Warlock, Hunter or Mage for PVP in WoW???

[Acanthus]

You are one of the worst arena classes in the game, ckent.

Theres an alternative to all 3 shaman specs for their role they would fill that another class can outdo significantly.

See: Priest for the same issues

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Frost mage, holy paladin, MS war.

Look at the top classes in all of the top battlegroups. It is kind of sad how broken the balance is.

I've said why I think this is the case, and I stand by that.

Originally posted by: Genx87
Arena's take away the single biggest advantage of rogues, surprise. You run into an arena and people are expecting you, and rogues are paper tigers. The longer the fight, the less likely they are going to win.

In 5v5 rogues CC isnt worth that much. A warrior delivers serious damage with better longevity.

Warriors with heals are great, yes. So sap, then blind and then stunlock his healer.

Heh sounds easier than done. Trinket out of sap. Even if a warrior didnt have their trinket up or have a way out of sap. I really doubt I'd have enough burst dps to kill a paladin in the time it takes for the sap to wear off. Then it is all down hill from there. Warriors are simply amazing in pvp. I am consistently nailed for 1200-2400 while the best Ill do on most of my attacks are in the 600-1000 range if that. Almost makes me want to roll a warrior.

Trinket out of sap and the trinket's down for 2 minutes while you're stunlocked and/or blinded. Trinket out of one stun and it's just on to the next. Stuns need to be nerfed hardcore. Not just rogue stuns either.

You have to generate CP to stun people unless it is a cheapshot. And even then you are looking at 6 seconds tops if diminishing returns havent kicked in. And dont forget warriors have a nice talent that when stunned generates 20 rage and 10% of their health over the next 10 seconds. A warrior with over 10K HP means my mutilate was just negated by that ability

Warriors also have deathwish which makes them immune to fear. Resilience is really knocking rogues down the food chain as true pvp players will be affect less and less by crits, which is rogues burst damage.

 

[LeetViet]

Top 2v2's are usually warlock+healer (typically priest) followed by druid+rogue, warrior+paladin, warlock+shadow priest.

 

[QuantumPion]

Originally posted by: LeetViet
followed by druid+rogue

lol wut? druids are terrible in arenas and rogues aren't that great either. The best arena teams are:
2v2: warlock+shadow priest or warrior+paladin
3v3: warrior+paladin+(shadow priest/mage/warlock)
5v5: warrior+paladin+3x(shadow priest/mage/warlock)

 

[Aikouka]

I think peoples been watching too much World of Roguecraft .

 

[Zbox]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Zbox
ckent, it's obvious you've never played a rogue in competitive arena. it sounds like your gear is terrible if a rogue in greens is stunlocking you to death. sorry, but that's just not possible anymore (especially after the last trinket change). rogues are among the weakest class across 2v2/3v3/5v5 with mediocre to average numbers for the top teams of 2v2 and 3v3. they are absolutely craptastic in 5v5.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that the two most grossly overpowered 1v1 / bg's classes do terribly in arenas? It's because chainfearing / stunlocking people to death without giving them the opportunity to fight back is horrible pvp practice. Just as Garry Kasparov didn't become a chessmaster by beating schoolchildren at chess, rogues and warlocks haven't done well in arenas because pvp prior to arenas was easy mode for them. If anything, they need to be nerfed. This would make PvP fair for the other 7 classes and force them to learn how to play their characters for real. But instead they're being buffed. It's almost comical; since buffs won't address the reason they're doing poorly in arenas, they'll do just as poorly and whine even more on the forums.

I played a 60 rogue as my main for a while, btw. I'm well aware of the class' abilities, strengths and weaknesses. I think it was pretty well balanced at 60. But in TBC it was buffed in every way conceivable and has become disgustingly overpowered.

And here's my armory, it's my "main" in that it's my only 70, but I'm not sure you call a class that makes you want to throw up when you PvP your main. Nor am I sure whether you call it a main when you only log in for 20 minutes a day to do daily quests.

Playing a rogue at 60 means you know jack squat about them at 70; it's a completely different game. And for the record, rogues are far weaker in TBC than they were pre expansion. This wasn't the case as everyone was leveling up, but as gear gets better and better, rogues will continue to get worse. Their abilities scale nowhere near as well as most other classes. Resilience has already hit them harder than any other class. So you played a rogue at 60? I'm sure you would be glad to know that eviscerate scales so well that it does almost identical damage at 70 as it did at 60. My crit rate has also dropped about 13% in going from 60 -> 70. Add in resilience in the matches I'm playing (380+ resilience) and we're talking about a 25% reduction to my crit rate in 10 levels. You think rogues should be nerfed even more and their players should learn to play? lol.

And as another poster stated, you're completely wrong about the dominant 1v1 class not being viable in arena. Warlocks utterly destroy 2v2/3v3, and their popularity in 5v5 is going through the roof. The upcoming dot/resilience change will do very little/nothing to alter that. As for stunlocking in high end arena, it doesn't even exist (unless you want to start talking about retardedly OP'd mace spec warriors with their t3 blacksmith weapon).

Your armory reflects that your gear is lacking. 150 resilience isn't much. Being elemental makes you a prime target for the rogue. You'd be far better suited to go resto which is an incredibly strong counter to rogues. I know it sucks to be pigeonholed into some given spec, but you should stay away from elemental until you have the gear for it unless you just don't mind getting focus fired (and it sounds like you really do).

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Zbox

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: Zbox
ckent, it's obvious you've never played a rogue in competitive arena. it sounds like your gear is terrible if a rogue in greens is stunlocking you to death. sorry, but that's just not possible anymore (especially after the last trinket change). rogues are among the weakest class across 2v2/3v3/5v5 with mediocre to average numbers for the top teams of 2v2 and 3v3. they are absolutely craptastic in 5v5.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that the two most grossly overpowered 1v1 / bg's classes do terribly in arenas? It's because chainfearing / stunlocking people to death without giving them the opportunity to fight back is horrible pvp practice. Just as Garry Kasparov didn't become a chessmaster by beating schoolchildren at chess, rogues and warlocks haven't done well in arenas because pvp prior to arenas was easy mode for them. If anything, they need to be nerfed. This would make PvP fair for the other 7 classes and force them to learn how to play their characters for real. But instead they're being buffed. It's almost comical; since buffs won't address the reason they're doing poorly in arenas, they'll do just as poorly and whine even more on the forums.

I played a 60 rogue as my main for a while, btw. I'm well aware of the class' abilities, strengths and weaknesses. I think it was pretty well balanced at 60. But in TBC it was buffed in every way conceivable and has become disgustingly overpowered.

And here's my armory, it's my "main" in that it's my only 70, but I'm not sure you call a class that makes you want to throw up when you PvP your main. Nor am I sure whether you call it a main when you only log in for 20 minutes a day to do daily quests.

Playing a rogue at 60 means you know jack squat about them at 70; it's a completely different game. And for the record, rogues are far weaker in TBC than they were pre expansion. This wasn't the case as everyone was leveling up, but as gear gets better and better, rogues will continue to get worse. Their abilities scale nowhere near as well as most other classes. Resilience has already hit them harder than any other class. So you played a rogue at 60? I'm sure you would be glad to know that eviscerate scales so well that it does almost identical damage at 70 as it did at 60. My crit rate has also dropped about 13% in going from 60 -> 70. Add in resilience in the matches I'm playing (380+ resilience) and we're talking about a 25% reduction to my crit rate in 10 levels. You think rogues should be nerfed even more and their players should learn to play? lol.

And as another poster stated, you're completely wrong about the dominant 1v1 class not being viable in arena. Warlocks utterly destroy 2v2/3v3, and their popularity in 5v5 is going through the roof. The upcoming dot/resilience change will do very little/nothing to alter that. As for stunlocking in high end arena, it doesn't even exist (unless you want to start talking about retardedly OP'd mace spec warriors with their t3 blacksmith weapon).

Your armory reflects that your gear is lacking. 150 resilience isn't much. Being elemental makes you a prime target for the rogue. You'd be far better suited to go resto which is an incredibly strong counter to rogues. I know it sucks to be pigeonholed into some given spec, but you should stay away from elemental until you have the gear for it unless you just don't mind getting focus fired (and it sounds like you really do).

Rogues' crit has gone down as their relative AP has gone up. At 60 my mail + shield meant I could take some hits. I even ended up banking my PvP trinket because I had the survivabiility to last through stunlock. Now due to 50-100+ ap per slot and my lower % mitigation I'm lucky to kill a bad rogue with all my cooldowns up.

If I wanted to be a healbitch I would have rolled a paladin. All I want is enjoyable elemental PvP as I had at 60. That's not going to happen, but if I play well I at least have a chance in PvP - except against rogues. Shamans being gimped has no bearing on rogue power.

Don't even try giving me shit about gear. Just because I'm not as geared as the top 1% hardly means 9500 hp / armor and 150 resilience is bad. And it hardly means a rogue in greens / blues should be able to read the paper and take a nap while killing me without even being at his goddamn keyboard.

 

[Zbox]

I'm sorry, but you're just exaggerating so bad that it's impossible to take you seriously. Rogues in greens/blues don't stun lock people to death anymore. It just does not happen. The only exception is when the victim is in even worse (and I mean absolutely freaking terrible) gear than the rogue. Here's the armory for my ele shaman buddy that I arena/bg with pretty often:

http://armory.worldofwarcraft....Stormreaver&n=Nihaltak

He's a great player. He can beat me sometimes, and I can beat him sometimes. He's at least honest about rogues performance in pvp/arena in general right now and he admits that they're hurting and need a considerable buff to be brought in line with others. Maybe you are the one that needs to learn how to counter rogues. It's not hard as a shaman. If you're losing the majority of your fights the problem is with you and your ability to react, the problem has nothing to do with the rogue class.

A shaman was my first 60, I rerolled a rogue after having this impression that they were incredibly overpowered. It didn't take long before I realized that most of my impressions were wrong and based mostly on nonsensical QQ posts from the official wow forums.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Zbox
I'm sorry, but you're just exaggerating so bad that it's impossible to take you seriously. Rogues in greens/blues don't stun lock people to death anymore. It just does not happen. The only exception is when the victim is in even worse (and I mean absolutely freaking terrible) gear than the rogue. Here's the armory for my ele shaman buddy that I arena/bg with pretty often:

http://armory.worldofwarcraft....Stormreaver&n=Nihaltak

He's a great player. He can beat me sometimes, and I can beat him sometimes. He's at least honest about rogues performance in pvp/arena in general right now and he admits that they're hurting and need a considerable buff to be brought in line with others. Maybe you are the one that needs to learn how to counter rogues. It's not hard as a shaman. If you're losing the majority of your fights the problem is with you and your ability to react, the problem has nothing to do with the rogue class.

A shaman was my first 60, I rerolled a rogue after having this impression that they were incredibly overpowered. It didn't take long before I realized that most of my impressions were wrong and based mostly on nonsensical QQ posts from the official wow forums.

Of course he does well, WoW is an MMORPG and thus a gear-based game of progression. With gear better than 99% of players he has a distinct advantage regardless of class balance. With gear better than perhaps 75% I have one too in many cases. My complaint isn't that I can't win, that's only the strawman you've put up to feel so good and self-righteous about knocking it down. My complaint is that for the time investment and gear level I'm at, I'm far too weak due to class and spec, and no class highlights this as well rogues. Pitting the strongest class against the weakest will do that... I pvp'd a good deal at 60, I know what the class and spec should be like. I'm further reminded of what class balance is like every time I play my druid, mage and priest alts.

 

[Zbox]

The complaint regarding time investment and gear level is a valid one, and that's the first time you mentioned your complaint in that way. I wouldn't disagree with that at all. But I would say that your experience is shared by most classes, it is not restricted to shamans. I started late last arena season and much better geared opponents didn't stop me and my druid partner from climbing past 1900 in 2v2 in nothing but full blues. We eventually broke 2000 after picking up some more solid gear.

I won't ever agree with the time requirement that is necessary to be able to compete at the highly competitive level, but it is what it is. We always have the choice of not playing if the retarded grind kills off too much of the fun.

Personally I'd be happy if arena automatically gave everyone equivalent gear. Let skill sort the rest out and just make it so the arena gear is severely gimped for PvE.

 

[CKent]

Lol, 2 rogues just duo'd our GY in WSG for about 5 minutes before the constant ressers could finally kill them. You can't cast on them, you're either stunned or they're immune. You can't melee them, they're invisible. If the shit really hits the fan, they have what, 15 different cooldowns they can use to help them? And this is the god mode class getting buffed? What the hell are the developers smoking, honestly? I cancelled my account, I can't take this anymore.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: CKent
Lol, 2 rogues just duo'd our GY in WSG for about 5 minutes before the constant ressers could finally kill them. You can't cast on them, you're either stunned or they're immune. You can't melee them, they're invisible. If the shit really hits the fan, they have what, 15 different cooldowns they can use to help them? And this is the god mode class getting buffed? What the hell are the developers smoking, honestly? I cancelled my account, I can't take this anymore.

If you find a place to sell your account lemme know

I quit too, but for different reasons.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: CKent
Lol, 2 rogues just duo'd our GY in WSG for about 5 minutes before the constant ressers could finally kill them. You can't cast on them, you're either stunned or they're immune. You can't melee them, they're invisible. If the shit really hits the fan, they have what, 15 different cooldowns they can use to help them? And this is the god mode class getting buffed? What the hell are the developers smoking, honestly? I cancelled my account, I can't take this anymore.

If you find a place to sell your account lemme know

I quit too, but for different reasons.

Last I checked Playerauctions was the place to do it.

And yeah, it would be pretty cheesy to quit because I felt rogues are overpowered :laugh: I'm quitting for a number of reasons, that's just one of them.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: Balt
I don't play anymore, but from what I hear if you pair your Paladin up with an MS warrior you can do really well in the 2v2 arenas.

We're not the best 2v2 team (less than 50% win rate) but the few times we've met a pally/war combo, we've beaten them without either one of us dying. Still haven't seen what the big fuss is with that combo. We (rogue/lock) just go to town on the pally while the warrior is trying to decide which one of us to take out first. Even after a bubble/heal of himself, neither of us die (healthstone, fears, etc.).

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: Balt
I don't play anymore, but from what I hear if you pair your Paladin up with an MS warrior you can do really well in the 2v2 arenas.

We're not the best 2v2 team (less than 50% win rate) but the few times we've met a pally/war combo, we've beaten them without either one of us dying. Still haven't seen what the big fuss is with that combo.

They're nasty because both wear plate, you can't kill the warr while he's getting heals and you can't kill the pally because pallies are friggin unkillable. My 2s team (shaman + hunter) has lost more than we've won against pal/war combos, but the times we've won we've ignored the warrior pretty much, and beat down the pally. You have to kill them like 3 times over, but once you finally do the warr's a sitting duck without heals.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: Balt
I don't play anymore, but from what I hear if you pair your Paladin up with an MS warrior you can do really well in the 2v2 arenas.

We're not the best 2v2 team (less than 50% win rate) but the few times we've met a pally/war combo, we've beaten them without either one of us dying. Still haven't seen what the big fuss is with that combo.

They're nasty because both wear plate, you can't kill the warr while he's getting heals and you can't kill the pally because pallies are friggin unkillable. My 2s team (shaman + hunter) has lost more than we've won against pal/war combos, but the times we've won we've ignored the warrior pretty much, and beat down the pally. You have to kill them like 3 times over, but once you finally do the warr's a sitting duck without heals.

yup, see my edit... I don't know why anyone would NOT go for the healer first... even scrubs like us know that.

BTW, warriors get out of sap by switching stances... someone above said to sap them...

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: CKent
Lol, 2 rogues just duo'd our GY in WSG for about 5 minutes before the constant ressers could finally kill them. You can't cast on them, you're either stunned or they're immune. You can't melee them, they're invisible. If the shit really hits the fan, they have what, 15 different cooldowns they can use to help them? And this is the god mode class getting buffed? What the hell are the developers smoking, honestly? I cancelled my account, I can't take this anymore.

What incoming rogue buff are you talking about ?

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: rh71
yup, see my edit... I don't know why anyone would NOT go for the healer first... even scrubs like us know that.

BTW, warriors get out of sap by switching stances... someone above said to sap them...

What incoming rogue buff are you talking about ?

Pally + clothie, I'll go for the clothie first. I have some pretty awesome burst output and so does my hunter partner. Lol one time in 3v3 I got the wrong target, a resto shaman, and managed to glib him with a lucky dual crit while my partners were attacking a priest :laugh:

Warrs get outta sap by using berserker rage, useable only in berserker stance - so they have to be in that stance when they get sapped to break it. Or use their trinket, since the changes.

Last I heard, the developers were "looking into" rogues and druids, since these two classes perform poorly in arenas. I try to stay away from the official forums, because.... god... I feel dumber every time I go there But that's what information I managed to glean from my last trip to the darkside.

 

[ivan2]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: rh71
yup, see my edit... I don't know why anyone would NOT go for the healer first... even scrubs like us know that.

BTW, warriors get out of sap by switching stances... someone above said to sap them...

What incoming rogue buff are you talking about ?

Pally + clothie, I'll go for the clothie first. I have some pretty awesome burst output and so does my hunter partner. Lol one time in 3v3 I got the wrong target, a resto shaman, and managed to glib him with a lucky dual crit while my partners were attacking a priest :laugh:

Warrs get outta sap by using berserker rage, useable only in berserker stance - so they have to be in that stance when they get sapped to break it. Or use their trinket, since the changes.

Last I heard, the developers were "looking into" rogues and druids, since these two classes perform poorly in arenas. I try to stay away from the official forums, because.... god... I feel dumber every time I go there But that's what information I managed to glean from my last trip to the darkside.

Druids are weak in arenas my ass. 2v2 they are nearly unkillable, yeah maybe not against pally/MS-war pair but pretty much everyone else's doomed. I was in one with 2, by the time I purged one's HoT the other one was already casting the lesser heal. If we focus fire he will just switch to bear and the other will heal him, if I try to interrupt the healer while my partner rogue's banging on the other kitty, he will turn into a bear with like 14k HP that is unkillable the rogue alone... Imagine if you have 5 of them, it's gonna be chaos lol.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: ivan2

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: rh71
yup, see my edit... I don't know why anyone would NOT go for the healer first... even scrubs like us know that.

BTW, warriors get out of sap by switching stances... someone above said to sap them...

What incoming rogue buff are you talking about ?

Pally + clothie, I'll go for the clothie first. I have some pretty awesome burst output and so does my hunter partner. Lol one time in 3v3 I got the wrong target, a resto shaman, and managed to glib him with a lucky dual crit while my partners were attacking a priest :laugh:

Warrs get outta sap by using berserker rage, useable only in berserker stance - so they have to be in that stance when they get sapped to break it. Or use their trinket, since the changes.

Last I heard, the developers were "looking into" rogues and druids, since these two classes perform poorly in arenas. I try to stay away from the official forums, because.... god... I feel dumber every time I go there But that's what information I managed to glean from my last trip to the darkside.

Druids are weak in arenas my ass. 2v2 they are nearly unkillable, yeah maybe not against pally/MS-war pair but pretty much everyone else's doomed. I was in one with 2, by the time I purged one's HoT the other one was already casting the lesser heal. If we focus fire he will just switch to bear and the other will heal him, if I try to interrupt the healer while my partner rogue's banging on the other kitty, he will turn into a bear with like 14k HP that is unkillable the rogue alone... Imagine if you have 5 of them, it's gonna be chaos lol.

Well, since I'm a shaman, every other class seems strong...

But if you look at the numbers, the top teams have an overabundance of warriors and paladins, and very few rogues, druids and hunters. Shamans do well in 5s because of bloodlust and because bad teams won't kill them first (a good team will always glib the weakest member first, which is a shaman). Shamans don't do too well 2s and 3s, though resto is an ok spec for this (pallies are far better pvp healers though).

 

[Aikouka]

Paladins are nice as healers because they simply take a lot of melee damage to kill. Paladins are inherently weak to casters though, which is why they have talents to reduce the amount of spell damage they take. I'd say their worst opponent would be a decent warlock as Paladins cannot remove curses. Although with spell steal at level 70, a frost mage can be a decent opponent for a paladin (you steal BoF).

Rogues... heh, where to begin. Rogues are not designed for "true" PVP. What holds them back? Energy. Energy isn't usually a limiting factor in a single fight, but it's easy to look at in PVE. Have you ever fought more than one mob at a time as a rogue? You notice that you can get some great burst damage on the first mob, but when it comes time for the second... you're scraping for some energy to back up the white damage. Rogues are designed for one-on-one fights and not fighting back-to-back. This is not how PVP is and really makes rogues perfect for one thing... ganking. As CKent mentioned above, two rogues were destroying their graveyard in WSG. How is this possible? They're using the rogue ganking aspect to the fullest and what makes it strong is... they've probably got a good 10 second window after they kill everyone and the spirit ressurector ressurects everyone again. This window is what's key. Although, my mage and priest have both killed rogues that guard graveyards. My rogue just gets away .

The energy topic is why thistle tea was so popular in PVP and you always saw rogue videos using it so often. The energy topic is why combat has a talent to possibly restore energy via off-hand attacks. You can also go into how the class is very reliant on long cooldowns to turn the tide of a bad fight. A lot of classes are somewhat reliant on cooldowns, but theirs tend to be short (priests with psychic scream... mages with blink, etc).

To sum it up. Rogues aren't horrible, but they're pigeon holed into a specific way of PVPing because of how they're designed. When they start deviating, there's issues because keeping control in a long fight is much harder for a rogue.

Also, according to Blizzard reps, the rogue change to Blind (changing duration to 8 seconds, 1 minute cooldown and no blinding powder required) has been removed from the PTR and whether or not rogues will get this change is up in the air.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: CKent
Lol, 2 rogues just duo'd our GY in WSG for about 5 minutes before the constant ressers could finally kill them. You can't cast on them, you're either stunned or they're immune. You can't melee them, they're invisible. If the shit really hits the fan, they have what, 15 different cooldowns they can use to help them? And this is the god mode class getting buffed? What the hell are the developers smoking, honestly? I cancelled my account, I can't take this anymore.

You must have had some really crappy players if 2x rogues held your GY. All you really need is a paladin + warrior and those rogues go bye bye very fast.

 

[ivan2]

I foiled an attempt to gank me last night in 5v5. We have 2 healers(my resto shaman and a recently specced holy priest), a hunter lock and war. One time we had the same team twice in a row, the first time they ganked me from the beginning and I was dead in like 5 seconds without proccing BL or getting a heal in. Lessons learned, the second time they came close again, I timed a warstomp, re-drop the earthbind and tried to move as far as possible. I spend the rest of the fight healing myself while my teammates hammering on them, but I guess if there's one thing a tauren is good at, it's to become a resto shaman.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: ivan2
..., but I guess if there's one thing a tauren is good at, it's to become a cheeseburger.

Mmmm... Fixed!

Oh and about the situation, if you think about it, Shamans have no real way of stopping the people unlike priest (fear), druid (cyclone, bear form, roots), paladin (BoP, DS). Unfortunately for us space cows, ... we have nothing that great .

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: CKent
Lol, 2 rogues just duo'd our GY in WSG for about 5 minutes before the constant ressers could finally kill them. You can't cast on them, you're either stunned or they're immune. You can't melee them, they're invisible. If the shit really hits the fan, they have what, 15 different cooldowns they can use to help them? And this is the god mode class getting buffed? What the hell are the developers smoking, honestly? I cancelled my account, I can't take this anymore.

You must have had some really crappy players if 2x rogues held your GY. All you really need is a paladin + warrior and those rogues go bye bye very fast.

Well it was wsg, not an arena match... so nothing organized, just 1-3 people ressing at a time, and with 50,000 forms of CC between the two rogues there wasn't much anyone could do. I honestly fucking hate this class and think most rogues are 12 in real life & want to be "INVIZIBUL NINJAZ!!11!!, LOLOLOLOLZ!!!111!". I find it disgusting that Blizzard caters to this mentality by buffing the piss out of them endlessly with each patch, to the point they're at currently which is essentially an unkillable class with raid boss abilities. Yes, it's how I really feel, no apologies. Sue me.