War is just wrong

[maluckey]

Wow!

I didn't know that war was wrong! I was planning to invade Canada tomorrow. Me and three friends were all set to take over. I guess that's now just a pipe dream because now I know it's wrong.

I have never asked for someone to stop posting before, but RobCur, please go away.

 

[piasabird]

War is the ultimate form of freedom. Anarchy is as free as you can get. Dont like your neighbors castle so you go kill him and nock it down. Freedom does not necessarily promote peace. However, oppression, fear and hatred does promote violence. The Romans feared the Jews and the Chrisians, because they were willing to die for what they believed.

War is a concept it is not bad or good. People with violent intentions who commit acts of violence are the ones to fear. Many a ruler is quick to try to take countries by force because they seek advantage over their neighbouring countries. On the other hand if you idly sit by and let one country take over another country, the bully will probably repeat this learned behaviour over and over if no one opposes them. Look at Hitler and the harm he caused. No one opposed Hitler, so he kept going. It is up to the free countries of the world to insure peace and stability even if it means defending the helpless.

Dont really know if this Iraq war is such a good thing. It is very difficult to tell. No one likes to see people die unless there is something wrong with them. I do not know what is worse allowing people to be slaughtered because you dont want to be involved for your own selfish reasons or trying to stop genocide. Either way someone is going to die.

Is it better to let the killing continue in the Defar region or should we try to protect the helpless? Sadam killed people in the same way but we seem to have forgotten that point. I sometimes contemplate on whether it is worth it to just defend everyone. The USA may have fought an even longer war with Britian if the French did not help us out. The French may have chosen to fight for their own reasons, but they did help us.

War is not so cut and dry all the time; that is why it is so hard to judge if it is right or wrong.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: chrisms
War is natural. One group of people want things one way, the other wants it their way. When both fail to compromise, one will try to force the other into submission. There is really no avoiding it until the world is in complete agreement over everything, or until everybody has nukes and extremists become not-so-extreme.

There are already too many nukes in the world for war to be anything but a last resort and even then it wouldn't be very advisable. I'd rather be alive and subjecated then dead and free. Especially since the former is already true, LOL>

 

[imported_Reck]

There can be no peace ever. Whenever there is a time of peace, people will just stir up **** to cause more fighting. Humans feed off of the conflict for some reason. It's just a nasty part of human nature.

 

[1EZduzit]

The meek shall inherit the earth, that is if if there is anything left.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: RobCur
What are we fighting for? fame? fortune? brags right? or just to show off who is tougher? what's the point? The world have gone mad ever since humans have existed, even during prehistoric times they enjoy clubbing each other to death. I guess history does repeat itself until most are dead. The more people on earth, the more problems we have. That is just so sad but I think the world needs to be united so that we can all live in peace.

Yes, and we should all live happily ever after in a land of rainbows, fluffy bunnies, and lollipops, where nothing bad ever happens.

Tra la la...

 

[BeauJangles]

The only way most fighting will stop between humans is if we are confronted with a new threat, namely something that would unite us against it. Sadly, that isn't going to happen so every group of people (Americans, French, British, Chinese, etc) wants to secure their future and, often, they feel the only way to do this is to gain control of resources and strategic locations.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: RobCur
What are we fighting for? fame? fortune? brags right? or just to show off who is tougher? what's the point? The world have gone mad ever since humans have existed, even during prehistoric times they enjoy clubbing each other to death. I guess history does repeat itself until most are dead. The more people on earth, the more problems we have. That is just so sad but I think the world needs to be united so that we can all live in peace.

Yes, and we should all live happily ever after in a land of rainbows, fluffy bunnies, and lollipops, where nothing bad ever happens.

Tra la la...

too broke to try to fix it so who cares attitude.....no wonder people are so lost nowdays.
so in other words you think we are damned to be animals with no sense of growing up from our biological past?
Let me guess, and you voted for a chimp too?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: RobCur
What are we fighting for? fame? fortune? brags right? or just to show off who is tougher? what's the point? The world have gone mad ever since humans have existed, even during prehistoric times they enjoy clubbing each other to death. I guess history does repeat itself until most are dead. The more people on earth, the more problems we have. That is just so sad but I think the world needs to be united so that we can all live in peace.

Yes, and we should all live happily ever after in a land of rainbows, fluffy bunnies, and lollipops, where nothing bad ever happens.

Tra la la...

Let me guess, and you voted for a chimp too?

If by chimp you mean Bush, than probably 🙂

 

[arcenite]

I don't usually visit this part of town, but I noticed your title when I accidentally clicked on P&N instead of OT, Silly me. Anyway, War may be hell, but it is often times necessary. Take for example WWII. When the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, what was the US supposed to do? Sit there and be like "Ohhhhh Snap. Oh well, we can build more and hope they don't bomb us again.." Or, "Lets get those f!ckers before they think about doing this again...".

You will always have war on earth when you have competition over resources.

 

[nergee]

SIC VIS PACEM PARABELLUM..................

 

[dahunan]

Ghandi was a cold blooded killer and it worked ... right 😕

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: RobCur
What are we fighting for? fame? fortune? brags right? or just to show off who is tougher? what's the point? The world have gone mad ever since humans have existed, even during prehistoric times they enjoy clubbing each other to death. I guess history does repeat itself until most are dead. The more people on earth, the more problems we have. That is just so sad but I think the world needs to be united so that we can all live in peace.

The world needs to be FREE so we can all live in peace. War as such isn't wrong or right, it's a tool used to achieve certain ends. If those ends are good, the war is Just. If those ends are evil, the war is unjust.

You're trying to look for a unilateral answer to the whole War question; there isn't one.

Jason

I bet Charles Manson agrees.

What a completely unclever, pointless argument. I'd expect better from anyone other than Conjur.

Jason

It has a point, but it is completely over your head. To many people sitting in jail, murder is a tool. The Mafia has been killing others for generations, and it's often not personal. Yet they wind up in jail, because it's murder and murder is illegal, because it's inherently wrong.


War is inheretly evil. That it is sadly needed at times does not alter that fact. To you it's a tool. Well it's an act. A good horrific act is an oxymoron.




Too many people are entirely too casual about war.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: piasabird
War is the ultimate form of freedom. Anarchy is as free as you can get. Dont like your neighbors castle so you go kill him and nock it down. Freedom does not necessarily promote peace. However, oppression, fear and hatred does promote violence. The Romans feared the Jews and the Chrisians, because they were willing to die for what they believed.

War is a concept it is not bad or good. People with violent intentions who commit acts of violence are the ones to fear. Many a ruler is quick to try to take countries by force because they seek advantage over their neighbouring countries. On the other hand if you idly sit by and let one country take over another country, the bully will probably repeat this learned behaviour over and over if no one opposes them. Look at Hitler and the harm he caused. No one opposed Hitler, so he kept going. It is up to the free countries of the world to insure peace and stability even if it means defending the helpless.

Dont really know if this Iraq war is such a good thing. It is very difficult to tell. No one likes to see people die unless there is something wrong with them. I do not know what is worse allowing people to be slaughtered because you dont want to be involved for your own selfish reasons or trying to stop genocide. Either way someone is going to die.

Is it better to let the killing continue in the Defar region or should we try to protect the helpless? Sadam killed people in the same way but we seem to have forgotten that point. I sometimes contemplate on whether it is worth it to just defend everyone. The USA may have fought an even longer war with Britian if the French did not help us out. The French may have chosen to fight for their own reasons, but they did help us.

War is not so cut and dry all the time; that is why it is so hard to judge if it is right or wrong.

Anarchy is NOT the ultimate form of freedom. The ultimate form of freedom is one in which men live as men ought to live, which is to say, in a civilized fashion, with respect for one another's rights and with REASON as their primary guide.

I'm with you that war is sometimes the right thing to do, but let's not go overboard and say that anarchy is anything less than what it is: unchecked barbarism where anything goes.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
The meek shall inherit the earth, that is if if there is anything left.

And what exactly are the meek going to *do* with the earth? One might point out that the reason the meek don't have the earth now is *precisely* because they are MEEK.

THe meek don't need to "inherit the earth", they need to grow some friggin' balls and TAKE it if they want it!

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: RobCur
What are we fighting for? fame? fortune? brags right? or just to show off who is tougher? what's the point? The world have gone mad ever since humans have existed, even during prehistoric times they enjoy clubbing each other to death. I guess history does repeat itself until most are dead. The more people on earth, the more problems we have. That is just so sad but I think the world needs to be united so that we can all live in peace.

Yes, and we should all live happily ever after in a land of rainbows, fluffy bunnies, and lollipops, where nothing bad ever happens.

Tra la la...

Let me guess, and you voted for a chimp too?

If by chimp you mean Bush, than probably 🙂

Hey, I voted for the chimp, but not proudly. If the democrats hadn't put up the WORST possible of their 4 choices from the primaries, or if one of the independents would have been taken seriously by ANYONE, I would have changed in a heartbeat.

I'm *terribly* depressed about Bush, but it's a VERY safe bet that I would have been every bit as depressed about Kerry.

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: RobCur
What are we fighting for? fame? fortune? brags right? or just to show off who is tougher? what's the point? The world have gone mad ever since humans have existed, even during prehistoric times they enjoy clubbing each other to death. I guess history does repeat itself until most are dead. The more people on earth, the more problems we have. That is just so sad but I think the world needs to be united so that we can all live in peace.

The world needs to be FREE so we can all live in peace. War as such isn't wrong or right, it's a tool used to achieve certain ends. If those ends are good, the war is Just. If those ends are evil, the war is unjust.

You're trying to look for a unilateral answer to the whole War question; there isn't one.

Jason

I bet Charles Manson agrees.

What a completely unclever, pointless argument. I'd expect better from anyone other than Conjur.

Jason

It has a point, but it is completely over your head. To many people sitting in jail, murder is a tool. The Mafia has been killing others for generations, and it's often not personal. Yet they wind up in jail, because it's murder and murder is illegal, because it's inherently wrong.


War is inheretly evil. That it is sadly needed at times does not alter that fact. To you it's a tool. Well it's an act. A good horrific act is an oxymoron.




Too many people are entirely too casual about war.

Yes, too many are casual about war, about evil in general. No, War is NOT inherently evil. The *initiation* of force against otherwise non-aggressive parties is inherently evil, but the act of war most certainly is not. Yes, war is an act (or rather a series of acts) but it remains, nevertheless, a tool. It can be a tool to repel invaders--in which case it's RIGHT. It can be a tool to liberate oppressed people--in which case it's GOOD, RIGHT and MORAL.

It can also be a tool to DESTROY or OPPRESS others (witness the Nazi's or the Communists of the Soviet Union or modern day North Korea, all of which are examples of evil uses of war. In the case of the latter two, the war is used on a smaller scale--against their own people).

You keep looking for a one-size-fits-all answer to this War question. There isn't one to be had.

Jason

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: RobCur
What are we fighting for? fame? fortune? brags right? or just to show off who is tougher? what's the point? The world have gone mad ever since humans have existed, even during prehistoric times they enjoy clubbing each other to death. I guess history does repeat itself until most are dead. The more people on earth, the more problems we have. That is just so sad but I think the world needs to be united so that we can all live in peace.

Yes, and we should all live happily ever after in a land of rainbows, fluffy bunnies, and lollipops, where nothing bad ever happens.

Tra la la...

too broke to try to fix it so who cares attitude.....no wonder people are so lost nowdays.
so in other words you think we are damned to be animals with no sense of growing up from our biological past?
Let me guess, and you voted for a chimp too?

Actually, I voted for Kerry, not because I liked him, but because I do not believe Bush & team are competent to run the country.

"growing up from our biological past"? What are you talking about?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

"growing up from our biological past"? What are you talking about?

The base and violent nature of socialized animals, I am in a hurry but I have been thinking about this for awhile now.
The more a civilization decays for whatever reason the powers that be usually represent the base need for protection and seek a leader and protector of sorts. -You could say a dictator or big brother. It tends to rely on those so worried about their own well-being and survival that the finer aspects of life are lost and power in consolidated by ensuring the masses are "less then optimally" educated and informed....etc etc I have to run though.
It's all been said before I am sure.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex

Originally posted by: RobCur
What are we fighting for? fame? fortune? brags right? or just to show off who is tougher? what's the point? The world have gone mad ever since humans have existed, even during prehistoric times they enjoy clubbing each other to death. I guess history does repeat itself until most are dead. The more people on earth, the more problems we have. That is just so sad but I think the world needs to be united so that we can all live in peace.

The world needs to be FREE so we can all live in peace. War as such isn't wrong or right, it's a tool used to achieve certain ends. If those ends are good, the war is Just. If those ends are evil, the war is unjust.

You're trying to look for a unilateral answer to the whole War question; there isn't one.

Jason

I bet Charles Manson agrees.

What a completely unclever, pointless argument. I'd expect better from anyone other than Conjur.

Jason

It has a point, but it is completely over your head. To many people sitting in jail, murder is a tool. The Mafia has been killing others for generations, and it's often not personal. Yet they wind up in jail, because it's murder and murder is illegal, because it's inherently wrong.


War is inheretly evil. That it is sadly needed at times does not alter that fact. To you it's a tool. Well it's an act. A good horrific act is an oxymoron.




Too many people are entirely too casual about war.

Yes, too many are casual about war, about evil in general. No, War is NOT inherently evil. The *initiation* of force against otherwise non-aggressive parties is inherently evil, but the act of war most certainly is not. Yes, war is an act (or rather a series of acts) but it remains, nevertheless, a tool. It can be a tool to repel invaders--in which case it's RIGHT. It can be a tool to liberate oppressed people--in which case it's GOOD, RIGHT and MORAL.

It can also be a tool to DESTROY or OPPRESS others (witness the Nazi's or the Communists of the Soviet Union or modern day North Korea, all of which are examples of evil uses of war. In the case of the latter two, the war is used on a smaller scale--against their own people).

You keep looking for a one-size-fits-all answer to this War question. There isn't one to be had.

Jason

Now I am the leader of a country (not the US). I think it is good, right and moral that my country take over my neighbor. It would be of mutual benefit. I think they would be better off with my form of government, under my clearly superior leadership, and once they have been brought into the fold, then they will be much better off. My people have a far better standard of living, better education. I am not a cruel leader. My people are happy, theirs miserable.

In the long run they will be better off. Diplomacy won't work, and I have war as a tool. Nothing wrong with freeing them from their substandard conditions. War is my Moral Imperative. That people die is a shame, but they will thank me later.

 

[Steeplerot]

A big part of that equation though Winston is their culture and the past with your country.
If the imaginary person before you was a dick to this other country it might not be so easy to assimilate them into the fold.
This is why a good part of the genocides happen. Some peoples just refuse to mix/get along when forced to be together.
Time is the cure for this in most cases though time is not always an option in the present.
All in all you sound like a good leader though and that sounds like a step in the right direction being neighbors and all.
But putting this scenerio to someplace far away like Iraq would be foolhearty.

(a disclaimer for the people who pick apart my posts I am not condoning genocide only making an observation based on history.)

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

"growing up from our biological past"? What are you talking about?

The base and violent nature of socialized animals, I am in a hurry but I have been thinking about this for awhile now.
The more a civilization decays for whatever reason the powers that be usually represent the base need for protection and seek a leader and protector of sorts. -You could say a dictator or big brother. It tends to rely on those so worried about their own well-being and survival that the finer aspects of life are lost and power in consolidated by ensuring the masses are "less then optimally" educated and informed....etc etc I have to run though.
It's all been said before I am sure.

So what do concepts like "dictator", "big brother", and "ensuring the masses are "less then optimally" educated and informed" have to do with biology?

 

[piasabird]

The meek shall inherit the earth, that is if if there is anything left.

What is the definition of Meek?

Meek does not mean weak or humble.

From a Bible Dictionary:
http://christianity.about.com/library/weekly/blT0002400.htm

Meekness - a calm temper of mind, not easily provoked (James 3:13). Peculiar promises are made to the meek (Matt. 5:5; Isa. 66:2). The cultivation of this spirit is enjoined (Col. 3:12; 1 Tim. 6:11; Zeph. 2:3), and is exemplified in Christ (Matt. 11:29), Abraham (Gen. 13; 16:5, 6) Moses (Num. 12:3), David (Zech. 12:8; 2 Sam. 16:10, 12), and Paul (1 Cor. 9:19).

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

"growing up from our biological past"? What are you talking about?

The base and violent nature of socialized animals, I am in a hurry but I have been thinking about this for awhile now.
The more a civilization decays for whatever reason the powers that be usually represent the base need for protection and seek a leader and protector of sorts. -You could say a dictator or big brother. It tends to rely on those so worried about their own well-being and survival that the finer aspects of life are lost and power in consolidated by ensuring the masses are "less then optimally" educated and informed....etc etc I have to run though.
It's all been said before I am sure.

So what do concepts like "dictator", "big brother", and "ensuring the masses are "less then optimally" educated and informed" have to do with biology?

That at the most base and carnal part of our brains we are still animals and can revert back to varying degrees of our biological past. -Survival instinct
I could explain it over a beer better I don't want to get all philisophical in a forum like this. But if you want to discuss it further sometime when I am not super busy I would be happy to.

 

[Infohawk]

I think it's funny how some people seem more outraged by a statement like this than something like, "kill all the arabs."

Anyway, I wonder what Jesus' position on this was? 😉