Wanting more ram is it worth it?

[SelenaGomez]

I currently have IVY bridge 3570k @ 4200mhz and 2X4 gb 1600 mhz 8-8-8-24.

Is it worth it to upgrade to 2x8 gb 2133 mhz 11-13-13-31 ? I dont do any photoediting really. Just use my computer for whatever and I do play games. This is the only thing i can upgrade without changing the entire thing really since I already have an 830 series samsung SSD and the rest is the z77 chipset

 

[nerp]

You won't see a huge difference unless you need more than 8GB of ram. Run Task Manager and watch your memory usage for a few days with normal usage.

Faster memory is typically hard to notice.

I have 16GB in my system mainly because RAM is so cheap. To me, the extra capacity is nice. The extra speed is not the factor.

Wait.... you're thinking of swapping DDR3 for DDR4? You can't do that unless your motherboard has DDR4 slots.

 

[bonehead123]

For the average user doing average everyday tasks, 8GB is moderately sufficient. Most gaming performance is generally dictated by the strength, or weakness, of your GPU.

However, if you are the multitasking type and tend to have multiple apps and/or lots of browser tabs running at the same time, then you could possibly hit a wall on available ram.

Some of this will depend on your OS too, as Windows 10 generally is better at managing system resources than earlier versions did.

An easy way to find out for sure if you need more ram is to open Task Manager, click on the memory tab, and look at the amount of memory that is being used at any given time. Obviously if you are at or close to using 100%, then yes you could benefit by adding more ram.

 

[Ranulf]

Some games are pushing the 8gb limit lately. Might check to see if any you play are wanting more. Decent investment if you're keeping the system another couple of years since ram is so cheap these days.

 

[plopke]

1) Upgrading your PC in the near future? Then do not bother buying DDR3
Buying DDR4 : I would say 16GB of DDR4 2666-3000 is the new standard because
-like other people said , it is cheap
-8gb can be filled if you do some other stuff next to your games at the same time.

Even 32GB kits can be bought for quiet cheap but 2400-2666Mhz is the best price range there. Sometimes you can get 2666 32GB kits for around 120 dollars or less, that are just great steals.

2) Planning on keeping your PC for the upcoming years , you should consider a 16GB kit of DDR3 , at some point DDR3 will get legacy status and from that moment on it will start to increase in price again to slowly dissapear from the market , but that might be still a while.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Generally, I agree with the other respondents.

RAM is cheap now, and has been for DDR3 kits over the last few years.

I'll explain my own upgrade to 16GB, which I might easily have abjured. My system was doing double-duty for HTPC purposes -- never sleeping, never hibernating, and feeding the AVR/HDTV 24/7. After a few days, with this or that TV program recorded by Media Center, I'd notice memory usage continuing to climb. This may have been a memory "leak" due to WMC, but I didn't like seeing 8GB memory utilization hitting 80%.

I also didn't feel as comfortable about OC'ing a DDR3-1600 kit to 1866 10-10-10-30 as I did for simply buying a DDR3-1866 9-9-9-24 kit. I talked myself into a RipJaws Z 2x8GB kit.

Then I discovered I didn't like RAID configurations anymore, and I discovered first ISRT, then RAPID and finally PrimoCAche. Primo does in various combinations what ISRT only does in SSD-caching and RAPID does only in RAM-caching an SSD.

And that's how I learned to love 16GB or even 20GB, even if filling four slots makes it impossible to run RAM at command-rate 1. The only caution: One had best be damn sure that the RAM is defect-free, configured properly, thoroughly tested. After that, there's a movie line from a modern crime drama about a psychopathic killer with a gun strapped to his hip like "Have Gun, Will Travel:" "Are you fast?" he asks the unsuspecting beat cop. "I'm fast."

Fast enough not to even think of "Command-rate = 1" anymore.

 

[UsandThem]

There are only a couple games right now where more than 8 GB really makes a difference or is the minimum requirement. The game Quantum Break recommends 16 GB. However, unless you are editing videos or using Photoshop, most of your normal tasks will not benefit from it.

However, if you plan on keeping your system for a few more years, DDR3 prices are low and you could pick up another 8 GB for cheap, and not worry about it.

 

[MajinCry]

Vanilla Fallout 4 requires around 7.5GB of RAM, not including the ~3.5GB of RAM that Windows 7 uses when idle. If that game tickles yer fancy, ya gonna want lots of RAM.

Some games also do well with having their archives on a RAMDisk. Fallout New Vegas and Skyrim are much smoother (cell loading stutter especially) when you put the Data folder into RAM and use a junction to point the game to it.

But it's kinda fringe-case. Unless you're playing open world games or doing content production (Studio One, World Machine, 3DS Max, etc), you'll get by with 8GB.

 

[SelenaGomez]

I look at my task manager alot and it usually never goes above 50%. However i still feel like it lags. I usually have numerous windows open for prolonged periods as well. I dont want to upgrade my entire rig since my 3570k runs cleanly for years now at 4.2 ghz and never had any issues so i see no point in going to an i6600k

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I look at my task manager alot and it usually never goes above 50%. However i still feel like it lags. I usually have numerous windows open for prolonged periods as well. I dont want to upgrade my entire rig since my 3570k runs cleanly for years now at 4.2 ghz and never had any issues so i see no point in going to an i6600k

Can't say, Selena . . . It depends on what you think is chump-change, how many carry-out dinners you can abjure for making your own.

I could recommend something-- others can recommend something else. I'd acquired a 4x4GB kit of Corsair XMS DDR3-1600's "used" for chump-change, and plan to use 'em for a server I'm building. But for just about any desktop board requiring DDR3 with an Intel chipset . . Z68, Z77, Z97 . . I'd personally just buy G.SKILL without making further comparisons except for timings and speed.

If you have a sense of "lagging," it could come from bottlenecks lower in the pyramid. You say you're using a Sammy 830 SSD. I don't know for sure if Magician works with the older model. If it's a relatively small size -- 120, 240GB -- you can change up to a 480GB like an ADATA for ~$110. Maybe -- run CrystalDiskMark against the 830 to see how many TB in writes that have occurred, or find a utility that will execute TRIM for the whole drive.

It could also just be "your imagination," and this is so far all my own "speculation."

Here's a set of RipJaws Z 1866 9-9-9-24 for abut $90:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...KILL_DDR3-1866_RipJaws-_-20-231-625-_-Product

You should be able to run those at spec 1.5V with CR=1 instead of 2.

Here's another set I also use in a different Z68 system:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...KILL_DDR3-1866_RipJaws-_-20-231-615-_-Product

And they also can run with command-rate = 1. And that's about $26 less.

Looking just at the G.SKILL offerings, if you're running a 2x4GB kit, it's liable to cost you as little as $30 to $45 to buy the same of what you have -- maybe less than that -- and populate all 4 slots.

If there's nothing wrong or no maintenance needed for your SSD, you could try this for a 60-day trial period, lifetime license about $30:

https://www.romexsoftware.com/en-us/primo-cache/

And you might then definitely want 16GB.

But to head my critics off at the pass, we eventually get to a point where we're throwing regular bits of chump-change into aging technology. In your case, I think you have a few years left -- maybe more -- on that Ivy Bridge. I'm still rocking Sandy! Maybe I'm just getting old, but I don't feel any lags. On one system, I've beefed up the second memory link posted above from 16 to 20GB, replaced a Sammy 250GB 840 EVO with the ADATA I mentioned. That additional hardware cost me about $140.

There's a lot you can still do with a 3570K, and you could probably squeeze at least another 200 Mhz from it in clockspeed. Which Z77 board do you have?

 

[Dasa2]

I look at my task manager alot and it usually never goes above 50%. However i still feel like it lags.

when does it lag? only when you have a bunch of browser tabs open?
a reinstall of windows may be the easiest way to sort it out for you if there is a problem

 

[BonzaiDuck]

when does it lag? only when you have a bunch of browser tabs open?
a reinstall of windows may be the easiest way to sort it out for you if there is a problem

Good point.

Here's what happened to me this morning with my favorite rig. It's been running without error for most of its 18 month life, OC'd to 4.7. I've got dual-boot Win7/Win10. Everything tweaked to perfection.

Lately I'd noticed IE would freeze with 10 or 12 tabs open after sitting for awhile, or even going to sleep and then waking up -- not exclusive to either situation. Keep in mind I just installed a 4x4GB kit on top of the 2x8GB kit -- same model and specs. I tested the system (20GB RAM) through 400% HCI Memtest-64.

So this morning, I had a game "on hold" in a menu running in background, a dozen or more web-pages open, and the damn thing blue-screened with op-code 124. You'll say "hardware," but this happens with old drivers as well. And since it occurred with more than a dozen web-page tabs open and sitting there for several hours, knowing I'd updated the NVidia driver in recent weeks, I took a look at the Intel Pro-Set NIC driver. The driver is 6 years old! I replaced the driver, and opened a dozen web pages.

Suddenly, there's no hesitation, no freezing, no problem in IE. I can only wait and see.

 

[tweakboy]

Only time someone needs more then 8GB is if their s specialist , A heavy video editing and audio rendering. I was working on a project and at peak was using 29GB RAM usage. I am future proof plus audio engineer.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

And . . . by the way . . . I'm not sure if DDR3-2133 is worth it. I know it's overkill for a Sandy. Not sure about the IB-K. That's why I suggested 1866.

As much as people fret about it, I don't think you notice much beyond slight benchmark improvements with faster RAM on these older chipsets.

But even 2133Mhz is fairly cheap. Yeah . . . just checking . . . it's priced about the same. Many of the 2x8 kits need to run at 1.6V. Personally, I'd stick with 1866 @ 1.5V. Unless something changed between Z68 and Z77, you'd need to bump up VCCIO to about 1.1V if an "Auto" setting doesn't handle it.

 

[Dasa2]

2133 isnt really overkill for sandy it can provide a nice little boost in some things
but 2133mhz 11-13-13-31 is actually a little slower than his current 1600 8-8-8 ram
2133 9-11-11 or for ivy 2400 10-12-12 could get him another ~100-200mhz worth of cpu performance in games
2400 11-13-13 is fairly cheap and performs between 1600 8-8-8 and 2133 9-11-11
it wont help gpu limited games
nor will it help cpu intensive programs that dont overflow the cpu cache
1.65v ram is fine for anyone that is happy to oc the chances of damage are extremely low

 

[BonzaiDuck]

My own story about this -- about adding RAM to a tuned overclock.

1) Intel XTU doesn't stress the processor and memory enough to find a need to adjust the settings.
2) Neither does Aida 64.
3) Filling the remaining slots or for all four, not likely to run RAM at CR=1.
4) At previously-stable high overclocks, may need to adjust VCORE or VCCIO, or drop multiplier by a notch. Your choice.

So .. . . "Stop Code 124" likely resolved. I don't let my VCORE exceed 1.38V -- after the droop rebounds, or what I call "turbo-idle." I could afford to give these systems another 2/100ths of a volt. One -- in the sig -- has been running for 5 years, almost 24/7/365. The other one wakes and sleeps a few times daily -- by itself and by me.

So I say -- just expect something like this if you add RAM. Ideally, to me -- the best workstation build would use only half the memory slots, or for dual-channel two of four. Find the most reliable RAM you can, with the tightest timings and the speed that matches your processor's potential.

Once in a while, you can get lucky and find a RAM kit like the DDR3 RipJaws 1600Mhz "GBRL" or the last four characters in the G.SKILL model codes. You could clock those to 1866 Mhz, all four slots filled with 4GB sticks, and you could set the command rate to 1, loosen the timings by one integer value or about 4 for tRAS. You had to increase the VCCIO.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

2133 isnt really overkill for sandy it can provide a nice little boost in some things
but 2133mhz 11-13-13-31 is actually a little slower than his current 1600 8-8-8 ram
2133 9-11-11 or for ivy 2400 10-12-12 could get him another ~100-200mhz worth of cpu performance in games
2400 11-13-13 is fairly cheap and performs between 1600 8-8-8 and 2133 9-11-11
it wont help gpu limited games
nor will it help cpu intensive programs that dont overflow the cpu cache
1.65v ram is fine for anyone that is happy to oc the chances of damage are extremely low

Again, although we have an IB i5-3570K here, I haven't tweaked it, so I wouldn't know for sure. But with the i7-2x00K CPUs, you had to keep the VCCIO within 0.5V of the vDIMM. So if you ran the RAM at 1.65, you would be compelled to run VCCIO at minimum of 1.15V. The recommended spec upper limit is 1.2V.

Some folks I've met here made a point of buying RAM that would run at spec closer to 1.35V. Others spoke of never running their RAM above its 1.5V spec, and then there's the Intel recommended limit of ~1.58V. Apparently, running above that limit doesn't do any harm, or we might have seen folks reporting it, but then again -- I haven't searched forums for indications.

Of course, this is for the older chipsets and DDR3. Those are the figures I know for that generation of memory.

 

[Sheep221]

cheaper to install additional 2x4 to 16GB if you are not sure how much you need, you will be fine with 16 gigs

 

[BonzaiDuck]

cheaper to install additional 2x4 to 16GB if you are not sure how much you need, you will be fine with 16 gigs

I might have got by fine with the 2x8 kit this time around, and can always pull the 2x2 kit out and reset everything to what it was.

But that's what I did with the first of these systems I built. I bought a second, matching 2x4 kit -- the "gerbils." didn't need to buy the Z's, no harm done, but to the wallet for $160. The gerbils went into another system.

I was thinking to write an article for American Psychiatric Review about "hardware addiction." Just kidding. About the article, anyway.

 

[SelenaGomez]

cheaper to install additional 2x4 to 16GB if you are not sure how much you need, you will be fine with 16 gigs

Yes its about $30 cheaper to do that. But I wanted to avoid having to tweak my bios and settings to use quad channel and also avoind any issues with the ram not being identical even though they are the same product number settings and timings etc etc.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yes its about $30 cheaper to do that. But I wanted to avoid having to tweak my bios and settings to use quad channel and also avoind any issues with the ram not being identical even though they are the same product number settings and timings etc etc.

Well, on that tweaking angle, I got two stop-code 124 screens in the initial testing with OCCT/CPU. I took a walk on the wild side and did not delete the caching regime for my two main storage devices -- SSD and HDD. I ran CHKDSK against both after each Event ID 41, and despite the deferred writes setting, not a single bit raised any corrections.

I twisted up the Extra-Voltage-Turbo by 12mV, and ran affinitized LinX "Align 4" and maximum problem size, maximum memory, 25 iterations with the caching consuming about 5GB of RAM. The AVG GFLOPS were about 130, and the range from lowest to highest was 1.4 GFLOPS. That's 0.7 GFLOPS to either side of the mean.

As for the registered voltages under that particular stress test and setting, it looked to be about the same as it had been at 4.7Ghz before I added the RAM. The droop took it to about 1.368V, and the "turbo-idle" was about 1.384V.

I'm not even sure if I want to twist it up another 4 mV. The temperatures were the same, or an average maximum of 76C, with variation peaking absolutely at 78C.

It really wasn't a big problem, SelenaGomez. You never told us what make, model and spec 2x4GB RAM kit you were using. I already said that you won't be as likely to run CR=1, but it will not make much of a difference, or maybe 5 ns in a benchmark. But you can pair your kit with either the same or similar kit from the same manufacturer -- whatever size you choose -- if the SPD data of both overlap at certain speeds, or seem to extrapolate to an overlap.

If you find a kit similar in product code and other respects which has tighter timings at the same spec voltage (maybe . . CAS 8 instead of 9), set the timings in BIOS to the slower memory's spec. They should run at spec voltage, and you might want to increase VCCIO/VTT for the IMC by about 3 notches, because it doesn't make a difference to the IMC's health and might likely still be a setting below 1.100V. I think my own rides above reported at "auto": by 60 mV.

That should alleviate any possible shortcomings, and circumvent some testing.

Right now, on my 2700K, I would probably need to increase the turbo-voltage to just over 1.40V to get 4.8Ghz. But running this at 4.7 -- with the 4GB extra RAM, the two-tiered caching for the HDD and RAM-caching for the SSD boot-drive, it's still better than it ever was, and it was always great. Of course, different strokes, different folks and so on. . . .

 

[Sheep221]

Yes its about $30 cheaper to do that. But I wanted to avoid having to tweak my bios and settings to use quad channel and also avoind any issues with the ram not being identical even though they are the same product number settings and timings etc etc.

You won't go quad channel, for that you would have to have LGA2011 mobo with 8 ram slots, even when you have 4 slots populated you are still running dual channel.You now have 2x4GB it would be a mistake to replace those with 2x8, or add 2x8 to 2x4 combo as you might not need it at higher cost of 8 gig sticks, going for another 2x4 is your best option. If you would opt for over 16 gig of RAM I assume you would utilize it by running heavy multithreaded production/design software or more virtual machines simultaneously which require faster CPU and maybe also a better video card, not sure which one do you have. There are no games at the moment that require more than 16 gigs of RAM, but once they do appear, your CPU and video card will be slow for those too. So what I might suggest is to just go with 16GB max for your system because I don't think you are able to utilize much more with it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You won't go quad channel, for that you would have to have LGA2011 mobo with 8 ram slots, even when you have 4 slots populated you are still running dual channel.You now have 2x4GB it would be a mistake to replace those with 2x8, or add 2x8 to 2x4 combo as you might not need it at higher cost of 8 gig sticks, going for another 2x4 is your best option. If you would opt for over 16 gig of RAM I assume you would utilize it by running heavy multithreaded production/design software or more virtual machines simultaneously which require faster CPU and maybe also a better video card, not sure which one do you have. There are no games at the moment that require more than 16 gigs of RAM, but once they do appear, your CPU and video card will be slow for those too. So what I might suggest is to just go with 16GB max for your system because I don't think you are able to utilize much more with it.

Yup. :thumbsup:

I'm still interested in what she has, or maybe I missed something. Even within the same make and model, there are variations in the SPD data for later production refinements. But she should be able to find a 2x4 kit that matches or can be made to match.

 

[SelenaGomez]

I currently have 2x4 gb G.Skill Ripjaws ddr3 1600mhz 8-8-8-24 The product code is F3- 12800CL8-4GBXM

I do not want to tweak anything. I just want to plug them in and that's it. Tha tis why I wanted to opt for replacing hem with 2x8gb instead.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I currently have 2x4 gb G.Skill Ripjaws ddr3 1600mhz 8-8-8-24 The product code is F3- 12800CL8-4GBXM

I do not want to tweak anything. I just want to plug them in and that's it. Tha tis why I wanted to opt for replacing hem with 2x8gb instead.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231445

$46, maybe a dollar shipping, and probably < $4.00 tax or maybe 0.

Really, it dawns on me and I have to tell you -- at your overclock settings, you should really be able to do just exactly that -- plug them in and go.

That's just a 400 Mhz OC. Should I bet money? I'm quite sure you'd just plug them in. If I ran them with a 600 Mhz OC to my 2700K, I, too, would only need to "plug them in" -- set it and fah-get it.

I seem to have overcomplicated the discussion, because of my little tweak episode yesterday . . . . At my clock-speeds, the tweaks are a lot more likely.

In your case as well as my own, you should still test them thoroughly. You could pull the old ones out temporarily, but my approach was to test the whole enchilada together, even if it takes longer.

And I'd still enter BIOS just to check your memory profile, speed and default timings. That's what I'd do myself, and I've seen folks posting customer reviews because they didn't realize that their boards would clock them at 1333 by default and needed to be set. REally, I just think plugging them in if the current RAM is set up to its spec will just follow that spec. You likely won't have to do anything. Another thing I'd bet on to make me some money. . . .