(Warm) CLIÉ? handheld pre-order

[loup garou]

Duc, I second your opinions, very well put. Except for one thing: there is a huge surge lately in the number of free and pay apps for the PocketPC. Nowhere near what is available for Palm, but I have yet to not be able to find an app for something I'd want to do on my PocketPC. The lack of a unifying hardware spec bugs me (ARM vs MIPS vs SH3), but if a really good app comes out, the developers usually make it cross-platform.

I'm trying my hardest not to be a zealot!

 

[ThaiBruin]

<<




Plus how can they truly call it a &quot;Pocket&quot; PC when it does not fit in your pocket. It is bad enough carryin a wallet let alone a &quot;Pocket PC&quot;.

On the positive side both have their place, but a PocketPC will never seep into the PDA market as far as the PalmOS has.

Duc >>



iPaq fits fine in my pocket with the silver slider on, and if one looks around, you can find an Aero 1550 on eGay (compaq for some reason or other has decided to no longer produce this little wonder). This pocket PC is just .5&quot; thin and slightly longer than a Palm V. There is also the Jornada PocketPC's that are only .6&quot; thick, now surely, that will fit in your pocket right? You must wear some fairly skin tight jeans there Duc.

And I agree, PocketPC might not ever gain the market share that Palm has simply because out of the box, it requires a higher learning curve, whereas Palm is as everyone and their Palm-loving mothers will agree, is simple to use right out of the box. But for those who are willing to actually use a PocketPC and spend about a week learning it, again, you just can't go back. I was given a Palm VIIx at work to test my company's product on, and I liked it's simplicity, but I kept going back to the iPaq time and time again.

 

[Passions]

Look ma! No more spinach coloured screen!!!

 

[Rostand]

<< For those of you who want to make an informed decision, here is a pretty good comparison between a PocketPC and PalmOS PDA.

http://www.microsoft.com/MOBILE/enterprise/papers/why.asp >>



:Q

Wow who could have EVER thought that one would find a white paper declaring a microsoft product the best thing out there on a microsoft website!

I am shocked there is gambling going on in this establishment.

 

[halik]

Palm
Almost completely Open OS and coding (there is about any app you could dream of out there)
Not really, they dont give out any sources, all you get is scaled-down codewarrior

Open hardware standards (If you wanted to produce a clone they will lease the HW designs out)How do you think compaq, hp or casio is making pocketpcs?
Huge development community out there, so don't say there is no support.
Who ported quake on pocket pc, huh? ...thats what i thoght...

Pocket PCs
Closed OS and code???? yeah right.
Hardware varies from producer to producer.
The only hardware diff is 3 sets of cpus - mips sh3 and arm
Huge corporation driving the system developement, some developement community but issues with interop due to HW
Actually every manufacturer releases their own patches, i had aero 2100 and i got it upgraded to 16mil colors (btw pocketpcs have 1million times more colors...)
Gets closer to being what a laptop already does
I tried fitting my laptop in my backpocket,but i cant say its a pleasant view...

 

[fearstryker]

Who cares if it is on a Microsoft page? The charts show a side-by-side comparison of features for a PocketPC and a Palm.

werk, with the imminent release of the Intel x-scale CPU, the PocketPC market has hopes of becoming a unified architecture.

blue visor, i personally do not live in europe, so i cannot talk about trends there. however, the Handheld PCs like the Jornada 720 &quot;school&quot; the Psion.

duc, you're making an unwarranted prediction:


<< On the positive side both have their place, but a PocketPC will never seep into the PDA market as far as the PalmOS has. >>



Microsoft is on the rampage with the new PocketPC, and the next CE version bundled with the Intel X-Scale CPUs is bound to cause havoc on Palm sales. (X-scale cpus will run at double the speed and consume 50-75% less power than the StrongARM)

The future of PDAs is that they will become a necessity in everyday life, and the PocketPC is poised to have the capability to take us there. Whereas the Palm will remain an organizer?

 

[loup garou]

<< werk, with the imminent release of the Intel x-scale CPU, the PocketPC market has hopes of becoming a unified architecture. >>



Unfortunately, we will lose all of the older software from the CE 2.1 days that was compiled for MIPS, and there is a bunch. I don't use any of these apps, but I know lots of people who do. I'm ready for a 400Mhz PocketPC though (as long as it's kept at their current price point of 300-600 dollars)!

I've also heard rumors on the Brighthand forums that an ultralow power conumption 3D chip is being developed. Whoa!

 

[fearstryker]

YES! When that roles around laptops will almost become absolete

 

[aks93]

Wow this thing makes me drool....Someone find a good deal on this baby so I can take it home...

 

[GoldenTiger]

I can slip my Clie in my pocket in its case or without case but with screen protector... I like having it be a mini-computer that I can use with a small wireless modem or just Avantgo and play games on, but have it be very small and convenient to just whip out and be an instant on-off device, not a full-fledged computer that is uncomfy in your pocket (like a bunch of coins) that is also a bit large..

 

[chiggachu]

wow i never knew hardware forums, let alone a HOT DEALS forum can get so heated. i just got trashed by someone (thaiBruin) who takes personal offense to my preference to the palm OS. anyway...in response to that...i'd rather carry around a Palm, my MD player, and go to easyeverything for e-mail than spend the enormous amounts of cash that the ipaq demands...just my opinion. i'd rather have a couple of things that do a task well than one single item that doesn't do it all, regardless of what you say, and costs a crapload after you add the little backpack things and the CF cards and modem thingies. hey if i had the cash i'd buy one...and thanks for insulting my family...that's really neccessary.

 

[douggie]

Does anyone know that the screen only displays 256 colours for the Clie?

The m505 displays 65500+ colours!

 

[ThaiBruin]

<< wow i never knew hardware forums, let alone a HOT DEALS forum can get so heated. i just got trashed by someone (thaiBruin) who takes personal offense to my preference to the palm OS. anyway...in response to that...i'd rather carry around a Palm, my MD player, and go to easyeverything for e-mail than spend the enormous amounts of cash that the ipaq demands...just my opinion. i'd rather have a couple of things that do a task well than one single item that doesn't do it all, regardless of what you say, and costs a crapload after you add the little backpack things and the CF cards and modem thingies. hey if i had the cash i'd buy one...and thanks for insulting my family...that's really neccessary. >>



Read my post again, I said you dad must have gotten a &quot;bunk&quot; ipaq, in that he must have received a defective iPaq. I don't see where the insult to your family comes from. And again, if you read my post with not so hot a head, you'd see that I'm saying, IF you were willing to spend $500 on a PDA, take a good hard look at PocketPCs, if you want a PDA that simply does the functions of a daily planner, then by all means get a Palm M100, you get your money's worth for $129. But to pay $500 for a Palm OS device is just a bit ridiculous. What does that extra $369 buy you? A device that's just as big as your M100 if not bigger, with the same OS, practically the same processor, and tacked on MP3 playing and rather nonfunctional Memory Stick port (at the moment it can only be used for storage, as there are no peripherals available, nor does there seem to be any on the horizon). Now tell me, when it comes to features and hardware, how does the PocketPC lose to a Sony Clie or even a Palm M50x? And jeez, loads of little backpack things?? it's one Sleeve you need that has a compact flash slot! each device you want to add is via a compact flash card, it's no different than Handsprings Springboard slot idea, and CF cards are far smaller! So please, I'm not being hotheaded, I'm stating facts as I see them, and I'm even AGREEING with you about your M100.

 

[fearstryker]

ThaiBruin,

The &quot;insult&quot; came from me. It was not intended to single out chiggachu's father. My simple point was that technology has gotten to the point where almost every problem can be associated to errors on the humans part.

I personally have never met anyone who has never had an ESO error...
but I do apologize if I made it sound as if chiggachu's father is the only with these &quot;problems&quot;.

As for the cost of PocketPCs, you could've picked up a Casio E125 for about $350 after rebate.

Douggie,

Although the Palm 505 has 65k colors, it comes at a huge cost. The higher resolution drains batteries much faster. The new clie can run 2 weeks without a recharge, whereas the 505 I believe is at 1? (This assumes the audio playback of the Sony is not used)

 

[odz]

I have a Casio EM500 and absolutely love it.
I bought it thinking it would just be another 'toy', but I have definitely gotten my money's worth,(and I don't even play games ).
Oh yeah, you can get an EM500 for about $350.

 

[treasurehunter]

If you're in the medical field, a PocketPC is useless compared to a Palm device. Everyone carries around Palms beaming things to people left and right, and there are soooooo many more medical apps for the Palm than PocketPC. Not that this means anything for most people but just a thought in case any future doctors are reading. . . .

I can't help but get a feeling of deja vu when reading the arguments in this thread. I don't know how many of you were into PDAs enough to remember the Apple Newton, but it sparked a similar debate (full-featured, laptop-replacing, big, expensive PDA vs. small, efficient, cheap Palm). The Newton lost. . . badly. . . . I wonder if the market has changed enough now to give the PocketPC a better chance (I owned a Newton 2100 for a short time and personally find no appeal in the PocketPC since I don't want something to act like a laptop--heck, I'd be so worried about forgetting it somewhere and having to buy an expensive new one that I'd never carry it around ). . . .

 

[treasurehunter]

And just for those wondering about current marketshare numbers. This is the most recent report I could find on the PDA market (from a 4/20 Industry Standard article):

&quot;According to NPD Intelect, a Port Washington, N.Y.-based research firm, handhelds running on the Palm operating system accounted for 86.6 percent of U.S. unit sales in February.&quot;

And for those who say market share should be irrelevant and isn't a fair point to make, let me say that after years of being a Mac user and constantly hearing the &quot;market share is key&quot; argument, I'm not going to let Microsoft OS users claim it's only important when they feel it is. . . .

(shouldn't this thread move to Off Topic by now?)

 

[jsm]

We should differentiate a couple things here.

How much is Palm? How much is licensees?

Also, how much is corporate and how much is home users?

Palm has a hard sell in a lot of corporate markets, especially since they are really trying to push the Palm 7x which gets it's arse handed to it by the RIM Blackberry in the corporate market.

Furthermore, there are lots of companies who are moving to the PocketPC because big name companies who sell to enterprise customers are pushing them (HP and Compaq for example). Because of the near infinite amount of expansion for the iPaq, it is becoming a hot item.

At Wells Fargo, there is currently a plan to use them for all VPs and high level managers so they can move around their buildings access all their Outlook data. This is just a test phase - if it goes well, it is going to be standard for all of their IT and management to have an iPaq.

Apparently, there are even more companies doing this.

The way it looks:

- Palm handhelds will be the home user market. (Except for Symbol branded Palms)
- PocketPC will move itself into the corporate market.

Personally, I would rather have the corporate market. There is more movement there and chance for integration into so many other things - it only adds to your marketability as a solution.

One more thing - CNet has a story on how Palm sales are down. The story has some lies - the m500 has not even GMed yet due to some issues. And the m505 has not even shipped out a PVT version from what I know.

 

[fearstryker]

Treasurehunter:


<< If you're in the medical field, a PocketPC is useless compared to a Palm device. Everyone carries around Palms beaming things to people left and right, and there are soooooo many more medical apps for the Palm than PocketPC. Not that this means anything for most people but just a thought in case any future doctors are reading. . . . >>



Not anymore, there's a program called &quot;Peacemaker Pro&quot;, it can beam almost all types of information to a Palm OS or Psion based PDA.

 

[treasurehunter]

>Not anymore, there's a program called &quot;Peacemaker Pro&quot;, it can beam almost all types of information to a Palm OS or Psion based PDA.

Yes, but it isn't much use to get beamed apps you can't run. The number of Palm OS med apps is much much higher, so if someone beams you a Palm OS med app, what are you going to do with it? True, though, databases (assuming the app that reads them is cross-platform) are becoming somewhat easier to transfer, although not as easy as Palm-2-Palm obviously. . . .

BTW, that Palm Cnet article is essentially reporting on how Palm-brand device sales are down b/c non-Palm Palm OS devices (Handspring, Sony, etc.) were chewing into marketshare, not b/c of PocketPC (check out any of the other more detailed articles at other sites about Palm's eroding marketshare). . . .

 

[fearstryker]

I'm trying to find the zdnet article that quoted a study showing that PocketPCs will have 38% market share by 2002/3... which would ultimately lead to more programs being developed on the platform.

In the meantime, Palm does have the overwhelming support of software developers.