Warhammer: End Times - Vermintide

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Zenoth

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,190
185
106
Looks fun indeed.

I'll keep an eye on it for sure. Admittedly I would prefer a game just like that but set in the WH40K setting instead. Imagine, just replace Skavens with all sorts of Chaos followers (many species, not just humans), Orks (in their unique separate maps), or even Tyranids. And play as Imperials, Space Marines and Eldar units (I'd presume that when playing as Eldar units there's only Eldar in the team, because I really don't see any sorts of friendly chitchat between a Chaplain and a Farseer).

I do like WHFB nonetheless, it looks fun, and it's not expensive so I'll most likely buy it at some point (just not now, I'm basically just waiting for Fallout 4).
 
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clok1966

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,395
13
76
Been playing it awhile now that its in open beta, some thoughts, excuse the LFD comparisons, but its pretty much the same game with some new stuff.

Cons:

WAY TO FRIGIN DARK, yes I understand it night, but taking its spiritual guide (lfd) who used light amazingly well (flashlights, way points etc) this game makes poor use of lighting, its often hard to see whats going on with no way of solving it. I know i could crank the brightness, but thats not how you solve a game problem.

Needs work on movement/fluidity of characters and mobs. its not bad, but again L4D has it down well, this game is so-so. Hit boxes are not good, and melee combat feels "off" because of it.

rats is rats is rats.. with the dark palate and such its a bit hard to really see any difference in rats. Some have bright colored accessories (poison, flame) but others... one thing that Made LFD work was specials, and the distinctness (sounds, etc) to warn you. This game is poor in this area, in the end it feels like a horde of rats, the worry, the sound clues etc are all gone. Now the game does make up for some of this (see pros)

Artwork, its Warhammer so i understand the artwork, but it really gets to feel very 'same old thing" shacks, alleys, stairs, again, how do you change this up?

PROS:

Long missions, love this, i just hope we don't get the WOW crowds (instance takes a few seconds to long and they quit out) where as the game gets older people cant take time to play, just want the end result. While I would guess as time goes on it will seem shorter, right now a full mission seems 2-4 times longer then L4D which is great in my book. They also put items in hidden areas and encourage exploring which breaks the group up, and makes the game more exciting. And many items are worth having, or just plain needed.

Classes- Very nice twist, not 4 people with same guns, each has abilities, Ilike this very much, while its not a HUGE gameplay difference, you do need to learn each class to play it well.

TEAMWORK!!!!!!!- this game has this RIGHT in spades, LFD will punish the stragglers or rushers, but if you are good you can handle it. Not this game (or not till I am much better). Stragglers will be snatched.. there is no maybe, they WILL!, so not lolly gagging around. Rushers will be pounced.. get out ahead all alone.. you will be uncapped. This game really shines with good teamwork. Forums are already full of "to hard" statements and from my game time, its just the SOLO, F-the group players who are having a rough go of it. RUSHING hard (a valid LFD tactic, almost required for hardest level) is punished in this game. Seems the devs actually wanted you play the levels, not just run through them.

Specials: I like that they are not so easily countered in this game. In LfD you can almost always complete a map and never have a special incap anybody if you are good. The Specials in this game are to force Teamwork, so they are quite successful, but easy to take care of .

LOOT: its got a level loot system, nice for replay. As i haven't looked at it to much i wont comment on it other then to say I like it.


Overall I really like the game, its a nice LFD change up. I think its a great game and needs a tiny bit of polish (less dark) and bit more polish on player/mob interaction.
As is, its good, almost as good as LfD was when it came out. I like it.
 
Zenoth

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,190
185
106
I'm still keeping an eye on it (I.E. watching streams from time to time) and checking on the updates (on its Steam page, for example there's been a patch yesterday apparently).

I do have questions for those of you here playing it.

1) How is the online community on that one? How do most strangers react if you unintentionally "screw up" because you're either new or just too tired and you have the reflexes of someone who've been deprived of sleep for a month? I am of course aware that "Internet is gonna Internet", there's impatient jerks everywhere and the classical ten years-olds screaming Twitter slang "insults" in their microphone.

I'm asking this because even though I absolutely love Left 4 Dead I just cannot stand playing that one with (especially not against) strangers. It is a game that requires friends or siblings to enjoy if we are to replace A.I.s. It's both an advantage and a disadvantage. It's fun playing with people you know well-enough to avoid instant kicks and insults, and even have a laugh from so-called "screw ups" because... oh yeah... it's a video game and we're not doing something that will determine the fate of humanity in the coming 24 hours. But when said friends aren't online you're "stuck" with bots (which are rarely decent, and usually trash) or risking going online because you're inexplicably confident in the moment of your decision that "today it's gonna be different", when in fact you know deep down inside you that you'll be kicked in your first match within the first five minutes because you're not playing in a way that satisfies Mr Joe stranger who didn't say a word to you but happens to know the two other guys playing whom also agree to kick you.

And the above, to me, applies for both cooperation play and Versus (mostly Versus though). I have to admit, however, that exactly because such scenarios happened a few times I 'quit' playing L4D online (by that I mean... with strangers obviously) since probably a year by now, and whenever I do want to play I'm stuck with bots because, even though they're usually pretty bad, they don't speak a word and I can just enjoy the game at a pace that satisfies me, until I get bored half way through the first level I'm trying to finish (because bots).

Which leads me to my next questions...

2) How is the A.I. in Vermintide? The streams I've watched happened to be online, usually with four players. I might have watched one or two of them in which the streamer was only playing with just one guy and they had 2 bots with them but I can't tell for sure (I'd have to look for those specifically perhaps on YouTube). Do they get stuck in the map's geometry? Do they suddenly just brain-dead stop moving and shooting? Do they ignore you when you get taken away by some 'special' rat? I mean, generally-speaking and perhaps in comparison to L4D's A.I., how is it, playable and rarely buggy? Or is it a case of "you better just find friends" otherwise just don't bother playing it?

Because the more I look at the game and the more I can definitely see myself playing it for quite some time (until Fallout 4 takes my social life away until next year). And, ultimately, the price helps a lot.
 
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TheFamilyMan

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2003
1,198
1
71
Zenoth said:
1) How is the online community on that one? How do most strangers react if you unintentionally "screw up" because you're either new or just too tired and you have the reflexes of someone who've been deprived of sleep for a month? I am of course aware that "Internet is gonna Internet", there's impatient jerks everywhere and the classical ten years-olds screaming Twitter slang "insults" in their microphone.
Click to expand...

Online community is hit or miss...just like L4D was. You will get screamed at, yelled at, berated, and kicked from parties for screwing up...not because you screwed up but because maybe you haven't played that particular map before or you happened to be the one the packmaster took or etc etc. I have not found the online community to be that great so far and I'm quite a few hours into the game and at lvl 30 so far.

Zenoth said:
I'm asking this because even though I absolutely love Left 4 Dead I just cannot stand playing that one with (especially not against) strangers. It is a game that requires friends or siblings to enjoy if we are to replace A.I.s. It's both an advantage and a disadvantage. It's fun playing with people you know well-enough to avoid instant kicks and insults, and even have a laugh from so-called "screw ups" because... oh yeah... it's a video game and we're not doing something that will determine the fate of humanity in the coming 24 hours. But when said friends aren't online you're "stuck" with bots (which are rarely decent, and usually trash) or risking going online because you're inexplicably confident in the moment of your decision that "today it's gonna be different", when in fact you know deep down inside you that you'll be kicked in your first match within the first five minutes because you're not playing in a way that satisfies Mr Joe stranger who didn't say a word to you but happens to know the two other guys playing whom also agree to kick you.
Click to expand...

Hope you have 3 others that you can play with fairly regularly becuase, as my above statement indicates, you'll have to either play with the bots in-game (good, but not that great) or some screaming twit whose balls haven't even dropped yet.


Zenoth said:
2) How is the A.I. in Vermintide? The streams I've watched happened to be online, usually with four players. I might have watched one or two of them in which the streamer was only playing with just one guy and they had 2 bots with them but I can't tell for sure (I'd have to look for those specifically perhaps on YouTube). Do they get stuck in the map's geometry? Do they suddenly just brain-dead stop moving and shooting? Do they ignore you when you get taken away by some 'special' rat? I mean, generally-speaking and perhaps in comparison to L4D's A.I., how is it, playable and rarely buggy? Or is it a case of "you better just find friends" otherwise just don't bother playing it?

Because the more I look at the game and the more I can definitely see myself playing it for quite some time (until Fallout 4 takes my social life away until next year). And, ultimately, the price helps a lot.
Click to expand...

The AI is okay for the most part...it's the RNG over RNG over RNG that is the worst part about this game. The bots in your part have okay AI and are fairly adept at combat. I have seen times where they would ignore you as you are taken away by a packmaster or jumped by a gutter runner. Basically, you just better find friends and regulars to play with.

Now, the Vermintide, on the other hand, have the grace of RNGesus on their side. I'm at the point where I'm about to stop playing for a while due to this. At times, easy feels like hard, normal feels like easy, hard feels like nightmare, easy feels like normal...there's not rhyme or reason to it and it's not so much about the health/attack power of the different levels, it's about the special Vermintide in each one. I've been in an easy map where you had a rat Ogre spawn and during the fight a packmaster and/or gutter runner also shows up.

And as I mentioned before about RNG over RNG over RNG...it applies to the shitty loot system as well. Expect much grind and frustration from this game. I don't see it holding much space in my playtime the way L4D and L4D2 did. To be honest with you, there's a much better, similar MP experience you can have with DA:I MP. It's almost like Vermintide has taken some good parts from L4D series and DA:I, mooshed them together in a haphazzard manner and ignored the gaping holes that remained. One huge hole is that there's no valid perception of depth...many times the Vermintide will appear to hit me with melee strike that they're way out of what your depth perception perceives is a hit range. It basically boils down to a "keep clicking" type of swingfest. Ranged, on the other hand, feels pretty polished. There's no balance currently and the game is very binary. Expect to waste countless hours getting through 90% of a map only to lose in defeat and get jack for the time/effort. You can't even say, "Okay, going to run that again but we'll have a better strategy for chokepoint X." because RNG will determine your failure point to be somewhere else. This is why playing with 3 others via VoiP who have already felt the pain of the brutal learning curve in this game is best.
 
slag

slag

Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
10,473
81
101
I want this game, but also want a few other new titles and just don't have the money to spend on FO4, this, and the other couple I have been eyeing....

Sure looks fun though.
 
shortylickens

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Owned this for a week, finally got around to playing.

Loads of fun. Much better than Left 4 Dead. Your characters are unique and you can upgrade them in between missions.
Also, you can choose your mission, redo them at higher difficulties, and unlock cool junk for your hideout.

Does anybody know if they plan to add more chapters to the End Times?
 
Denithor

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,300
23
81
Shorty you playing random MP or with friends or what? How many players do you need to play properly? I have one regular gaming buddy, we're always looking for new coop games.
 
shortylickens

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
The bots are pretty good.
But 4 human players would probably be more fun. The AI wont complete objectives on its own, but it is pretty good at stomping enemies so you can do the work.
 
Stg-Flame

Stg-Flame

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2007
3,514
478
126
Been wanting to give this a try. I only got into MP for L4D2 and only play single player for L4D. Is the game still fun for single player?
 
CuriousMike

CuriousMike

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2001
3,044
543
136
Just spent a couple hours playing co-op with 3 other friends.
Pretty fun, I could see putting some hours into it.
 
M0oG0oGaiPan

M0oG0oGaiPan

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2000
7,858
2
0
digitalgamedeals.com
this game is pretty fun especially if you like melee combat. some of the animation looks pretty rough but it reminds me of an old school shooter like quake. even on easy you definitely need to work together otherwise your team gets wiped pretty quick. IMO it can be hard to determine what the special vermin are and they seem to be rehashes of the special characters in l4d2. Is this a total conversion?
 
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