Want to repair PCs in Texas....better hit the books

[Robor]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: techs
I would be FOR a law that required p.c. techs to be licensed if the licensing was designed to ensure competancy in repairing p.c.'s.

Oh great. I don't have any certifications or licenses relevant to PC repair. Looks like I'm out of a job, thanks.

:roll:

Democrats, really helping Americans. :disgust:

Edit: I guess the next time my grandfather called about a problem with his PC, I'll tell him he'll have to call someone else. I'm sure he can afford it on his social security.

:roll:

Seriously? Way to lump all (D)'s in with techs line of thinking. Normally I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with it but lately your posts just make me... :roll:

 

[Red Dawn]

LOL, I wonder if a tech finds child porn on a computer and reports it he'll be guilty of investigating without a lisc.

 

[WHAMPOM]

That law is easily got around, bring the comp in for repair, get a dollar and sign a bill of sale, buy it back for a dollar and repairs. If the shop has ownership it is perfectly legal.

This law sounds like more "Dog in the Manger" legislation.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
That law is easily got around, bring the comp in for repair, get a dollar and sign a bill of sale, buy it back for a dollar and repairs. If the shop has ownership it is perfectly legal.

This law sounds like more "Dog in the Manger" legislation.

Yeah right, what if the unscrupulous proprietor decides to sell the expensive laptop of your he bought for a buck to somebody else at 1000% markup? You know that would happen.

 

[StageLeft]

I don't believe this. Please find a link from a real website.

 

[jjones]

Maybe I'm reading this all wrong but the interpretation I'm getting is that this is probably for privacy and consumer protection. The average PC repair shop has no reason to be snooping around on your hard drive for most PC repair tasks, even virus or malware hunting is usually done by running programs to seek out problems for the most part.

I think this may be intended to protect consumers from having personal or private data exposed at the PC repair shop. I can't count how many times I've heard the story about people running across porn collections in the PCs they've been working on. No reason that could have happened unless they were snooping around on the hard drive.

I could be wrong but that's my interpretation.

 

[ElFenix]

here is the entirety of the offending section:

Sec. 1702.104. INVESTIGATIONS COMPANY. (a) A person acts
as an investigations company for the purposes of this chapter if the
person:
(1) engages in the business of obtaining or
furnishing, or accepts employment to obtain or furnish, information
related to:
(A) crime or wrongs done or threatened against a
state or the United States;
(B) the identity, habits, business, occupation,
knowledge, efficiency, loyalty, movement, location, affiliations,
associations, transactions, acts, reputation, or character of a
person;
(C) the location, disposition, or recovery of
lost or stolen property; or
(D) the cause or responsibility for a fire,
libel, loss, accident, damage, or injury to a person or to property;
(2) engages in the business of securing, or accepts
employment to secure, evidence for use before a court, board,
officer, or investigating committee;
(3) engages in the business of securing, or accepts
employment to secure, the electronic tracking of the location of an
individual or motor vehicle other than for criminal justice
purposes by or on behalf of a governmental entity; or
(4) engages in the business of protecting, or accepts
employment to protect, an individual from bodily harm through the
use of a personal protection officer.
(b) For purposes of Subsection (a)(1), obtaining or
furnishing information includes information obtained or furnished
through the review and analysis of, and the investigation into the
content of, computer-based data not available to the public.





this isn't about consumer protection, because best buy isn't looking into your computer for purposes of finding crimes against the state or the US. they're not looking into your computer for the purpose of finding out where you've been. they're not looking into your computer to find lost or stolen property.

normal pc repair/virus checking/etc. is not any of the few things this law encumbers.

 

[will889]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

this isn't about consumer protection, because best buy isn't looking into your computer for purposes of finding crimes against the state or the US. they're not looking into your computer for the purpose of finding out where you've been. they're not looking into your computer to find lost or stolen property.

normal pc repair/virus checking/etc. is not any of the few things this law encumbers.

Yep. This seemingly is about preventing anyone not state licensed to repair PCs with the goal of doing "state" business, but in reality it seems to be about simple control of the state over individual business owners, and quite possibly eliminating (with eventual amendments) an entire private industry, and thus jobs. IMO this is HLS via state driven by Bush and his crew. The State of Texas of course is a perfect testing ground for all things super-geopolitical driven. This is the State where Rick Perry tried to make a shot mandatory for Merck & Co.'s new vaccine against strains of the human papillomavirus.

 

[Nebor]

This is about privacy and consumer protection. I live in Texas, I work in the IT field, the Texas Rangers haven't busted the door down yet. :roll:

 

[will889]

Originally posted by: Nebor
This is about privacy and consumer protection. I live in Texas, I work in the IT field, the Texas Rangers haven't busted the door down yet. :roll:

lulz, if that were truly the case everytime one of those "loan companies" or "temp employment" agencies saw fit to just dump 10,000 pages of customers private data in the dumpster they would get more than a 5 minute spot on WFAA TV. They would have severe - crippling punishment for it (eg out of business). While at the same time you see some laws to protect, if you look closely to what's going on you can also see that information is allowed - not regulated to be properly protected on purpose as to create the need for laws that don't make any sense, and at the same time look the other way when someones identity is stolen. That's how you create instability in the consumer identity protection market. What they could have done that actually makes sense is have a state agency create a subset of exams, or just periodically review private PC repair shops that have the capacity and have done computer forensics of any kind. Sort of like an auditory system, and NOT make it any part of regular PC repairing. As I read the law it's not part of regular PC reparing per-say, but it's broad enough that in a court of law it leaves it wide open for dramatic creative interpretations.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: will889
Yep. This seemingly is about preventing anyone not state licensed to repair PCs with the goal of doing "state" business, but in reality it seems to be about simple control of the state over individual business owners, and quite possibly eliminating (with eventual amendments) an entire private industry, and thus jobs. IMO this is HLS via state driven by Bush and his crew. The State of Texas of course is a perfect testing ground for all things super-geopolitical driven. This is the State where Rick Perry tried to make a shot mandatory for Merck & Co.'s new vaccine against strains of the human papillomavirus.

i guess you can't read either.

 

[will889]

Care to expand on that static punt?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: jjones
Maybe I'm reading this all wrong but the interpretation I'm getting is that this is probably for privacy and consumer protection. The average PC repair shop has no reason to be snooping around on your hard drive for most PC repair tasks, even virus or malware hunting is usually done by running programs to seek out problems for the most part.

I think this may be intended to protect consumers from having personal or private data exposed at the PC repair shop. I can't count how many times I've heard the story about people running across porn collections in the PCs they've been working on. No reason that could have happened unless they were snooping around on the hard drive.

I could be wrong but that's my interpretation.

They are also fining the consumer if they knowingly take their computer to a NON-ORWELLIAN PC-Tech

^^^^^^^^^ not protecting consumers...

This is like THE KGB setting the rules in Texas

THIS IS TOTAL BS

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: will889
Care to expand on that static punt?

does repairing PCs involve intentionally doing any of the following?

(1) engages in the business of obtaining or
furnishing, or accepts employment to obtain or furnish, information
related to:
(A) crime or wrongs done or threatened against a
state or the United States;
(B) the identity, habits, business, occupation,
knowledge, efficiency, loyalty, movement, location, affiliations,
associations, transactions, acts, reputation, or character of a
person;
(C) the location, disposition, or recovery of
lost or stolen property; or
(D) the cause or responsibility for a fire,
libel, loss, accident, damage, or injury to a person or to property;
(2) engages in the business of securing, or accepts
employment to secure, evidence for use before a court, board,
officer, or investigating committee;
(3) engages in the business of securing, or accepts
employment to secure, the electronic tracking of the location of an
individual or motor vehicle other than for criminal justice
purposes by or on behalf of a governmental entity; or
(4) engages in the business of protecting, or accepts
employment to protect, an individual from bodily harm through the
use of a personal protection officer.

?


does making a law requiring someone to have a PI license to do any of the following destroy an industry?

(1) engages in the business of obtaining or
furnishing, or accepts employment to obtain or furnish, information
related to:
(A) crime or wrongs done or threatened against a
state or the United States;
(B) the identity, habits, business, occupation,
knowledge, efficiency, loyalty, movement, location, affiliations,
associations, transactions, acts, reputation, or character of a
person;
(C) the location, disposition, or recovery of
lost or stolen property; or
(D) the cause or responsibility for a fire,
libel, loss, accident, damage, or injury to a person or to property;
(2) engages in the business of securing, or accepts
employment to secure, evidence for use before a court, board,
officer, or investigating committee;
(3) engages in the business of securing, or accepts
employment to secure, the electronic tracking of the location of an
individual or motor vehicle other than for criminal justice
purposes by or on behalf of a governmental entity; or
(4) engages in the business of protecting, or accepts
employment to protect, an individual from bodily harm through the
use of a personal protection officer.

?


this is about licensing people doing forensic investigation, which is already done in this state. you already have to have a license to do what i'm quoting. licensing requirements for forensic investigation have been in place since at least 1969. that's well before hls, pnac, neocons, or whatever other boogey man you prefer.

the only thing that changed is making clear that if you do the following:

(1) engages in the business of obtaining or
furnishing, or accepts employment to obtain or furnish, information
related to:
(A) crime or wrongs done or threatened against a
state or the United States;
(B) the identity, habits, business, occupation,
knowledge, efficiency, loyalty, movement, location, affiliations,
associations, transactions, acts, reputation, or character of a
person;
(C) the location, disposition, or recovery of
lost or stolen property; or
(D) the cause or responsibility for a fire,
libel, loss, accident, damage, or injury to a person or to property;

on a computer, then you also need to have a license, because for some reason people think that if something is done on a computer the rules don't apply.

 

[will889]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: jjones
Maybe I'm reading this all wrong but the interpretation I'm getting is that this is probably for privacy and consumer protection. The average PC repair shop has no reason to be snooping around on your hard drive for most PC repair tasks, even virus or malware hunting is usually done by running programs to seek out problems for the most part.

I think this may be intended to protect consumers from having personal or private data exposed at the PC repair shop. I can't count how many times I've heard the story about people running across porn collections in the PCs they've been working on. No reason that could have happened unless they were snooping around on the hard drive.

I could be wrong but that's my interpretation.

They are also fining the consumer if they knowingly take their computer to a NON-ORWELLIAN PC-Tech

^^^^^^^^^ not protecting consumers...

This is like THE KGB setting the rules in Texas

THIS IS TOTAL BS

In many cases I don't really think this will happen. Why? because it would also mean they're going to have to go to private homes where people actually run the businesses out of their homes - not they they won't do it but in the beginning I don't think so, but over time, without the public writing the senators and representatives to oppose, this thing may stick and eventually even expand, but the thing is this would be so HUGE in scope that it would be all over the news and likely have a large national story, and of course all of the subsequent stories of people put out of business. I'm all for better standards for PC repair, but having to get a PI equivalent is absolutely ridiculous. Now, if a private PC business desires to do forensics that could result in private information compromised, or reported to the State then I think there could be a law that makes it against the law NOT to report it to the State and have some sort of regular reporting on the particular data at issue until it's resolved.

 

[will889]

Elfenix, no need for the overdramatic forum-warz looking huge quote blocks. Looks like you're the one that didn't read. If you'll read what I posted I said (paraphrase) that in the initial scope of the written part of the law it looks harmless but it leaves it WIDE open for creative interpretation. It's the interpretation part that's worrisome (Alberto Gonzales ring any bells). Maybe you trust open interpretation. Maybe this law really won't allow for much change at all. We'll see.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: will889 I'm all for better standards for PC repair, but having to get a PI equivalent is absolutely ridiculous.

can you read the law? please? just do so. this is not about PC repair. the current law is everything that is above (b) in the parenthesis. it was passed with that language in 1999. it's predecessors have been around since 1969, at the latest. the only thing that changed is

(b) For purposes of Subsection (a)(1), obtaining or
furnishing information includes information obtained or furnished
through the review and analysis of, and the investigation into the
content of, computer-based data not available to the public.

please explain how you could possibly interpret the whole law that could possibly mean that some dude at best buy doing a virus scan gets caught up in this?

 

[will889]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: will889 I'm all for better standards for PC repair, but having to get a PI equivalent is absolutely ridiculous.

can you read the law? please? just do so. this is not about PC repair. the current law is everything that is above (b) in the parenthesis. it was passed with that language in 1999. it's predecessors have been around since 1969, at the latest. the only thing that changed is

(b) For purposes of Subsection (a)(1), obtaining or
furnishing information includes information obtained or furnished
through the review and analysis of, and the investigation into the
content of, computer-based data not available to the public.

please explain how you could possibly interpret the whole law that could possibly mean that some dude at best buy doing a virus scan gets caught up in this?

Ok, but PC "forensics" can be in the PC repair spectrum by virtue of association (interpretation). Meaning some PC repair shops do this type thing. On one hand I understand what you're typing to say - that you have nothing to worry about if you're just replacing HDD's and memory sticks and setting voltages, timings, replacing mobos etc....

On the other hand they could simply interpret someone throwing away or reformatting with DBAN an HD that the Feds may think has criminal data, without the PC repair tech knowing this, as a criminal act. Or, Elfenix, they really could decide that you can't have a PC repaired in TX period unless the repair tech has the equivalent of the PI degree. It could go by HDD repairs since the HD's are typically what has the sensitive data, or it could expand to USB sticks etc....

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: will889

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: jjones
Maybe I'm reading this all wrong but the interpretation I'm getting is that this is probably for privacy and consumer protection. The average PC repair shop has no reason to be snooping around on your hard drive for most PC repair tasks, even virus or malware hunting is usually done by running programs to seek out problems for the most part.

I think this may be intended to protect consumers from having personal or private data exposed at the PC repair shop. I can't count how many times I've heard the story about people running across porn collections in the PCs they've been working on. No reason that could have happened unless they were snooping around on the hard drive.

I could be wrong but that's my interpretation.

They are also fining the consumer if they knowingly take their computer to a NON-ORWELLIAN PC-Tech

^^^^^^^^^ not protecting consumers...

This is like THE KGB setting the rules in Texas

THIS IS TOTAL BS

In many cases I don't really think this will happen. Why? because it would also mean they're going to have to go to private homes where people actually run the businesses out of their homes - not they they won't do it but in the beginning I don't think so, but over time, without the public writing the senators and representatives to oppose, this thing may stick and eventually even expand, but the thing is this would be so HUGE in scope that it would be all over the news and likely have a large national story, and of course all of the subsequent stories of people put out of business. I'm all for better standards for PC repair, but having to get a PI equivalent is absolutely ridiculous. Now, if a private PC business desires to do forensics that could result in private information compromised, or reported to the State then I think there could be a law that makes it against the law NOT to report it to the State and have some sort of regular reporting on the particular data at issue until it's resolved.

Dude.. this is just BIG BROTHER PWNING YOU... once you are certified/trained for PI etc.. then you have an obligation to report anything suspicious....

These people make me sick

 

[ElFenix]

how is erasing data as part of repairing a faulty harddrive 'engag[ing] in the business of obtaining or furnishing... information related to crime or wrongs done or threatened against a state or the United States'?

because that is what you are saying.

 

[will889]

^Yeah I know that, it's been that way for a while now anyway. But this law is different it it's scope in interpretation. I'm not in that business anymore anyway. Not for 3 years now.

 

[will889]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
how is erasing data as part of repairing a faulty harddrive 'engag[ing] in the business of obtaining or furnishing... information related to crime or wrongs done or threatened against a state or the United States'?

because that is what you are saying.

Faulty no. That's not what I was saying. Very obviously, but you would have to know how to read between the lines - right? What I was saying is that if you per say throw away or wipe an HDD that "incidentally" happened to have info that was needed or was being monitored the tech would actually be the one investigated, usually cleared once no fault was discovered in his/her part

By the way - if you erase sensitive data that at that level was being investigated it can be deemed a crime. The DATA can 95% of the time still be recovered though at the FED levels even with a DBAN DOD wipe.

 

[will889]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Dude.. this is just BIG BROTHER PWNING YOU... once you are certified/trained for PI etc.. then you have an obligation to report anything suspicious....

These people make me sick

yeah I understand, but IMO it's the exact reverse of that - you have to HAVE that PI cert to do any sort of investigations as it relates to forensics to begin with. The issue is the huge scope left for the interpretation of what is considered as such. Maybe Elfenix is right and there's zero to worry about for private PC repair techs that do nothing but "repair".

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: will889

Originally posted by: ElFenix
how is erasing data as part of repairing a faulty harddrive 'engag[ing] in the business of obtaining or furnishing... information related to crime or wrongs done or threatened against a state or the United States'?

because that is what you are saying.

Faulty no. That's not what I was saying. Very obviously, but you would have to know how to read between the lines - right? What I was saying is that if you per say throw away or wipe an HDD that "incidentally" happened to have info that was needed or was being monitored the tech would actually be the one investigated, usually cleared once no fault was discovered in his/her part

By the way - if you erase sensitive data that at that level was being investigated it can be deemed a crime. The DATA can 95% of the time still be recovered though at the FED levels even with a DBAN DOD wipe.

while i agree that you can run afoul of the law for erasing data, what does that have to do with the law that i posted, which is the law this thread is about?

if you are repairing a computer and you erase data, which was your example, how are you 'engag[ing] in the business of obtaining or furnishing... information related to crime or wrongs done or threatened against a state or the United States'?

it's a direct question. please don't elide it.


edit: i think we're actually in agreement here. as you just stated, doing forensic investigation already requires you to have a license. i think this change to the law, which is the (b) provision, makes clear that forensic investigation on a computer is still forensic investigation, for which a license is needed.

i have to wonder if a court case came up, in a joke court like eastland, where the court wasn't sure that computer forensic investigation is forensic investigation.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

What it boils down to is if you work on a computer a DA can say you are breaking this law and you're in for a world of trouble. Unless a law is very specific in what it can be applied to law enforcement will apply it to everything when it suits them. And God knows juries find people guilty of breaking vague, stupid laws all the time.