War to last Months..

[tec699]

link...

Iraqis learned lessons of war..

It looks like we totally underestimated the Iraqi military. Our government was predicting what.. 2 weeks of fighting and then the Iraqi regime would collapse. Yea.. ok. You never underestimate your enemy, and that's exactly what we did.

Also Cheny is denying that the US government has stated that this was going to be a quick war.

Here's some not so prescient quotes from Cheney:

VICE PRES. CHENEY: ... Now, I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people,my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. And the president?s made it very clear that our purpose there is, if we are forced to do this, will in fact be to stand up a government that?s representative of the Iraqi people, hopefully democratic due respect for human rights, and it, obviously, involves a major commitment by the United States, but we think it?s a commitment worth making. And we don?t have the option anymore of simply laying back and hoping that events in Iraq will not constitute a threat to the U.S. Clearly, 12 years after the Gulf War, we?re back in a situation where he does constitute a threat.

MR. RUSSERT: If your analysis is not correct, and we?re not treated as liberators, but as conquerors, and the Iraqis begin to resist, particularly in Baghdad,do you think the American people are prepared for a long, costly, and bloody battle with significant American casualties?

VICE PRES. CHENEY:Well, I don?t think it?s likely to unfold that way, Tim, because I really do believe that we will be greeted as liberators.I?ve talked with a lot of Iraqis in the last several months myself, had them to the White House. The president and I have met with them, various groups and individuals, people who have devoted their lives from the outside to trying to change things inside Iraq. And like Kanan Makiya who?s a professor at Brandeis, but an Iraqi, he?s written great books about the subject, knows the country intimately, and is a part of the democratic opposition and resistance. The read we get on the people of Iraq isthere is no question but what they want to the get rid of Saddam Hussein and they will welcome as liberators the United States when we come to do that.

Liberators? Ha! The Iraqi people are not looking at us as liberators. Cheny you need to get out of your ethnocentric mindset, because your version of democracy is not theirs.

Iraqis return to fight American soliders...

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: tec699

It looks like we totally underestimated the Iraqi military. Our government was predicting what.. 2 weeks of fighting and then the Iraqi regime would collapse. Yea.. ok. You never underestimate your enemy, and that's exactly what we did.

Also Cheny is denying that the US government has stated that this was going to be a quick war.

The media was predicting a quick war...not the administration. Yes, some of the resistance probably has been a surprise but the coalition is knocking on Baghdad's door (300 miles INTO Iraq) in only one week!

 

[tec699]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: tec699

It looks like we totally underestimated the Iraqi military. Our government was predicting what.. 2 weeks of fighting and then the Iraqi regime would collapse. Yea.. ok. You never underestimate your enemy, and that's exactly what we did.

Also Cheny is denying that the US government has stated that this was going to be a quick war.

The media was predicting a quick war...not the administration. Yes, some of the resistance probably has been a surprise but the coalition is knocking on Baghdad's door (300 miles INTO Iraq) in only one week!

Yea that's correct. Weve blown thru Iraq at an incredible pace, but were stretching our supply lines a bit to thin. The upcoming days will tell us whether or not this will be a nasty war.

just my opinion...

 

[Kadarin]

I think the American people initially were suffering from a collective form of Gulf War overconfidencitis, not taking into account the fact that Saddam has had the last 12 years to devise tactics and strategy to counter the US and to come up with methods (such as holding women and children hostage) of forcing his own troops to fight in the face of overwhelming firepower.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: tec699

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: tec699

It looks like we totally underestimated the Iraqi military. Our government was predicting what.. 2 weeks of fighting and then the Iraqi regime would collapse. Yea.. ok. You never underestimate your enemy, and that's exactly what we did.

Also Cheny is denying that the US government has stated that this was going to be a quick war.

The media was predicting a quick war...not the administration. Yes, some of the resistance probably has been a surprise but the coalition is knocking on Baghdad's door (300 miles INTO Iraq) in only one week!

Yea that's correct. Weve blown thru Iraq at an incredible pace, but were stretching our supply lines a bit to thin. The upcoming days will tell us whether or not this will be a nasty war.

just my opinion...

Please refer to the thread I started concerning Colin Powell and 48hours' Lesley Stahl. Powell correctly states that there is no large force that threatens our supply lines. Only small groups who resort to guerilla and terrorist tactics.

Also, they are holding up outside of Baghdad right now while they concentrate on cleaning up the rear and pounding Republican Guard units from the air.

 

[LeadMagnet]

WAR TIME LINE

May 1st The war is over - just cleaning up and securing areas now.

The US military control will take 6+ months ,with serveral casulties due to pockets of loyalist and extreemist.

Dec 2003 The US military to transitioned control over to the UN.

2004 The UN will begin building a new Iraqi goverment.

2005 The US military will be completely out of Iraq.

2008 UN peacekeepers begin leaving.

2019 alternate fuel cars out sell gasoline powered cars.

2021 the Iraqi goverment colapses into a radical Islamic militant state.

France will always be a bunch of $&^#(*%^$.

 

It looks like we totally underestimated the Iraqi military. Our government was predicting what.. 2 weeks of fighting and then the Iraqi regime would collapse. Yea.. ok. You never underestimate your enemy, and that's exactly what we did.

Tell me something please, do you enjoy making this stuff up ?

Please post me a link to these supposed facts of yours

Right from the get go, Bush stated that the war could be long and costly.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Also, they are holding up outside of Baghdad right now while they concentrate on cleaning up the rear and pounding Republican Guard units from the air.

Ayup

 

[wnied]

No one in the current administration has ever said that this would be a quick war. That being said, I'm getting a little tired of the press' assumptions that the Iraqi Military were underestimated in any way, by our military before we began this war. Our military and its might are best served when proper planning and backup plans are laid, and our forces combined in their efforts to change and adapt to the situations which arise in the battlefield. I've never expected this war would be any less than two months, and any more than four at most. I find our greatest weakness lies in our politicians ideals that we cater to what they believe the American public want to hear...

...And that my friends, is a dangerous leash to place on a military fighting a war, with an enemy unleashed by convention. Just ask any Vietnam Vet.
~wnied~

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: wnied
No one in the current administration has ever said that this would be a quick war. That being said, I'm getting a little tired of the press' assumptions that the Iraqi Military were underestimated in any way, by our military before we began this war. Our military and its might are best served when proper planning and backup plans are laid, and our forces combined in their efforts to change and adapt to the situations which arise in the battlefield. I've never expected this war would be any less than two months, and any more than four at most. I find our greatest weakness lies in our politicians ideals that we cater to what they believe the American public want to hear...

...And that my friends, is a dangerous leash to place on a military fighting a war, with an enemy unleashed by convention. Just ask any Vietnam Vet.
~wnied~

I was going to add a comment but yours sums it up pretty well.

 

[308nato]

Bypass and Haul Ass.....thats the plan.

The media and their "elite" Republican Guard crap is getting annoying as well.

Does elite mean "soon to cry like little girls" in Arabic or something ?

 

[Moonbeam]

Did somebody say Viet Nam?

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Did somebody say Viet Nam?

Nope, I did not hear that from anyone here. Within 1 week the coalition troops are within 50 miles of bagdhad and there is zero opposition in the air. Unlike the North Vietnamese, the Iraqi military has no sustainable supply lines.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: rudder

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Did somebody say Viet Nam?

Nope, I did not hear that from anyone here. Within 1 week the coalition troops are within 50 miles of bagdhad and there is zero opposition in the air. Unlike the North Vietnamese, the Iraqi military has no sustainable supply lines.

The media is starting to make that comparison after just one week. Namely, Peter Jennings. They are also bringing out that other media buzzword, "quagmire".

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Queasy

The media is starting to make that comparison after just one week. Namely, Peter Jennings. They are also bringing out that other media buzzword, "quagmire".

One WEEK after this begins? Good gawd!!!!

Our involvment in Viet Nam started out with some helicopters and a few hundred men? And now we have 300,000 troops and who knows how much firepower?

A sandstorm stalls us for a day and they (the media) are already saying we're falling behind and comparing to another Viet Nam?

<----- tempted to just turn off the damn TV completely

 

[Corn]

Did somebody say Viet Nam?

Did somebody simple minded rhetoric?

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes, Corn, I think you just did and in two ways.

 

[NesuD]

Standing back and looking at what has transpired it looks like a well executed plan to me. Consider this. It has always been known that Iraq's best divisions were generally located around baghdad. Now what is the worst that could happen to Allied forces in the first few days of the war? I would say the worst thing would be for 1 or more of the elite Republican guard divisions to move south and engage our forces in the south in a pitched battle causing a tremendous number of casualties and bogging us down before we finish them off. How could they do that? Consider this. What in this campaign is most noticeably different than the first gulf war? 30 days of preliminary bombardment is the glaring difference. That bombardment is what allowed our forces to so completely dominate the field in that war. Here's my take on it. I think that all along the plan was to move toward baghdad as quickly as possible to force the Republican guard divisions to stay home so to speak. By threatening baghdad like this they basically are freezing the main elements of the Republican guard divisions in roughly a 75 mile radious of Baghdad. Now that the allies have for all intents and purposes frozen them in place the allies can now hold their positions reinforce, rest, Strenghthen lines of communication and supply, mop up the pockets of resistence in the south and begin the flow of humanitarian relief to the liberated areas. It also gives them more time to give the Republican guards the massive bombardment that will weaken them to the point that they will no longer have the capacity to inflict the damages on our troops that an undamaged iraqi army possibly could. Basically the Coalition forces in my opinion have them between a rock and a hard place. The iraqi divisions cannot leave the vicinity of Baghdad without leaving it vulnerable to capture. They also cannot attack in force one part of the forces arranged against them because doing so would require them to commit to many of their forces to adequately protect baghdad leaving it once again vulnerable to capture by other elements of the coalition. I believe that this was the basic plan all along and was concieved this way for the purpose of minimizing our casualties. Personally i think it is brilliant. We have nothing here but time. Time is our ally we can afford to wait and wear them down at little risk to ourselves.
of course i could be totally wrong the extent of my military experience is basically Avalon Hill board games of the major Civil war battles which i haven't played in 20 years.

 

[Spyro]

<----- tempted to just turn off the damn TV completely

Well what are you waiting for???

 

[Moonbeam]

Yup, if the elite forces start killing the citizens of Baghdad we can just sit out side the city and wait till they're all dead to save them.

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yup, if the elite forces start killing the citizens of Baghdad we can just sit out side the city and wait till they're all dead to save them.

Doubt that. hard to force people to fight and demonstrate for you if they are dead.

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[Tab]

Comparing this is Vietnam is idiotic. The goverment has changed, the people has changed, the military has changed...

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yup, if the elite forces start killing the citizens of Baghdad we can just sit out side the city and wait till they're all dead to save them.

Yeah, I agree except I'd would have taken it a step further. We could have just stayed home. After a while Saddam will undoubtedly exhaust himself from killing his own people. His mental anguish over his acts must surely crush him. And even his bright little boy Uday will fall under the knife of self-loathing one day. Then we will have freed them without the loss of a single American life or upsetting the delicate sensibilities of the other Arabs in the region.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Queasy

The media is starting to make that comparison after just one week. Namely, Peter Jennings. They are also bringing out that other media buzzword, "quagmire".

One WEEK after this begins? Good gawd!!!!

Our involvment in Viet Nam started out with some helicopters and a few hundred men? And now we have 300,000 troops and who knows how much firepower?

A sandstorm stalls us for a day and they (the media) are already saying we're falling behind and comparing to another Viet Nam?

<----- tempted to just turn off the damn TV completely

Well, you know, the media has an attention span just capable of staying focused upon a 30 second advertising spot. Anything longer than that and they're bored already.

 

[Moonbeam]

jjones, you don't understand. Saddam and Uday are what extreme unrecognized self-loathing look like. There's is the struggle for revenge over the loss of soul, joy, and love. You make the mistake to think they would know it.