War on the Cheap

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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The true traitors.

From the earliest planning stages until now, the war in Iraq has been a tragic exercise in official incompetence. The original rationale for the war was wrong. The intelligence was wrong. The estimates of required troop strength were wrong. The war hawks' guesses about the response of the Iraqi people were wrong. The cost estimates were wrong, and on and on.[/b]


War on the Cheap

By BOB HERBERT

Published: December 20, 2004

Greg Rund was a freshman at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., in 1999 when two students shot and killed a teacher, a dozen of their fellow students and themselves. Mr. Rund survived that horror, but he wasn't able to survive the war in Iraq. The 21-year-old Marine lance corporal was killed on Dec. 11 in Falluja.

The people who were so anxious to launch the war in Iraq are a lot less enthusiastic about properly supporting the troops who are actually fighting, suffering and dying in it. Corporal Rund was on his second tour of duty in Iraq. Because of severe military personnel shortages, large numbers of troops are serving multiple tours in the war zone, and many are having their military enlistments involuntarily extended.

Troops approaching the end of their tours in Iraq are frequently dealt the emotional body blow of unexpected orders blocking their departure for home. "I've never seen so many grown men cry," said Paul Rieckhoff, a former infantry platoon leader who founded Operation Truth, an advocacy group for soldiers and veterans.

"Soldiers will do whatever you ask them to do," said Mr. Rieckhoff. "But when you tell them the finish line is here, and then you keep moving it back every time they get five meters away from it, it starts to really wear on them. It affects morale."

We don't have enough troops because we are fighting the war on the cheap. The Bush administration has refused to substantially expand the volunteer military and there is no public support for a draft. So the same troops head in and out of Iraq, and then back in again, as if through a revolving door. That naturally heightens their chances of being killed or wounded.

A reckoning is coming. The Army National Guard revealed last Thursday that it had missed its recruiting goals for the past two months by 30 percent. Lt. Gen. H. Steven Blum, who heads the National Guard Bureau, said: "We're in a more difficult recruiting environment, period. There's no question that when you have a sustained ground combat operation going that the Guard's participating in, that makes recruiting more difficult."

Just a few days earlier, the chief of the Army Reserve, Lt. Gen. James Helmly, told The Dallas Morning News that recruiting was in a "precipitous decline" that, if not reversed, could lead to renewed discussions about reinstatement of the draft.

The Bush administration, which has asked so much of the armed forces, has established a pattern of dealing in bad faith with its men and women in uniform. The callousness of its treatment of the troops was, of course, never more clear than in Donald Rumsfeld's high-handed response to a soldier's question about the shortages of battle armor in Iraq.

As the war in Iraq goes more and more poorly, the misery index of the men and women serving there gets higher and higher. More than 1,300 have been killed. Many thousands are coming home with agonizing wounds. Scott Shane of The Times reported last week that according to veterans' advocates and military doctors, the already hard-pressed system of health care for veterans "is facing a potential deluge of tens of thousands of soldiers returning from Iraq with serious mental health problems brought on by the stress and carnage of war."

Through the end of September, nearly 900 troops had been evacuated from Iraq by the Army for psychiatric reasons, included attempts or threatened attempts at suicide. Dr. Stephen C. Joseph, an assistant secretary of defense for health affairs from 1994 to 1997, said, "I have a very strong sense that the mental health consequences are going to be the medical story of this war."

When the war in Afghanistan as well as Iraq is considered, some experts believe that the number of American troops needing mental health treatment could exceed 100,000.

From the earliest planning stages until now, the war in Iraq has been a tragic exercise in official incompetence. The original rationale for the war was wrong. The intelligence was wrong. The estimates of required troop strength were wrong. The war hawks' guesses about the response of the Iraqi people were wrong. The cost estimates were wrong, and on and on.

Nevertheless the troops have fought valiantly, and the price paid by many has been horrific. They all deserve better than the bad faith and shoddy treatment they are receiving from the highest officials of their government.

 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
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Originally posted by: BBond


Nevertheless the troops have fought valiantly, and the price paid by many has been horrific. They all deserve better than the bad faith and shoddy treatment they are receiving from the highest officials of their government.
What are you doing for the troops, Bob?

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond


Nevertheless the troops have fought valiantly, and the price paid by many has been horrific. They all deserve better than the bad faith and shoddy treatment they are receiving from the highest officials of their government.
What are you doing for the troops, Bob?



He voted for that guy that did not want fund body armor.... war on the cheap as they say. And has complained about every bit of spending in Iraq.
 

Feep

Senior member
Aug 30, 2004
224
0
0
wow, what a load of liberal bullshit!

The American troops are in Iraq liberating the country from a cruel and oppressive regime, and yet the American Governemt is being painted as evil. Please try to remember that this is an all vollunteer army. These people choose to join, and thus they made a commitment to fight. They do not get to decided not to becasue they disagree with the politics behind the war.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Lot of good your empty "prayers" and hiding behind a flag has done for the dead and wounded soldiers and the slaughtered iraqi familys.
The true supporters of our troops say "Bring them home." before they cause more damage to themselves and countless innocents forced into warfare.
This war is as much as a failure as the so-called pResident who cooked us this harebrained scheme.
Better start praying your bush/xtrian-god isn't held accountable anytime soon.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: Steeplerot
Lot of good your empty "prayers" and hiding behind a flag has done for the dead and wounded soldiers and the slaughtered iraqi familys.
The true supporters of our troops say "Bring them home." before they cause more damage to themselves and countless innocents forced into warfare.
This war is as much as a failure as the so-called pResident who cooked us this harebrained scheme.
Better start praying your bush/xtrian-god isn't held accountable anytime soon.


"War on the Cheap"



Try to keep up, Steeplerot. :)


Or as an alternate post:

Originally posted by: Feep
wow, what a load of liberal bullshit!


Heh heh..
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond


Nevertheless the troops have fought valiantly, and the price paid by many has been horrific. They all deserve better than the bad faith and shoddy treatment they are receiving from the highest officials of their government.
What are you doing for the troops, Bob?

Well George,

I'm telling the truth wherever I can. If Bush had done the same the troops wouldn't be there in the first place.

Anti-Bush is not anti-troops. Just the opposite.

 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond


Nevertheless the troops have fought valiantly, and the price paid by many has been horrific. They all deserve better than the bad faith and shoddy treatment they are receiving from the highest officials of their government.
What are you doing for the troops, Bob?

Well George,

I'm telling the truth wherever I can. If Bush had done the same the troops wouldn't be there in the first place.

Anti-Bush is not anti-troops. Just the opposite.
Talk of truth is cheap, Bob.

How about that vote for that guy that did not want to fund Body Armor? I would rather talk about that. That was action, and it has teeth,,, I mean in light of the op, we really should go there, Bob.

 

Feep

Senior member
Aug 30, 2004
224
0
0
you can't support the troops without supporting what they are doing. They are there to spread democracy to people who have been oppressed. Its a sad day when that is not univerasally supported.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Fixed:
you can't support the troops without supporting what america stands for. They were told they were there to spread democracy to people who have been oppressed. Its a sad day when that is not the case and have become the opressors.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond


Nevertheless the troops have fought valiantly, and the price paid by many has been horrific. They all deserve better than the bad faith and shoddy treatment they are receiving from the highest officials of their government.
What are you doing for the troops, Bob?

Well George,

I'm telling the truth wherever I can. If Bush had done the same the troops wouldn't be there in the first place.

Anti-Bush is not anti-troops. Just the opposite.
Talk of truth is cheap, Bob.

How about that vote for that guy that did not want to fund Body Armor? I would rather talk about that. That was action, and it has teeth,,, I mean in light of the op, we really should go there, Bob.

You have no idea who I voted for.

So the body armor was funded but the troops don't have any. I wonder what happened to all that funding, Fred??? Did it go to Halliburton overcharges? Now, that's supporting the troops.

We all do what we can to help. I don't have to catalog my donations for you.

 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond


Nevertheless the troops have fought valiantly, and the price paid by many has been horrific. They all deserve better than the bad faith and shoddy treatment they are receiving from the highest officials of their government.
What are you doing for the troops, Bob?

Well George,

I'm telling the truth wherever I can. If Bush had done the same the troops wouldn't be there in the first place.

Anti-Bush is not anti-troops. Just the opposite.
Talk of truth is cheap, Bob.

How about that vote for that guy that did not want to fund Body Armor? I would rather talk about that. That was action, and it has teeth,,, I mean in light of the op, we really should go there, Bob.

You have no idea who I voted for.

So the body armor was funded but the troops don't have any. I wonder what happened to all that funding, Fred??? Did it go to Halliburton overcharges? Now, that's supporting the troops.

We all do what we can to help. I don't have to catalog my donations for you.
Its Ok, Bob.

I understand that the direction this thread is being pushed is a little overwhelming for you and that you have no solid ground to shore up the pathetic point that you tried to make with your op. Consider your ass owned on this one, Bob, because I do know who you voted for. :)

Catch you later, Bob. I got to go....

 

Feep

Senior member
Aug 30, 2004
224
0
0
hey steeplerot, i want to comment on that link you have in your profile. It is complete slanderous bullshit.

especially this photo

http://www.geocities.com/asheville4kerry/image014.jpg

the caption said "Nascar dad for bush"

As sick as that photo is, the guy has a freaking 3 on his Back not a B

That whole sight just sickens me. It is in very poor taste.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond


Nevertheless the troops have fought valiantly, and the price paid by many has been horrific. They all deserve better than the bad faith and shoddy treatment they are receiving from the highest officials of their government.
What are you doing for the troops, Bob?

Well George,

I'm telling the truth wherever I can. If Bush had done the same the troops wouldn't be there in the first place.

Anti-Bush is not anti-troops. Just the opposite.
Talk of truth is cheap, Bob.

How about that vote for that guy that did not want to fund Body Armor? I would rather talk about that. That was action, and it has teeth,,, I mean in light of the op, we really should go there, Bob.

You have no idea who I voted for.

So the body armor was funded but the troops don't have any. I wonder what happened to all that funding, Fred??? Did it go to Halliburton overcharges? Now, that's supporting the troops.

We all do what we can to help. I don't have to catalog my donations for you.
Its Ok, Bob.

I understand that the direction this thread is being pushed is a little overwhelming for you and that you have no solid ground to shore up the pathetic point that you tried to make with your op. Consider your ass owned on this one, Bob, because I do know who you voted for. :)

Catch you later, Bob. I got to go....

I don't remember you in the voting booth with me, Alonzo. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

Glad to see you have to go. Don't feel like you have to come back soon.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Originally posted by: Feep
hey steeplerot, i want to comment on that link you have in your profile. It is complete slanderous bullshit.

especially this photo

http://www.geocities.com/asheville4kerry/image014.jpg

the caption said "Nascar dad for bush"

As sick as that photo is, the guy has a freaking 3 on his Back not a B

That whole sight just sickens me. It is in very poor taste.

It's positively slanderous.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

I thought it was one of the funniest sites I've seen in months.

And d00d, the guy with the number 3 is an Earnhardt fan.

 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
These people choose to join, and thus they made a commitment to fight. They do not get to decided not to becasue they disagree with the politics behind the war.

Bullsh1t, Read the oath.
 

Feep

Senior member
Aug 30, 2004
224
0
0
maybe you could post this oath, im too lazy to look for it

everything I've ever heard would suggest that the military requires following orders and not necessarily a lot of independant thinking
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
0
0
Judging from your posts, your reticence to perform a simple web search is a symptom of an apparent overall condition.

 

Feep

Senior member
Aug 30, 2004
224
0
0
if Zebo wants to use this oath to prove that my point is bullshit, he can at least go through the trouble of linking to his supporting evidence.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Originally posted by: Feep
hey steeplerot, i want to comment on that link you have in your profile. It is complete slanderous bullshit.

especially this photo

http://www.geocities.com/asheville4kerry/image014.jpg

the caption said "Nascar dad for bush"

As sick as that photo is, the guy has a freaking 3 on his Back not a B

That whole sight just sickens me. It is in very poor taste.


Thanks dude it's hard work, I know that.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: Feep
maybe you could post this oath, im too lazy to look for it

everything I've ever heard would suggest that the military requires following orders and not necessarily a lot of independant thinking

This is the problems with Dub's supporters. They are too lazy to educate themselves. They are too lazy to think. They accept everything Dub says as gospel. According to Feep, I guess this means they make good cannon fodder, umm soldiers. It is funny how they send others to die but will not volunteer themselves.


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Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over their own eyes since 1980
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Ozoned
Originally posted by: BBond


Nevertheless the troops have fought valiantly, and the price paid by many has been horrific. They all deserve better than the bad faith and shoddy treatment they are receiving from the highest officials of their government.
What are you doing for the troops, Bob?



He voted for that guy that did not want fund body armor.... war on the cheap as they say. And has complained about every bit of spending in Iraq.

I do not know if you are lying or stupid. Either way, your slam against Kerry is BS. The Dub thanks you for dumbly accepting every one of his lies. No tyrant can rise without stupid sheep to support him.


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Bush Apologists of America (BAA): pulling the wool over America's eyes since 1980