Wanted: Julian Assange

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PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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I wonder if he was pushing for prosecution of Blackwater and it's mercs for all the problems they caused in Iraq. I'm guessing no.

Thanks for joining shira in trying to take this thread off topic!

It would be interesting to have a separate thread as to whether the extensive use of contract security forces in war is net positive or net negative. Blackwater certainly was very effective in delivering the services they were contracted to. And those individuals who acted as criminals were identified, penalized, prosecuted and punished as allowed by the prevailing contracts and laws.
But I am sure you wish that things had gone differently, just so you would have a stronger political statement to make.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
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www.neftastic.com
Interesting; every government and corporation has lead to murder, torture, kidnapping and rape or will.

I didn't know anyone was arguing for the prosecution of governments and corporations for pre-crimes.

Can you please offer some support for your argument that over a reasonable time line all corporations will have raped, murdered, tortured and kidnapped?

Except in the most radically mindless discourse can we find someone espousing the level stupidity coming out of your... well I'll argue finger tips.

I would like to note that I don't think you are trolling; In-fact I think you are simply stupid beyond comprehension and incapable of defending event the slightest aspect of your hyperbolic point of view.

Corporations sponsor exploitation of entire 3rd world nations on a regular basis. Guilt by implication, just like with wikileaks. Is it that hard to see?

For the record, everyone posting in P&N is a troll, no matter how good their intention is. Me included.
 
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shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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Richard Armitage admitted to revealing her as an employee of the CIA (when she was no longer in a covert role and, if I recall, herself otherwise letting people know who she worked for.)

What happened to him and why was he not prosecuted?
Did I somehow miss your answer to my question in this response of yours?
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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Thanks for joining shira in trying to take this thread off topic!

In case you hadn't noticed, I'm the guy who continually calls hacks (or in your case, trolls) on their utter lack of principle. I don't believe a word you write because you don't believe a word you write, either; your opinions are based on nothing more than your emotional response to the situation at hand, as modified by reflex ideology.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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You're immoral scum and worse than most terrorists.

He really isn't, a terrorist would kill anyone at any time for no reason what so ever, Julian knows what he's doing and has made the choice to be the "hero" who isn't really anything more than a figurehead.

I just love how he's "the truth will be published for all to know and no one can avoid it" and then when journalists asks him about the charges against him he runs away, it's so honest and it really portrays him in the light of a truth-teller, doesn't it?
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
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Corporations sponsor exploitation of entire 3rd world nations on a regular basis. Guilt by implication, just like with wikileaks. Is it that hard to see?

For the record, everyone posting in P&N is a troll, no matter how good their intention is. Me included.

Do you have a 401k?
 
Jun 26, 2007
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This whole thing is so bizarre. I wonder what the "truth" is.

The man is under warrant to be arrested for the charges brought forth, i don't think it's bizarre at all, i think Julian with his new found fame took things a bit too far and wouldn't take no for an answer.

Of course, in some peoples opinion no amount of evidence or conviction will ever change their minds, he was framed, they are known as conspiracy theorists and they still await the first man on the moon.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
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You'll have to link me to the story that says that.

Also note that the charges are for one instance of rape, several instances of sexual molestation and one instance of unlawful coercion so there is more to it than the original story which was printed BEFORE the investigation started and BEFORE charges were being brought and was completely wrong.


Have you ever read the story? Every one points out how they went to the police together and even now have the same attorney. Again fishy would be an understatment.

"the evening of Aug. 20, that all changed. Assange's host and a second woman appeared at Stockholm police headquarters to complain of his conduct, according to Karin Rosander, spokeswoman for the public prosecutor. "

and...

"After that, the two women retained as their attorney Claes Borgstrom..."


He may be guility but the timing and both of the women seem to be going hand in hand to the police with the same attorney makes me have doubts.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
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I'll do you one better. I even WORK for a corporation. I know where you're going with this, and I'm willing to admit I am just as culpable as you are in the matter.

Point of view. What you see as "exploitation" I see as "our good grace" to bring investment capital to 3rd world nations and put them to work so they don't starve to death.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
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I forget: Did you make a similar post after Valerie Plame's identity was leaked?

Shira, understand you are asking this of a very dishonest poster, pjabber.

I normally do not waste time on him, but since you ask:

He has only one post on Plame - also contrasting her with WikiLeaks.

And no, he did not make a 'similar post', he was an apologist for outing Plame:

"For all of the fake outrage about identifying Plame as a CIA employee, one who was long finished with any covert involvement in the CIA..."

He spouted the right-wing spin lie that Plame 'was long since not an undercover operative'.

There are two lies. One is that the CIA itself took the unusual step of saying she was, contradicting pjabber.

The second is the fact that she had a long history of it - and exposing her put people she had worked with in the past, who did not know she was, in danger.

It could also put her in danger from people she had worked with who did not know.

A third lie pjabber did not post but others on the right did was that 'everyone knew' she was a spy because some obscure Cuban had said she was, IIRC.

So, you are right on target in saying we're talking about people lacking principle.

And this wasn't an exposure for a 'principled reason' - like trying to throw a monkey wrench into the operation that is murdering people wrongly.

It's the basest political act to put a man's wife and others in danger *because he had the gall to tell the truth about the administration lying*.

Even the administration had to admit they were wrong to have put a lie *in the state of the union* - and yet pursued retribution for telling the truth that made them admit it.

Pjabber further lies in putting this all on Armitage, when it was found that there were two, unrelated leaks - Armitage's careless leak, and Libby's conspiratorial one.

That's like saying a guy who sets off a bomb to kill someone isn't doing anything wrong if, unknown to him, someone else had negligently started a fire in the same building.

So, to answer your question, while he wasn't posting here at the time Plame was exposed, he has not ever posted something similar here about Plame.

The right has some who try this sort of thing all the time - when liberals want to end a war, they'll say they're 'murderers' for anyone who they claim is hurt by doing so.

Everyone hurt by the war being started in the first place, of course, well they're just heroes who were on a noble cause and that's ok.

Or there's the old favorite when the early casualties are painful, saying that the war has to continue or the casualties so far will have their sacrifice wasted.

Never any hint that they were already wasted by a wrong war decision they likely supported - only that more casualties are needed because of the other casualties.

This sort of 'logic' can perpetuate just about any war no matter how wrong. That does seem to wear off as an argument, though, eventually as people tire of casualties.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
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www.neftastic.com
Point of view. What you see as "exploitation" I see as "our good grace" to bring investment capital to 3rd world nations and put them to work so they don't starve to death.

Or to fund despotic governments and provide for roaming government thugs to enslave, rape and/or murder to provide for "our good grace". The street goes both ways.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Have you ever read the story? Every one points out how they went to the police together and even now have the same attorney. Again fishy would be an understatment.

"the evening of Aug. 20, that all changed. Assange's host and a second woman appeared at Stockholm police headquarters to complain of his conduct, according to Karin Rosander, spokeswoman for the public prosecutor. "

and...

"After that, the two women retained as their attorney Claes Borgstrom..."


He may be guility but the timing and both of the women seem to be going hand in hand to the police with the same attorney makes me have doubts.

Link me up to that story, will you? It's impossible to know anything by what you just wrote and it's obviously not from the story in the OP.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
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Link me up to that story, will you? It's impossible to know anything by what you just wrote and it's obviously not from the story in the OP.


Sorry forgot to add, but heres a better more detail story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...nge--women-involved-tell-different-story.html

They both consented to sex. They both got mad after they talked to each other and found out he slept with both.

Would you be ok if you were charged with rape based on their story?
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
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The guy has made extremely powerful enemies that would go to great lengths to silence him and his site. I don't know if the charges are true or not, but if I had to bet money I'd bet it on that he's getting set up as a way to silence him without having to outright off him. Offing him at this point would be messy and might cause further embarrassing information to come out.....

Not only that, but the more attention that gets put on him, the less attention gets put on the material in the leaks themselves.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
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Shira, understand you are asking this of a very dishonest poster, pjabber.

My posts are based on information available to me and as that information is understood by me and are not meant to be dishonest in any way whatsoever. Which is why I spend much more effort than most here in identifying sources and use direct and referenced quotes to bolster my arguments.

Your repeating a personal mischaracterization does not make it any more valid, nor does it strengthen your case to indulge in gratuitous insult. Though I can empathize that doing so will offer up a small consolation to being so wrong so often. Multiple dittos in the case of poor little shira, who is very close to being 100% wrong in his own feeble grasp of factoids.

That I may be in error on a rare occasion can be attributed to the fact that I do not necessarily take the time to do in-depth research with every post I make, and may instead proffer a personal opinion rather than a legal brief. But thanks for holding my posts to the same standard of "proof." :awe: Now, if only everyone else would be held to the same standard, we might actually have a bit more fun!

The rest of your post is your typically wasteful meandering and pontificating.

I suggest that anyone interested in knowing the myriad details of the "Plame Affair," including the actual roles, actions and crimes of all involved parties, avoid the partisan spin and look to better references than Craig's post.

I am multi-tasking at the moment and thus cannot post my typical Wall O' Text reply (aren't you glad!) but the Wiki synopsis seems to capture the relevant detail so that would be the best place to spend a half hour or so to understand who did what, why they did it and who can be blamed for what... You might be surprised at what you will learn when you get past the partisan drivel.

The Plame Affair
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
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Forget this. I want more information on our Afghan allies who he exposed with the leaks. What happened to them? Are any of them confirmed to have been killed because of the leaks? I was arguing with a hippy the other day on Facebook and there were very very few articles that even addressed that part of the leaks.

Nothing, zip, zero, zilch.

There have been ZERO reports of anything like that actually. Even the military has admitted as much.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
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Nothing, zip, zero, zilch.

There have been ZERO reports of anything like that actually. Even the military has admitted as much.

Moreover, the Afghan security establishment is such a clusterfuck that it would be nigh impossible to determine what if any impact the leaks had on ANSF casualties or operations.

Let me assure you, if we're looking at leaks in terms of severity, WikiLeaks makes headlines every few months; the ANSF leaks like a sieve all day, every day.