directly asked him to not run it for 30 minutes in the driveway because the odor seeps into your apartment.

Instead you got into a pointless argument over the merits of warming up a car.

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edit: warming up a car is only useful if you want to raise the coolant temperature to warm the cabin air. There are some issues though...for instance driving your car a really short fistamce before your car can heat up routinely can be hard on your battery and cause moisture issues....but its nothing drastic.

 

[Muse]

There's no good reason

You should have directly asked him to not run it for 30 minutes in the driveway because the odor seeps into your apartment.

Instead you got into a pointless argument over the merits of warming up a car.

-------

edit: warming up a car is only useful if you want to raise the coolant temperature to warm the cabin air. There are some issues though...for instance driving your car a really short fistamce before your car can heat up routinely can be hard on your battery and cause moisture issues....but its nothing drastic.

You're right. But I wanted to give him a reason to not want to do what he's doing besides just pleasing me since he does it for himself and obviously thinks it's a good idea. From what I've heard, it's not a good idea unless you want your car interior warm. The temperature out there today when this happened was about 58F. There's no good reason he had to warm up the car for 20+ minutes for him to take a drive. He looks to be 30 YO or less, he's not dottery or anything.

If he keeps doing this I think I'll talk to him, explain that I did some research and that the only good reason for him to do it is to heat up the interior of the car and explain that the smell makes me feel sick and ask him not to do it for that reason. It's true, it makes me feel ill. Quite a few times I've been working outside and duck into the house to escape the fumes from his warming up car.

 

[pcgeek11]

It is obvious that he doesn't care what you think from his attitude when you were talking to him....

Good luck with your second attempt.

 

[snoopy7548]

I think in some places it's illegal to leave your car running unattended, even in your driveway. Just saying...

 

[boomerang]

I think in some places it's illegal to leave your car running unattended, even in your driveway. Just saying...

In Berkeley it's probably close to illegal to even own a car that runs on fossil fuels.

 

[pauldun170]

We used to have a 1972 Chevy Malibu V8 in the family. Finally sent it off to the junk heap in the sky last year.
Winter warm up (real winter...not fake California winter) consisted of
Start the car.
Fast idle for about 15-30 seconds.
Goose the throttle to see if idle reduces
If Idle goes to normal or close to normal, drive away.

That's held true for every carb'd car I've ever owned.
Only cars I'd worry about warm up are old Italian cars .

 

[Rifter]

Warming up is certainly necessary for some vehicles. I had a 84 Chev 3/4 ton that would run like absolute crap(like floor it and would take 25-30 seconds to get up to 30mph) unless it was fully warm, took 5 min to warm up in summer and 15-20 in the winter. I warmed it up in my underground parking in my apartment building every single day, with straight pipes back from the headers, no cats no mufflers so the smell was strong as well. Sounded like someone was firing a machine gun in the underground parking while i was warming it up i had the high idle set to about 2200rpm, and amazingly not once in the 3 years i had it did anyone ever say anything to me about it.

Of course it wasnt stock, had aftermarket cams, headers, heads, bigger carb. maybe would have run better cold if was stock but who runs a stock 350 lol.

 

[mindless1]

My neighbor's been warming up his 1985 Chevy El Camino open-back car in his driveway for sometimes up to 1/2 hour. That driveway is right next to mine. He does this daily. It pollutes the outdoors (I have to go inside to avoid the smell of exhaust from the vehicle's dual exhaust pipes) and is noise polluting. He's in the adjacent apartment building. This is Berkeley, CA.

Cali has to have some kind of law about leaving a running vehicle unattended due to pollution, if not auto theft too. You shouldn't have said anything to him, so when you call the police he doesn't as strongly suspect it was you.

If you don't want to be on his bad side then don't stuff styrofoam peanuts in his tank.

I just 15 minutes ago hung out until he returned to the car (15 minutes or so) and asked him why he's doing that. He said he likes to warm up his car. I've had the impression that it's wasteful and not necessary to warm up cars these days (Car Talk).

There are lots of ignorant people who claim a newer car needs no warm up. They're half right. There's not much "warm" up needed for newer engines but a little helps, as does just a dozen seconds to get the oil circulating, longer if it's cold out, longer if it's not synthetic oil or heavier than 5W20. Some people just drive slow, little more than idling to let it warm up that way before putting the engine under much load.

I asked him if it has a carburetor or is fuel injected, and he said fuel injected (I wonder if he even knows). I ask him if it's a V8 and he says yes.

This doesn't really matter. It's probably carb'd but that would have to do with the carb choking properly. The remaining mechanical aspects from that GM era were the same, but yes a carb would use more fuel and lack of pollution controls, pollute more, as would an aged engine burning oil which is likely the biggest pollutant.

I tell him it's not necessary to warm up cars these days, maybe the cars from the 1950s and 1960's, but not now. I tell him all he's doing is polluting the air and wasting gas. He says, "yeah, I know carbon dioxide." I asked him to ask his mechanic and he says he is a mechanic (I had to wonder and during all this he was checking his smartphone, basically acting like he can't be bothered to just talk to me, he's checking his phone at the same time... i.e. dising me). I tell him I'll "check it out" and walk back to my house.

So, am I right here? If so, I'm going to have to have another talk with him if this continues.

Cars that old do run better after warmed up, but a half hour is absurd. 5 minutes is enough (except in very cold weather) unless it has an unrelated problem like a flaky alternator or battery so it takes that long idling to get the battery voltage up enough to make strong ignition spark. A minute is enough for a newer vehicle, again unless it's very cold, or the owner could use a lighter weight oil over the winter season to compensate. Someone with an old El Camino wouldn't want do that because the thinner oil would leak out, burn up, and make the engine too noisy and vibrate itself to death faster.

 

[Raizinman]

Car for many many years are designed to be warmed up. The manufacturer has designed remote starts for car for many years specifically to warm up the engine in the winter or to coold down the car in the summer. My Acura has this built in where my remote will start the car and then turn on either the heater or A/C depending on the temperature. In most areas, going out to warm up your car while leaving your keys in the ignition is against the law. Remote starting your car is not illegal; again it is designed into the car by the manufacturer. Personally, I like getting into a warm or cool car (depending on climate). In todays world, confronting someone about their stance on air pollution can get you shot. Best to keep your opinion to yourself. BTW - Car Talk is often wrong on their advice. At the GM Training center they use to keep a bulletin board of all the wrong advice they would give. They finally had to stop when the bulletin board was full.

 

[Alpha One Seven]

Let word of it leak out to east la that there is a running car at that address every morning that is unattended for 30 minutes and the problem will go away.

 

[EXCellR8]

Does this guy have a mullet by any chance?

Here in the northeast where winter actually happens, I let my FI cars warm up for at least 10 minutes if it's below freezing; a bit longer if necessary or the temp is zero or below. Unless you're stomping the gas right after you start the car you can probably get away without warming it up, but half hour is definitely a waste of gas.

 

[bruceb]

For the weather in California, definitely not needed. And certainly not for 30 minutes. 5 minutes at most and I would only do that to get the AC cooling the car down a bit on very hot days. Now in the snowbelt (MA,CT,ME,VT, etc) then yes, you would want to warm it up about 10 minutes in very cold temps to get the oil moving well, the heater / defroster going so you are comfortable and the windows stay clear.

 

[Raizinman]

All cars are not equal. You don't know if this guy has a bad thermostat and it takes 30 minutes to warm up his car or perhaps other problem. An 85 El Camino could have many problems. Oddly, I remember the 85 El Caminos V8 that I use to work on all had a carburetor (Quadrajet), NOT fuel injection. If he indeed has a 85 El Camino with a carburetor, and perhaps the carb has a choke or other carb problem he might indeed need to warm up the car for 30 minutes. I'm sure the OP was out there with a stop watch timing him.

 

[Muse]

I'm sure the OP was out there with a stop watch timing him.

Yeah, I tossed that off, the 30 minute number. But I'm pretty sure it was over 15 minutes. But that was after I noticed it. He could have had it idling much longer (before I noticed it).

He didn't park there today and I didn't see his car parked on the street. There was no car there. Got back at 6PM and another car was parked there. It's a driveway, so only one car can park there, it's an apartment building so there's probably 10 cars for people living there, but they do have a parking space with limited accommodations, i.e. a few cars.

Yesterday evening after this happened and after I posted (which was right after my encounter with the guy), I had a headache off and on, the worst headache of my life, I swear. I almost never get headaches and they are never severe, but this had to be the worst ever (still not awful). I have to wonder if it wasn't from that exhaust and that it did indeed seep into my house, like a poster said here. If the problem continues I'll tell the guy that his exhaust is making me sick. And yeah, I'll be timing his car warmups although I never know when he starts the car, just notice that it's running. Over the summer I spent endless hours outside working on completely removing and replacing a wall of my garage. I occasionally had to go back in the house because I couldn't stand the smell when he had his car running.

 

[bruceb]

I agree, he could have cooling system issues. But those would show more in a cold climate. Worst case, his thermostat is stuck open. On a car that old, it would not hurt and not be too expensive to flush the radiator and engine block, replace both radiator hoses ,pressure cap and and thermostat and refilll with 50/50 antifreeze. All of that should only take a couple of hours at most and cost about $45 or so in materials.

 

[Yuriman]

I'm no mechanic, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

In my 18 year old Honda, it doesn't make a bit of difference if I wait 15 seconds or 15 minutes to drive away. If it's 20 below zero, I'm still going to get cold air from the vents, and it will run exactly the same. The engine only really starts to get warm once it's loaded and moving, so by leaving it idle, I essentially have a "cold" engine running much longer.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

We used to have a 1972 Chevy Malibu V8 in the family. Finally sent it off to the junk heap in the sky last year.

Nooooooooo....

 

[paperfist]

Who warms a car up in CA!?!?!??

I'd be careful with the guy, before you know it he'll put on some headers, remove the muffler and bolt on a super charger and then you'll get a real headache.

 

[LTC8K6]

It just takes too long to warm up when it's just idling. I just make sure nothing seems wrong, and drive off. In the winter, I let it idle while I am making sure it's clear of snow/ice, but that's all. That's maybe 5 minutes. The warm up is faster if you drive it.

 

[Yuriman]

It just takes too long to warm up when it's just idling. I just make sure nothing seems wrong, and drive off. In the winter, I let it idle while I am making sure it's clear of snow/ice, but that's all. That's maybe 5 minutes. The warm up is faster if you drive it.

Idling my little 1.0L, it will literally never get warm if you have the heat on, and if the car is fully warmed up and you blast the heat at idle, the engine will eventually get cold again. Leaving it idle even on a fair weather day, you can come back in half an hour and not see the gauge move. So, as I see it, it isn't better to run the engine cold for 30 minutes, but rather to drive it immediately so it gets warm.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Engine Block heater. My car is at temp and producing heat 3 blocks out of the driveway.

 

[pauldun170]

Nooooooooo....

It was a 4 door.
After 45 years as a semi-daily driver, original engine and transmission and all, rust got the better of it.

Kinda sucked driving it but brakes were surprisingly good for the car of that era.

 

[Tormac]

It seems to me like a harmless thing to have the neighbor warm up is car, but then maybe you are a lot closer to your neighbors than I am.

If he is his own mechanic is is likely that the car has a thermostat issue that he can't be bothered to fix, or is finicky in someway that that may make an extensive warm up useful. Or maybe he just wants the whole car to be toasty warm when he gets in it. (I don't know how cold it is where you are at, but I know some people who hate driving cold cars and let their car warm up unnecessarily because of this).

If he is not violating any local law, I think you should let this one go. It sounds like you are spending more time concerned about his car warming up than he is.

 

[LTC8K6]

It seems to me like a harmless thing to have the neighbor warm up is car, but then maybe you are a lot closer to your neighbors than I am.

If he is his own mechanic is is likely that the car has a thermostat issue that he can't be bothered to fix, or is finicky in someway that that may make an extensive warm up useful. Or maybe he just wants the whole car to be toasty warm when he gets in it. (I don't know how cold it is where you are at, but I know some people who hate driving cold cars and let their car warm up unnecessarily because of this).

If he is not violating any local law, I think you should let this one go. It sounds like you are spending more time concerned about his car warming up than he is.

Letting the engine run in that rich fuel mode for so long doesn't seem like a good idea, though. Better to spend $5 and a little time and put a working thermostat in it.