Want to gain muscle, but have high cholesterol

[JEDI]

My cholesterol is at 240. anything above 200 is high.
My doctor recommended lots of cardio, so i'm doing 60 min on the eliptical.

But i also want to gain muscle for the new year.
i have about 7% body fat according the gym, but i'm skinny as a rail.

I saw info about the 5x5 training program for beginners in the fat loss stickied thread:
http://stronglifts.com/strongl...ngth-training-program/

In the fat loss stickied thread, it recommended the 5x5 program, and short intense cardio. The author said long cardio is contradictory to the program.

So how do i gain muscle if i have to do lots of cardio?

 

[MegaVovaN]

Does doc have anything against HIIT cardio? (short cardio)

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The heavy cardio confuses me, since you aren't high body fat, perhaps a member with a medical background can explain it? My advice is to start using Red rice yeast in addition to everything else.

 

[brikis98]

In order to gain mass, you need a caloric surplus. Cardio is only "contradictory" in the sense that it burns up a lot of calories, which means you have to eat a lot more to maintain this surplus. However, as long as you eat enough and keep your protein intake high, you can definitely still gain mass.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: brikis98
In order to gain mass, you need a caloric surplus. Cardio is only "contradictory" in the sense that it burns up a lot of calories, which means you have to eat a lot more to maintain this surplus. However, as long as you eat enough and keep your protein intake high, you can definitely still gain mass.

In longer bouts of cardio, your body will start losing muscle. However, you can still progress nicely and with your condition as it is, long steady state cardio seems like it is a necessity. Have some sort of protein beforehand to counteract any muscle loss and have some after. That should really help with any problems you might have.

 

[cthulhu]

Don't freak out about 40 points. Mine was slightly less than yours and my Doc actually snickered when I asked about mine - in addition to some other strange blood test results. He said he normally sees people with 100 - 200+ points in excess. Since I eat healthy and exercise, he told me to start taking some fish oil. I take 3 x 1200 mg capsules right before bedtime to avoid any fish burps. I'm due back in a few months to see if there has been any change.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: cthulhu
Don't freak out about 40 points. Mine was slightly less than yours and my Doc actually snickered when I asked about mine - in addition to some other strange blood test results. He said he normally sees people with 100 - 200+ points in excess. Since I eat healthy and exercise, he told me to start taking some fish oil. I take 3 x 1200 mg capsules right before bedtime to avoid any fish burps. I'm due back in a few months to see if there has been any change.

Exactly. I wanted to mention that high natural cholesterol levels are not indicative of things like heart disease. If you exercise and eat well, those could just be your natural cholesterol levels. I understand why doctors in the U.S. use this as their tool since most people eat like pigs and don't do anything; but this is not exactly how it works across the board.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: cthulhu
Don't freak out about 40 points. Mine was slightly less than yours and my Doc actually snickered when I asked about mine - in addition to some other strange blood test results. He said he normally sees people with 100 - 200+ points in excess. Since I eat healthy and exercise, he told me to start taking some fish oil. I take 3 x 1200 mg capsules right before bedtime to avoid any fish burps. I'm due back in a few months to see if there has been any change.

I had a blood test in mid-November and my cholesterol results were this:

Lipid Panel:

Component Your Value Standard Range
CHOLESTEROL 236 <239- mg/dL
TRIGLYCERIDE 75 <199- mg/dL
HDL 51 >40- mg/dL
LDL CALCULATED 170 <129- mg/dL

The doctor said the LDL of 170 was very high and I should take zocor, but I said I wanted to try reducing it naturally. He said he's OK with that (for one thing he said it could have been an anomaly in the testing) and I'm going to take another blood test in a week or two. Meantime I've eaten zero butter and cheese, only ~3 eggs and tried to minimize obvious cholesterol foods. My cardio/exercise has been pretty consistent with what I usually do, which is decent. I'm starting to eat some things that are supposed to lower cholesterol, but haven't gotten all that much into it. I'm continuing to take a fish oil tab (enteric coated from Costco almost daily, which I was doing before the last blood test). Mainly I've been thinking diet, but won't know how it's working out until I see the results of my next blood test. I have to admit that I was eating more butter than I used to over the summer/fall.

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: cthulhu
Don't freak out about 40 points. Mine was slightly less than yours and my Doc actually snickered when I asked about mine - in addition to some other strange blood test results. He said he normally sees people with 100 - 200+ points in excess. Since I eat healthy and exercise, he told me to start taking some fish oil. I take 3 x 1200 mg capsules right before bedtime to avoid any fish burps. I'm due back in a few months to see if there has been any change.

Exactly. I wanted to mention that high natural cholesterol levels are not indicative of things like heart disease. If you exercise and eat well, those could just be your natural cholesterol levels. I understand why doctors in the U.S. use this as their tool since most people eat like pigs and don't do anything; but this is not exactly how it works across the board.

Yeah, I don't think my doctor knows just how healthy a lifestyle I have. It's not what it was when I was running 7 miles a day or when I was in the weight room 1.5 hours a day and also swimming 2 miles a day at the same time, but I figure my chances of dieing of a heart attack are damn low. However, I don't want a buildup of fatty tissues in my arteries, so figure I should pay attention to those LDL levels.

 

[nervegrind3r]

i love how all doctors say "do cardio" as their answer to cholesterol. Mine said the same thing with no further comments.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: nervegrind3r
i love how all doctors say "do cardio" as their answer to cholesterol. Mine said the same thing with no further comments.

Yeah, would be nice if they explained what was going on behind it all and what effect cardio would have on the levels. They should also propose lesser, but still effective means of regulating cholesterol.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: nervegrind3r
i love how all doctors say "do cardio" as their answer to cholesterol. Mine said the same thing with no further comments.

Mine said pop pills. Well, to be fair, in the past (when my LDL was below 160) he didn't say anything pretty much. Inasmuch as I don't take any meds (just vitamins, supplements and such), I am balking and am trying to control it naturally.

 

[Sust]

It's not unreasonable to advise a young man/woman with no cardiac risk factors to try exercise first. In all near-term likelihood, it will probably give you more of the good cholesterol or HDLs. If there is any loss in LDLs, it won't be very much unless you obsessively watch your lipid/cholesterol intake.

This might sound discouraging to alot of people at first, but it's also curious to me how people can expect the cumulative snowballing of decades of fatty intake to be totally solved/undone in a few months. Makes me wonder where in our society we got the unreasonable expectation that cholesterol just melts off of our bodies like a slab of butter on hot corn.
Sorry, I'll stop ranting.

Go exercise. Eat healthy. Let your liver do one of its many jobs by supplying your body with all of the cholesterol it needs intrinsically. Have annual checkups with your doc and watch your cholesterol to see if your current cholesterol-lowering efforts are aggressive enough. Depending on the trend line of your next few lipid panels and a detailed history/physical exam, you and your doc can then decide together if you need a statin or not.

Good luck and don't be discouraged from living healthy every day.

 

[eddiebravo]

ldl of 170 is outrageous. what the hell are you eating? try cutting your fat way back...add a few spoonfuls of extra virgin olive oil to get good fat in place of the fat from the deep fried bacon wrapped twinkies that you must be eating now...most of your fat should be monounsaturated. also start taking fish oil, and consider taking red yeast rice.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: eddiebravo
ldl of 170 is outrageous. what the hell are you eating? try cutting your fat way back...add a few spoonfuls of extra virgin olive oil to get good fat in place of the fat from the deep fried bacon wrapped twinkies that you must be eating now...most of your fat should be monounsaturated. also start taking fish oil, and consider taking red yeast rice.

I don't know why my LDL is 170. It was 159 last year. I eat very close to zero bacon. I've cut back on my fat (zero butter for almost 2 months), and the only oil I consume is extra virgin olive oil (bought cheap at Costco). No Twinkies. I have been eating a lot of peanut butter ("natural") lately, and hope that won't be screwing me up. It has some saturated fat in it according to the label (don't know if that would be monosaturated or not ), and I assume that's just from the peanuts. Maybe I should cut out peanut butter now too?

I have been taking fish oil, and you'd see that if you read my post carefully. Virtually daily, enteric coated Costco. What is red yeast rice, how do you eat it and where do you get it? Is it nasty?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Sust
It's not unreasonable to advise a young man/woman with no cardiac risk factors to try exercise first. In all near-term likelihood, it will probably give you more of the good cholesterol or HDLs. If there is any loss in LDLs, it won't be very much unless you obsessively watch your lipid/cholesterol intake.

This might sound discouraging to alot of people at first, but it's also curious to me how people can expect the cumulative snowballing of decades of fatty intake to be totally solved/undone in a few months. Makes me wonder where in our society we got the unreasonable expectation that cholesterol just melts off of our bodies like a slab of butter on hot corn.
Sorry, I'll stop ranting.

Go exercise. Eat healthy. Let your liver do one of its many jobs by supplying your body with all of the cholesterol it needs intrinsically. Have annual checkups with your doc and watch your cholesterol to see if your current cholesterol-lowering efforts are aggressive enough. Depending on the trend line of your next few lipid panels and a detailed history/physical exam, you and your doc can then decide together if you need a statin or not.

Good luck and don't be discouraged from living healthy every day.

I'm told that statins aren't such a bad idea. There are supposed to be real benefits, but I don't know the details. However, there are side effects, and some people actually can't take statins because of the side effects they suffer. Myself, I've never taken them but not taking any meds currently, I want to maintain this posture if I can and do without meds, period if at all possible. Therefore, my obsession with trying to get that trend line going as you indicate. I have to admit that I have been somewhat cavalier in my diet in the past, thinking that my superior level of physical activity exempts me from concern about cholesterol in some degree. But on a scale of 0-10 I don't think I was over a 4 compared to your average American in terms of how bad a diet I had. I don't eat out a lot. When I ate out, I'd ignore dietary concerns quite a bit. Not egregiously, but I'd eat things I never have at home. At home, I was OK, not great, but not terrible. Well, I've gotten progressively better, but evidently not enough. I have to admit, I ate probably 50% more butter since about August, and attribute my higher LDL in November to that. I'm going to take that follow-up blood test in a week or so, and it will be interesting to see the results. My adjustments have been dietary. Not much of additions, more in the way of things I'm now not eating.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: eddiebravo
ldl of 170 is outrageous. what the hell are you eating? try cutting your fat way back...add a few spoonfuls of extra virgin olive oil to get good fat in place of the fat from the deep fried bacon wrapped twinkies that you must be eating now...most of your fat should be monounsaturated. also start taking fish oil, and consider taking red yeast rice.

Ok, seriously? You must take everything mainstream tells you and cream all over it. Doctors do this as a default since people have such horrid diets nowadays. However, IF YOU WOULD LOOK THINGS UP BEFOREHAND, you would see that there are clear exceptions (not uncommon ones at that) to what you're saying. Some people eat great - fish, grass fed beef, chicken, greens, veggies, fruits, etc - and STILL have high cholesterol. That's because dietary cholesterol != blood cholesterol.

Please refer yourself to this website where you can contemplate things other than what is spoon fed to you.

 

[eddiebravo]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: eddiebravo
ldl of 170 is outrageous. what the hell are you eating? try cutting your fat way back...add a few spoonfuls of extra virgin olive oil to get good fat in place of the fat from the deep fried bacon wrapped twinkies that you must be eating now...most of your fat should be monounsaturated. also start taking fish oil, and consider taking red yeast rice.

Ok, seriously? You must take everything mainstream tells you and cream all over it. Doctors do this as a default since people have such horrid diets nowadays. However, IF YOU WOULD LOOK THINGS UP BEFOREHAND, you would see that there are clear exceptions (not uncommon ones at that) to what you're saying. Some people eat great - fish, grass fed beef, chicken, greens, veggies, fruits, etc - and STILL have high cholesterol. That's because dietary cholesterol != blood cholesterol.

Please refer yourself to this website where you can contemplate things other than what is spoon fed to you.

where in my post did i say ANYTHING about dietary cholesterol? maybe if you stopped wacking off to brikis's crossfit posts for a few minutes you would allow enough blood to leave your schlong and get back to your head for long enough for your brain to function properly.

unheated and unrefined monounsaturated fat(extra virgin olive oil, avocados, almonds, etc.) will lower your ldl and raise hdl. transfat will do the opposite. saturated fat will raise both. polyunsaturated omega-3's will improve hdl and reduce inflammation(and inflammation is quickly becoming one of the more important risk factor for heart disease). ldl of 170 is NOT healthy. if you start by limiting the fat you are eating, and then add in primarily monounsaturated fats in place of those unhealthy fats you were eating before, you will improve your cholesterol. there are other things like soluble fiber or niacin that can be helpful, but the most important dietary issue is changing the quantity and type of fat you are consuming.

as for red yeast rice, it is a supplement you take in capsule form. it basically acts like a statin, so it is a good thing to try if diet and exercise alone are not getting you where you want to be and your next step is going to be prescription drugs.

 

[Muse]

unheated and unrefined monounsaturated fat(extra virgin olive oil, avocados, almonds, etc.)

That means I can't roast my almonds? Can't roast my peanuts prior to making peanut butter? The olive oil I put in my whole wheat bread is compromised by the baking process? :Q

 

[Sust]

Originally posted by: Muse

I'm told that statins aren't such a bad idea. There are supposed to be real benefits, but I don't know the details. However, there are side effects, and some people actually can't take statins because of the side effects they suffer. Myself, I've never taken them but not taking any meds currently, I want to maintain this posture if I can and do without meds, period if at all possible. Therefore, my obsession with trying to get that trend line going as you indicate. I have to admit that I have been somewhat cavalier in my diet in the past, thinking that my superior level of physical activity exempts me from concern about cholesterol in some degree. But on a scale of 0-10 I don't think I was over a 4 compared to your average American in terms of how bad a diet I had. I don't eat out a lot. When I ate out, I'd ignore dietary concerns quite a bit. Not egregiously, but I'd eat things I never have at home. At home, I was OK, not great, but not terrible. Well, I've gotten progressively better, but evidently not enough. I have to admit, I ate probably 50% more butter since about August, and attribute my higher LDL in November to that. I'm going to take that follow-up blood test in a week or so, and it will be interesting to see the results. My adjustments have been dietary. Not much of additions, more in the way of things I'm now not eating.

Some think that statins do more than just lower LDL and slightly bump HDLs.. The most common side effects are related to liver function and muscle aches, but otherwise they are generally well tolerated. It will ultimately be up to you and your doc to decide what's the best course of action.
I never knew myself until I learned in biochem that your liver literally makes all the cholesterol it needs to make hormones and that any oral intake of cholesterol is just excess that can be stored by your body for later use. I wouldn't obsess over cholesterol intake per se, but I would limit unnecessary intake whenever possible. At least thats my take on it. I'm no doctor.

Hopefully, you'll see a good sized increase in your HDLs after further exercise and diet changes, and maybe even your LDLs might take a hit over the next 10 years or so. Then again you might have had a false high reading and your LDLs will be magically lower. Good luck Muse and all other ATers fighting the cholesterol.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Sust

Originally posted by: Muse

I'm told that statins aren't such a bad idea. There are supposed to be real benefits, but I don't know the details. However, there are side effects, and some people actually can't take statins because of the side effects they suffer. Myself, I've never taken them but not taking any meds currently, I want to maintain this posture if I can and do without meds, period if at all possible. Therefore, my obsession with trying to get that trend line going as you indicate. I have to admit that I have been somewhat cavalier in my diet in the past, thinking that my superior level of physical activity exempts me from concern about cholesterol in some degree. But on a scale of 0-10 I don't think I was over a 4 compared to your average American in terms of how bad a diet I had. I don't eat out a lot. When I ate out, I'd ignore dietary concerns quite a bit. Not egregiously, but I'd eat things I never have at home. At home, I was OK, not great, but not terrible. Well, I've gotten progressively better, but evidently not enough. I have to admit, I ate probably 50% more butter since about August, and attribute my higher LDL in November to that. I'm going to take that follow-up blood test in a week or so, and it will be interesting to see the results. My adjustments have been dietary. Not much of additions, more in the way of things I'm now not eating.

Some think that statins do more than just lower LDL and slightly bump HDLs.. The most common side effects are related to liver function and muscle aches, but otherwise they are generally well tolerated. It will ultimately be up to you and your doc to decide what's the best course of action.
I never knew myself until I learned in biochem that your liver literally makes all the cholesterol it needs to make hormones and that any oral intake of cholesterol is just excess that can be stored by your body for later use. I wouldn't obsess over cholesterol intake per se, but I would limit unnecessary intake whenever possible. At least thats my take on it. I'm no doctor.

Hopefully, you'll see a good sized increase in your HDLs after further exercise and diet changes, and maybe even your LDLs might take a hit over the next 10 years or so. Then again you might have had a false high reading and your LDLs will be magically lower. Good luck Muse and all other ATers fighting the cholesterol.

I think I'll have my follow up blood test next week. Thing is, it will be hard to know if a difference in results is because of inaccurate testing (this is Kaiser Permanente) or my dietary adjustments. I certainly have altered my food consumption. Basically, I've cut out all butter and cheese, and almost all eggs. I wasn't eating much in the way of fatty meats anyway. My exercise hasn't changed much.

 

[RESmonkey]

Iron Cardio. Do cardio with a barbell; like hang cleans x15 every 30 seconds of a light weight. Combining HIIT w/ some weight.

 

[Muse]

I had a blood test this morning and I already have the results and they are better than I could have hoped. My lipid panel in mid November was:

Component Your Value Standard Range
CHOLESTEROL 236 <239- mg/dL
TRIGLYCERIDE 75 <199- mg/dL
HDL 51 >40- mg/dL
LDL CALCULATED 170 <129- mg/dL


Today, exactly 2 months later:

Component Your Value Standard Range
CHOLESTEROL 197 <239- mg/dL
TRIGLYCERIDE 92 <199- mg/dL
HDL 48 >40- mg/dL
LDL CALCULATED 131 <129- mg/dL


I just sent this message to my primary care physician:
- - - -
Some difference, huh?

Component Your Value Standard Range
CHOLESTEROL 197 <239- mg/dL
TRIGLYCERIDE 92 <199- mg/dL
HDL 48 >40- mg/dL
LDL CALCULATED 131 <129- mg/dL

Best cholesterol results I've had in as long as I can remember, and this with just two months of this time really paying attention and cutting out a lot of stuff. Like I told you in retrospect (that wake up call mid-November) I realized that my butter consumption had gone up a lot since June. After the November test I cut out ALL butter and cheese. My meat consumption has been the same, which isn't a lot. Maybe 3-4 eggs in the last 2 months, the rest just egg whites (powdered).

I guess we can cancel that statin scenario, eh? I've got a new outlook, an attitude adjustment. My excercise has been really the same -- I do quite a bit, always do.

- - - -

Of course, it's possible that the difference was because of faulty testing, and that's always possible. Still, my assumption is that it is due entirely to dietary adjustments. I think I could have done significantly better. I only realized in the last week or so the possible role of saturated fats coming from nuts. I've been eating a lot of peanut butter, good "natural" peanuts, no hydrogenated oils, but even so there's a fair amount of saturated fat in peanuts.

I don't miss the cheese at all (maybe 1/2 an ounce to an ounce a day, anyway average, 2 tops was what I was eating), and the butter, well, I miss it sometimes but not all that much. I like what I'm eating fine.