War crimes in Iraq

[Siwy]

A former United States marine told a refugee hearing for an American war dodger Tuesday that trigger-happy U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children, and murdered other Iraqis in violation of international law.

Source

:Q

 

[conjur]

And the difference in the handling of this and Vietnam is what again?

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Siwy

A former United States marine told a refugee hearing for an American war dodger Tuesday that trigger-happy U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children, and murdered other Iraqis in violation of international law.

Source

:Q

Come and see the editors cut; now remixed, remastered, and available in Dolby 5.1 and DTS of John Kerry Redux

 

[Genx87]

On several occasions, his soldiers pumped hundreds of bullets into cars that failed to stop at U.S. military checkpoints, killing all occupants - who were later found to be unarmed, Massey said.


On another occasion, marines reacted to a stray bullet by killing a small group of unarmed protesters and bystanders, said Massey, who said he suffers from nightmares and post-traumatic stress disorder.



Looks like hard evidence the US marines are just lining civilians up and opening fire to me! :disgust:

 

[Grunt03]

Yes indeed, what is the source?
You said he said does not cut it.

 

[Kibbo]

Why do these revelations surprise anybody? This is why near-pacifists like myself oppose war, unless the justifcation is overwhelming.

Soldiers are boys who are transformed into killers. We then unleash these people on civilian populations, and expect them to behave like gentlemen.

I support "the troops" on a knee-jerk level, because I feel compassion for those who sacrifice a part of their humanity on our behalf. It is neccessary to have men who are able to behave like animals in order to prevent a situation where we all must decend to that level. I admire those who volunteer to make that sacrifice.

This is why war is the most terrible decision to make, and why the only justification must be "kill or be killed."

War is a crime committed on the civilians who are the inevitable victims, the soldiers who die, and (in my view the most terrible of all) the soldiers who are turned into something that horrifies themselves.

As such, it should only be committed under extreme forms of duress.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: Genx87
On several occasions, his soldiers pumped hundreds of bullets into cars that failed to stop at U.S. military checkpoints, killing all occupants - who were later found to be unarmed, Massey said.


On another occasion, marines reacted to a stray bullet by killing a small group of unarmed protesters and bystanders, said Massey, who said he suffers from nightmares and post-traumatic stress disorder.



Looks like hard evidence the US marines are just lining civilians up and opening fire to me! :disgust:

While I have doubts about the source myself, I have to wonder what sad excuse of a marine opens fire on random targets due to a stray bullet. Haven't they heard of taking cover and ascertaining the location that bullet came from?

They may not be "lining civilians up and opening fire" but if this is true(Yes, I said IF), they sure seem to lack any level of selfcontrol. My first reaction when guns go of in my immediate vicinity, is to take cover and figure out where the sound or bullet came from. If someone with limited combat experience like me can control himself, yet a marine can't, then I seriously have to doubt the marines competence and the competence of those who sent him there.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: JackStorm
While I have doubts about the source myself, I have to wonder what sad excuse of a marine opens fire on random targets due to a stray bullet. Haven't they heard of taking cover and ascertaining the location that bullet came from?

They may not be "lining civilians up and opening fire" but if this is true (yes, I said IF), they sure seem to lack any level of self control. My first reaction when guns go of in my immediate vicinity, is to take cover and figure out where the sound or bullet came from. If someone with limited combat experience like me can control himself, yet a marine can't, then I seriously have to doubt the marines competence and the competence of those who sent him there.

Considering the marine is in a war zone and you are not, it's a slightly different ballgame.

Stray bullet passes by you = Duck and cover. Investigate and call authorities. Good probability hostile gunfire ends then and there.

Stray bullet passes by Marine in Iraq = Duck and cover. You are the authorities. Good probability that hostile gunfire has just begun. Not to mention who knows how much of exactly this situation he's already gone through.

Aside from this (so far) made-up nonsense about homicidal troops, this case is interesting. Hinzman isn't green; he served in Afghanistan before his unit was selected to go to Iraq. His asylum case has no chance in hell however - claiming persecution if he returned to the United States? Fact is he is a deserter and should face the repurcussions of that act, but the U.S. is hardly going to throw him into a dark cell to never emerge from again.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: Kibbo
Why do these revelations surprise anybody? This is why near-pacifists like myself oppose war, unless the justifcation is overwhelming.

Soldiers are boys who are transformed into killers. We then unleash these people on civilian populations, and expect them to behave like gentlemen.

I support "the troops" on a knee-jerk level, because I feel compassion for those who sacrifice a part of their humanity on our behalf. It is neccessary to have men who are able to behave like animals in order to prevent a situation where we all must decend to that level. I admire those who volunteer to make that sacrifice.

This is why war is the most terrible decision to make, and why the only justification must be "kill or be killed."

War is a crime committed on the civilians who are the inevitable victims, the soldiers who die, and (in my view the most terrible of all) the soldiers who are turned into something that horrifies themselves.

As such, it should only be committed under extreme forms of duress.

Right. Boys who grew up playing first-person-shooter games wherein violence has no consequences.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Kibbo
Why do these revelations surprise anybody? This is why near-pacifists like myself oppose war, unless the justifcation is overwhelming.

Soldiers are boys who are transformed into killers. We then unleash these people on civilian populations, and expect them to behave like gentlemen.

I support "the troops" on a knee-jerk level, because I feel compassion for those who sacrifice a part of their humanity on our behalf. It is neccessary to have men who are able to behave like animals in order to prevent a situation where we all must decend to that level. I admire those who volunteer to make that sacrifice.

This is why war is the most terrible decision to make, and why the only justification must be "kill or be killed."

War is a crime committed on the civilians who are the inevitable victims, the soldiers who die, and (in my view the most terrible of all) the soldiers who are turned into something that horrifies themselves.

As such, it should only be committed under extreme forms of duress.

Right. Boys who grew up playing first-person-shooter games wherein violence has no consequences.

I don't know how that refutes his point :roll:

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: daveshel

Originally posted by: Kibbo
Why do these revelations surprise anybody? This is why near-pacifists like myself oppose war, unless the justifcation is overwhelming.

Soldiers are boys who are transformed into killers. We then unleash these people on civilian populations, and expect them to behave like gentlemen.

I support "the troops" on a knee-jerk level, because I feel compassion for those who sacrifice a part of their humanity on our behalf. It is neccessary to have men who are able to behave like animals in order to prevent a situation where we all must decend to that level. I admire those who volunteer to make that sacrifice.

This is why war is the most terrible decision to make, and why the only justification must be "kill or be killed."

War is a crime committed on the civilians who are the inevitable victims, the soldiers who die, and (in my view the most terrible of all) the soldiers who are turned into something that horrifies themselves.

As such, it should only be committed under extreme forms of duress.

Right. Boys who grew up playing first-person-shooter games wherein violence has no consequences.

I don't know how that refutes his point :roll:

I am agreeing with Kibbo, not refuting anything.

 

[tnitsuj]

None of the things described are war crimes. Ultimately unhelpfull but not crimes.

 

[KidViciou$]

oh that marine is just kidding, he didn't do anything wrong


seriously though, i don't see anything wrong with shooting people in cars if they don't stop at checkpoints. i only say this for those who barrel through checkpoints, i think that if people creep through the checkpoint, shoot their tires and if they don't stop still, then shoot them


then i have an argument for non-violence which isn't relevant here

 

[tnitsuj]

You may want to edit your title. AS of yet you have presented no evidence of war crimes.

 

[KidViciou$]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
You may want to edit your title. AS of yet you have presented no evidence of war crimes.

did u read the article???

- A former United States marine told a refugee hearing for an American war dodger Tuesday that trigger-happy U.S. soldiers in Iraq routinely killed unarmed woman and children, and murdered other Iraqis in violation of international law.

 

[Siwy]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
You may want to edit your title. AS of yet you have presented no evidence of war crimes.

An occupying force shooting at civilians is a war crime.

Failing to remove wounded from the battle area, like it happened in Felluja, is a war crime.

Terrifying civilian population is a war crime. Bombing civilian population is a war crime; Oct. 8 bombing of a wedding party for example.

Using loud music, painful restraints, and a semi-drowning technique called "water boarding," to "soften up" prisoners for interrogation is a war crime.

Is that enough for you? 😉

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: yllus
Considering the marine is in a war zone and you are not, it's a slightly different ballgame.

I was refering to when I was in a warzone, not now....Maybe you didn't quite grasp that. But whatever...

Stray bullet passes by you = Duck and cover. Investigate and call authorities. Good probability hostile gunfire ends then and there.

Irrelivant to thread. Read above.

Stray bullet passes by Marine in Iraq = Duck and cover. You are the authorities. Good probability that hostile gunfire has just begun.

Well thanks for pointing out the obvious...But again, MY reaction in a war zone (However short it was) was to figure out where it came from, not shot random targets.

Not to mention who knows how much of exactly this situation he's already gone through.

You know, personally I wish the armed forces around the world monitored the soldiers mental health a little better, because, in my opinion (You might disagree with it however), when soldiers start to get trigger happy like that, it's time to take a little break and evaluate them or ship them home. But of course, that almost ever happens. The top brass rarely gives a fuvk about us small frys. And will keep us there untill we get seriously wounded, killed or have a total mental breakdown.

Aside from this (so far) made-up nonsense about homicidal troops, this case is interesting.

Yeah, something feels off about this story. But I'm not willing to write it off yet.

Hinzman isn't green; he served in Afghanistan before his unit was selected to go to Iraq.

Makes you wonder what kind of BS some of these guys go through in Iraq.

His asylum case has no chance in hell however - claiming persecution if he returned to the United States? Fact is he is a deserter and should face the repurcussions of that act, but the U.S. is hardly going to throw him into a dark cell to never emerge from again.

He's pretty much screwed himself over, yeah.

P.S: Sorry if I seemed a bit cranky. I'm just getting tired of people making assumptions about me and not paying attention to my posts when they reply...