Want to know why Israel won't let UN into Jenin? This is why.

[d1abolic]

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Read this article and you'll know exactly why Israel doesn't want the UN anywhere near Jenin.

<< That, however, is not the case. In fact, of the 53 member countries of the UN's Commission on Human Rights (UNCHR) fully 29 of them are categorized "not free" or "partly free" according to criteria established by Freedom House, a non-profit organization which promotes democracy and human rights around the world. >>

 

[gopunk]

yea... i am not going to say that i know israel is not lying or whatever. but i can understand where they are coming from. i have often been in situations where it would look really bad to someone who doesn't know much about the topic at hand.

 

[Spagina]

If I was in Israel's shoes I would be exercising the same caution. The UN has not been an unbiased body in this conflict and that's where a lot of the suspicion is coming from. If the UN wasn't so one-sided right now, they'd probably be in the camp.

Of course, something else could have happened as well, but there's really no evidence towards either conclusion. Frankly, it's just a colossal mess and the international body isn't helping it one bit.

 

[HOWITIS]

screw the UN. everyone is aware that the UN is basicly the blame america league right?

 

[Jimbo]

On top of the countless UN Resolutions that condem Israel, you should see the ones that The U.S. blocked.
This is just from 1972 onward.

Here is a good one:
Occupied Territories: Calls upon Israel to respect Muslim holy places. S/17769/Rev. 1

Moslems do such a great job of respecting everyone else?s religious sites.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< Couldn't have said it any better myself. Read this article and you'll know exactly why Israel doesn't want the UN anywhere near Jenin.

<< That, however, is not the case. In fact, of the 53 member countries of the UN's Commission on Human Rights (UNCHR) fully 29 of them are categorized "not free" or "partly free" according to criteria established by Freedom House, a non-profit organization which promotes democracy and human rights around the world. >>

>>



Let's see.... The leader of the fact-finding teams is finnish. Other two members are a japanese and a swiss. The leader of the military-advisors is from USA, counterterrorist-experts are from Ireland. Are any of those nations categorized as "not free" or "partly free"? No? That's what I thought...

 

[Czar]

<< On top of the countless UN Resolutions that condem Israel, you should see the ones that The U.S. blocked.
This is just from 1972 onward.

Here is a good one:
Occupied Territories: Calls upon Israel to respect Muslim holy places. S/17769/Rev. 1

Moslems do such a great job of respecting everyone else?s religious sites.

>>


and because they dont then you dont have to

stupid kindergarden logic there

 

[Jimbo]

IDF: Palestinians adding bodies from cemetery to Jenin mass grave.

Link

Czar, If you would back off the dogma for a minute, you would know that is not the case. I just find it funny when some people scream for consideration when they would never show that to another. You are like talking to a Maoist.

 

[Jimbo]

<< Let's see.... The leader of the fact-finding teams is finnish. Other two members are a japanese and a swiss. The leader of the military-advisors is from USA, counterterrorist-experts are from Ireland. Are any of those nations categorized as "not free" or "partly free"? No? That's what I thought... >>


If you are going to twist the truth and try to make her seem to be a liar, you need to try harder. YOUR statement is NOT what SHE said.
Her statement is still correct.
All three members of the fact finding team are NOT military people. The advisors from the USA and Ireland are just that, ADVISORS.
If the UN really wants to get things moving then why don't they get military people from those countries to do the investigation?

Besides, that Swiss weenie, Cornelio Sommaruga, as former head of the Red Cross/Crescent Society has repeatedly blocked Israel's membership to that organization. It must be for his undying love of Israel that he singled them out.

 

[Czar]

<< IDF: Palestinians adding bodies from cemetery to Jenin mass grave.

Link

Czar, If you would back off the dogma for a minute, you would know that is not the case. I just find it funny when some people scream for consideration when they would never show that to another. You are like talking to a Maoist. >>


Personaly I would like both sides to be investigated on how they have been "fighting" this stupid war of theirs. But like you say, since one side is bad then its ok for the other side to be bad, that just doesnt make sense in the real world.

 

[gopunk]

<<

<< Let's see.... The leader of the fact-finding teams is finnish. Other two members are a japanese and a swiss. The leader of the military-advisors is from USA, counterterrorist-experts are from Ireland. Are any of those nations categorized as "not free" or "partly free"? No? That's what I thought... >>


If you are going to twist the truth and try to make her seem to be a liar, you need to try harder. YOUR statement is NOT what SHE said.
Her statement is still correct.
All three members of the fact finding team are NOT military people. The advisors from the USA and Ireland are just that, ADVISORS.
If the UN really wants to get things moving then why don't they get military people from those countries to do the investigation? >>




i agree, the military part is really important. it is like if you showed a normal person what a mortician does... they would see all the blood and freak without thinking twice.

 

[Jimbo]

<< But like you say, since one side is bad then its ok for the other side to be bad, that just doesnt make sense in the real world. >>


It must save you a bunch of time just making things up, instead of doing your homework and telling the truth. Please state when and where I said that.

 

[Nemesis77]

<< If you are going to twist the truth and try to make her seem to be a liar, you need to try harder. YOUR statement is NOT what SHE said.
Her statement is still correct.
All three members of the fact finding team are NOT military people. The advisors from the USA and Ireland are just that, ADVISORS.
If the UN really wants to get things moving then why don't they get military people from those countries to do the investigation? >>



I'm not twisting anything. He said that Human Rights comission has members from countries that are not free. I said that the team-members are from free nations.

If the team doesn't listen to the advisors, I'm pretty sure they (the advisors) will make it public that their opinions were ignored.

The miliaty-people are doing the investigation! But you have to realize that this isn't entirely military-issue! The team-members are fine they way they are. They have military-experts to help them in areas they need more information! And the number of those experts was increased at the request of Israel. I fail to see the problem here.

If the composition of UN Human Right Comittee is the reason why Israel doesn't let the fact-finding mission to go to Jenin, then why don't they just say so?

 

[Nemesis77]

<< i agree, the military part is really important. it is like if you showed a normal person what a mortician does... they would see all the blood and freak without thinking twice. >>



Oh for crying out loud! I'm pretty sure that head of Red Cross has seen plenty of death and suffering in his lifetime. Same goes to expert on refugee-matters. Then we of course have the military and counterterrorist-experts who deal routinely with death. There's also a criminal forensics expert (She's also a finn. Recently she has been working in Bosnia identifying bodies and determining their cause of death) in the team. Yeah, they are all just a bunch of wussies who have never seen a dead body

...

 

[Jimbo]

<< If the composition of UN Human Right Comittee is the reason why Israel doesn't let the fact-finding mission to go to Jenin, then why don't they just say so? >>


If you stop to listen, you will hear. Said Here.

 

[Nemesis77]

<<

<< If the composition of UN Human Right Comittee is the reason why Israel doesn't let the fact-finding mission to go to Jenin, then why don't they just say so? >>


If you stop to listen, you will hear. Said Here. >>



So, that reporter makes that claim. Has Israel made an official comment saying that the composition of UNHCR is the cause? I haven't seen any. If I wrote an article that claimed that Israel denies the team access because of severe war-crimes, would that turn that claim in to a fact?

FWIW: I do not believe that there was mass-killings in Jenin. Amnesty among others has said so. They did however say that IDF committed other war-crimes during their operation.

As for the comments of Sommaruga. I have provided information several times in various threads which proves that his comments were not anti-semitic. And that is the official response of the representative of Israel foreign-ministry who was present when the comments were made.

 

[Jimbo]

<< As for the comments of Sommaruga. I have provided information several times in various threads which proves that his comments were not anti-semitic. And that is the official response of the representative of Israel foreign-ministry who was present when the comments were made. >>

A slip of the toung or an ill thought comment does not an anti-semite make. What I question is the reason Israel was barred from membership. That in the long run is much more telling.

 

[Format C:]

<< To start with, even if one could overlook the UN?s normal anti-Israel bias, it is hard to believe in the objectivity of a fact-finding commission when the same UN that is sending the commission has already, without waiting for its conclusions, passed a resolution condemning Israel for ?mass killings? of Palestinians in Jenin. Yet that is precisely what the UN Human Rights Commission did last Monday, three days after the Security Council approved the fact-finding mission. (emphasis added) >>


link

If this is true is there really anything else that needs to be said?

 

[Iron Woode]

<<<< To start with, even if one could overlook the UN?s normal anti-Israel bias, it is hard to believe in the objectivity of a fact-finding commission when the same UN that is sending the commission has already, without waiting for its conclusions, passed a resolution condemning Israel for ?mass killings? of Palestinians in Jenin. Yet that is precisely what the UN Human Rights Commission did last Monday, three days after the Security Council approved the fact-finding mission. (emphasis added) >>>>

<<If this is true is there really anything else that needs to be said? >>

Only by those who still believe that the UN is unbiased and they exist only for truth and justice. There are far too many brainwashed fools condeming Israel, but not those who commit terrorist acts against Israel and against other countries, ie: World Trade Center. Next thing you know, these groups will whine about the Coalition killing terrorists and Al Queda members because they are not respecting their basic human rights. Oh wait a minute, they have already done that.


That article showed up in my local paper too. Its from the SUN MEDIA corp.

 

[Red Dawn]

On the other hand, If I were guilty of commiting such "alleged"atrocities I wouldn't want the UN investigating either.

 

[etech]

On the other hand, if I were being judged by a kangaroo court where the vedict is a foregone conclusion I wouldn't want the UN investigating either.

 

[Texmaster]

<< If I was in Israel's shoes I would be exercising the same caution. The UN has not been an unbiased body in this conflict and that's where a lot of the suspicion is coming from. If the UN wasn't so one-sided right now, they'd probably be in the camp.

Of course, something else could have happened as well, but there's really no evidence towards either conclusion. Frankly, it's just a colossal mess and the international body isn't helping it one bit. >>



Well said.

Great article too.

 

[Texmaster]

<<

<< To start with, even if one could overlook the UN?s normal anti-Israel bias, it is hard to believe in the objectivity of a fact-finding commission when the same UN that is sending the commission has already, without waiting for its conclusions, passed a resolution condemning Israel for ?mass killings? of Palestinians in Jenin. Yet that is precisely what the UN Human Rights Commission did last Monday, three days after the Security Council approved the fact-finding mission. (emphasis added) >>


link

If this is true is there really anything else that needs to be said? >>



Great point.

I am sick to DEATH of hearing how fair and righteous the UN is when time and time and time again do they not only show their Extreme bias against Israel but their own blind eye to atrocities by their own members.

And I would love to know from the Palestinian supporters what they think about Palestinians adding bodies from a local cemetary to the grave and how now could this EVER be resolved fairly?

And Czar, the point is this UN group is NOT looking at the Palestinian involvement in Jenin. They have repeatly said they only want to look at Israeli "atrocities"
How convienent.

 

[mrCide]

<<

<<

<< To start with, even if one could overlook the UN?s normal anti-Israel bias, it is hard to believe in the objectivity of a fact-finding commission when the same UN that is sending the commission has already, without waiting for its conclusions, passed a resolution condemning Israel for ?mass killings? of Palestinians in Jenin. Yet that is precisely what the UN Human Rights Commission did last Monday, three days after the Security Council approved the fact-finding mission. (emphasis added) >>


link

If this is true is there really anything else that needs to be said? >>



Great point.

I am sick to DEATH of hearing how fair and righteous the UN is when time and time and time again do they not only show their Extreme bias against Israel but their own blind eye to atrocities by their own members.

And I would love to know from the Palestinian supporters what they think about Palestinians adding bodies from a local cemetary to the grave and how now could this EVER be resolved fairly?

And Czar, the point is this UN group is NOT looking at the Palestinian involvement in Jenin. They have repeatly said they only want to look at Israeli "atrocities"
How convienent. >>



Tex; most people here arguing on behalf of tha palestinians are doing it because it's really fvcked to think that the israelis aren't/haven't done anything wrong. You can't turn a blind eye to either. I've given up arguing for the arab cause here, and though I do support arabs AND israelis (as people), i do NOT support what's going on by the israeli government or by plo/suicide bombings/whatever you want to call it.

I think the 'palestinian supporters' just don't want people to think it's good vs evil here.

 

[Texmaster]

<< Tex; most people here arguing on behalf of tha palestinians are doing it because it's really fvcked to think that the israelis aren't/haven't done anything wrong. >>



How wrong you are. 90% of these people argeuing for the Palestinians are the same bunch that jumped all over the false stories of Afgan cilvians dying from US bombs, a story where the "evidence" came from the Taliban itself and was dicproven by the Red Cross.

They were also the first ones to jump all over the lies about the US toturing Taliban POWs. Again disproved this time by Tony Blair.
The theme they have is a pretty standard one.



<< You can't turn a blind eye to either. I've given up arguing for the arab cause here, and though I do support arabs AND israelis (as people), i do NOT support what's going on by the israeli government or by plo/suicide bombings/whatever you want to call it. >>



You can believe however you want.



<< I think the 'palestinian supporters' just don't want people to think it's good vs evil here. >>



But they want to pre-judge a situation. Thats EXACTLY what they did on those other 2 stories. You should be questioning the stories of a "massacre" considering their track record on quick judgements and false claims.