Want Moderate FPS Boost: Add Additional HD4850, or Get a 5xxx Card?

[Adam8281]

*Now updated with results*

Basic Facts:

I game at 1920x1200. Up until now I've run almost all games just fine on high settings on my rig, which includes:

E8400
HD4850
8GB RAM
Windows 7 x64

I just got Bad Company 2, however, and the framerate is unacceptably choppy on high settings (I'd guesstimate it's around 19-20fps when there's a lot of action on screen).

My question:

Would adding another HD4850 (i.e. crossfire) be an adequate fix, or do I need to go to a completely new GPU? Adding an additional HD4850 seems ideal since it's a pretty cheap solution. Additionally, the HD5xxx cards are pretty pricey right now, probably because of lack of a viable nVidia solution, which should change soon once Fermi is released. Thus, I wonder if it doesn't really make sense to buy an HD5xxx card right now when all I'm looking for is a pretty modest FPS boost. Any thoughts?

*3/15 Edit With Some Results****************************

The card is in, and I've done some preliminary tests, which have me pleased!

On medium settings with my 512MB 4850, I was averaging in the mid 40's. Once I crossfired the 512MB card and the 1GB card, the framerate on medium settings jumped to the mid 70's.

On high settings with my 512MB 4850, I was averaging in the low to mid 20's. Once I crossfired, the framerate on high settings jumped to the mid 40's.

I haven't done extensive tests - this was only with one level of Bad Company 2. So it's possible that performance on high settings with CF will be worse than what I've seen so far, as some have suggested earlier in this thread (their point has been that the textures on high take up more than 512MB, so CF won't help since I'm still limited to 512MB). But right now it looks like Crossfire does indeed help on high settings, even though my vRAM is limited to 512MB

***************************************************************

 

[dguy6789]

If your current 4850 is a 1GB card, getting another 1GB 4850 would increase performance a lot. If you have a 512MB card then don't bother with crossfire, you should just buy a Radeon HD 5850.

 

[Adam8281]

If your current 4850 is a 1GB card, getting another 1GB 4850 would increase performance a lot. If you have a 512MB card then don't bother with crossfire, you should just buy a Radeon HD 5850.

My current 4850 is 512MB. So Crossfiring 512MB 4850s doesn't do much?

 

[faxon]

If your current 4850 is a 1GB card, getting another 1GB 4850 would increase performance a lot. If you have a 512MB card then don't bother with crossfire, you should just buy a Radeon HD 5850.

this. 1gb frame buffer is needed for 1920x1200 res in most modern games because the larger pixel count images dont always fit entirely in 512mb frame buffers

 

[dguy6789]

My current 4850 is 512MB. So Crossfiring 512MB 4850s doesn't do much?

To make a long explanation short, you are correct. When you Crossfire two cards, you don't get extra memory. At 1920x1200 with more demanding games, memory usage begins to exceed 512MB. Once that happens, it doesn't matter how much GPU power you have, it will be bottlenecked by the memory and performance will be low.

 

[Adam8281]

Makes sense - thanks for the advice. Now I just need to figure out whether to buy a 5850 now, or take a chance to see how sharply prices drop when nVidia's new cards come out...

 

[dguy6789]

I don't think there is any real chance that prices will go up with time. Worst case scenario they don't drop in price, best case they do. If you could wait until the end of the month when Fermi comes out, I'd do that.

 

[Termie]

Before you invest in a new video card, try this trick: change the DX settings in the settings.ini file from DX=Auto to DX=9. You'll find it in your Documents/BFBC2 folder.

I'm gaming at about 55fps, all high, 1920x1200, but DX9 (which may shut off AA, actually). My 8800gt couldn't come close to handling DX10 at those settings. Another step would be to drop down to medium from high. It makes almost no difference visually but will give you an extra 5FPS.

And to answer your question, by going crossfire, you'll get maybe 50-75% more FPS. If you're really averaging 20FPS, there might be something wrong. This article suggests you should be getting closer to 35: http://www.techspot.com/article/255-battlefield-bad-company2-performance/page5.html

 

[happy medium]

Bad Company 2 uses about 450mb of video memory at 1900x1080 @ high settings with no aa.
A single 4850 will not allow you to play @ 1900x1080 at high settings with direct x 10. I would just buy another 4850 used for about 80$. You frames should go up 75% in most titles. Plus this will buy you time to decide on a single card high end solution in 6 months when you really need it. Prices will be much better by then.


Its an easy choice, buy another 4850 for 80$ and get a nice 70/80% boost in most games, or spend 300+ for a 5850 to get about the same performance, except with a few choice games and when using aa/af.

 

[formulav8]

Contrary to what some may say, there ARE decent gains to be found even if your using the so-called 'Lowly 512MB' version. I've seen in the F/S forum some 1GB/512MB 4850 at times for $75-$90. Definitely worth the money for some very nice gains possible!



Jason

 

[Termie]

Contrary to what some may say, there ARE decent gains to be found even if your using the so-called 'Lowly 512MB' version. I've seen in the F/S forum some 1GB/512MB 4850 at times for $75-$90. Definitely worth the money for some very nice gains possible!

Or consider this new 4850 512MB for $95 at Newegg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102824

 

[vj8usa]

I wouldn't recommend using Crossfired 512MB 4850s these days. Even with a single 4850, I've run into plenty of cases where my framerates are otherwise fine but I have to drop settings since I'm running out of VRAM. This would only be exacerbated with Crossfire.

 

[RussianSensation]

http://www.techspot.com/article/255-battlefield-bad-company2-performance/page5.html

I say if you really like this game and intend to play it almost daily, get the 5850. 5 series cards perform really well in BFBC2. Overclock the 5850 and you'll be near 5870's performance.

Don't worry about the CPU too much:
http://www.techspot.com/article/255-battlefield-bad-company2-performance/page7.html

 

[lavaheadache]

you guys are crazy..... Start by learning from experience versus what you think you may have read somewhere. Sure crossfired 512 meg cards will run into the occasional hitch but it will be a mere $75 dollars for a big performance increase 91.3% of the time. Next year or so when 512 meg cards will be a real bottleneck he can offload the 4850's for a decent amount and buy a card that will be a better upgrade then what the 5xxx series is



*** edit***

Happy Medium gave very solid advice. Listen to him !!

I would actually recommend getting a 1 gig 4850 just so you can test it in a few areas that you think you are vmem limited and know for sure when you are at the limit. You can still crossfire a 1 gig card and a 512 meg it will only use 512 megs of the 1 gig however

 

[SlowSpyder]

Contrary to what some may say, there ARE decent gains to be found even if your using the so-called 'Lowly 512MB' version. I've seen in the F/S forum some 1GB/512MB 4850 at times for $75-$90. Definitely worth the money for some very nice gains possible!

Yea, my 4870 with 512MB was great at 1920x1200. I would get choppy FPS in AoC when I went with 4xAA and DX10 mode, but in DX9 with 2xAA it ran great. I think 512MB is sufficient, though not ideal... you can certainly get by with it and then some.

OP, I had a very similar choice to make. I went with the 5870 instead of a second 512MB 4870 just so I didn't have to deal with any possible multi-GPU issues as well as power/heat.

 

[Childs]

Before you invest in a new video card, try this trick: change the DX settings in the settings.ini file from DX=Auto to DX=9. You'll find it in your Documents/BFBC2 folder.

I'm gaming at about 55fps, all high, 1920x1200, but DX9 (which may shut off AA, actually). My 8800gt couldn't come close to handling DX10 at those settings. Another step would be to drop down to medium from high. It makes almost no difference visually but will give you an extra 5FPS.

And to answer your question, by going crossfire, you'll get maybe 50-75% more FPS. If you're really averaging 20FPS, there might be something wrong. This article suggests you should be getting closer to 35: http://www.techspot.com/article/255-battlefield-bad-company2-performance/page5.html

Man, they used an i7 OC'd to 3.7Ghz. My performance Q6600@3Ghz is lowly in comparison, but going from an 8800GT med @1680x1050 to a GTX 260 216 high w/4xAA 8XAF made a substantial difference. Everything is fairly smooth now, but smooth is probably 35fps! I'm curious to see what it would look like maxed out, but I'll wait till the new Nv cards are released + 3 months to see what the new cards can do, at a reasonable price.

 

[Adam8281]

Thanks for all the posts, guys. I think I'll pick up a second 4850 for cheap. If this doesn't solve my issues I can quickly offload it for a similar price, and then I'll wait until the nVidia DX11 cards come out and see what the price landscape looks like.

 

[happy medium]

Thanks for all the posts, guys. I think I'll pick up a second 4850 for cheap. If this doesn't solve my issues I can quickly offload it for a similar price, and then I'll wait until the nVidia DX11 cards come out and see what the price landscape looks like.

Please make sure you get back and give us your results.:thumbsup:

 

[dguy6789]

Making a mistake if you intend on this setup having any longetivity. Crossfire 4850 512 will be nearly 100% faster in situations where the memory usage is near or less than 512MB. Crossfire 4850 512s will be as fast as a single 4850 512 if the game is using closer to 1GB of memory. Your game performance will plummet like a rock in more demanding games and future games. A 5850 1GB would have no such drawback.

 

[Childs]

Making a mistake if you intend on this setup having any longetivity. Crossfire 4850 512 will be nearly 100% faster in situations where the memory usage is near or less than 512MB. Crossfire 4850 512s will be as fast as a single 4850 512 if the game is using closer to 1GB of memory. Your game performance will plummet like a rock in more demanding games and future games. A 5850 1GB would have no such drawback.

The problem for him I think is the cost. A 5850 isnt cheap. I would think even two 4870 1GB cards used would be a better way to go, as that would possibly come out to under $200, depending on a decent deal. In 6 months all the stuff will be better performance/$$$ with the new NV stuff just around the corner. He might not even need to upgrade again for a bit.

 

[Adam8281]

OK, I bought a used HD 4850 1GB card for $82. I understand what dguy6789 is saying about memory size being the limiting factor with modern games, but right now cost is my biggest concern. I'd rather not be able to play Bad Company 2 on high than pay $275-$300 for an HD 5850, when I anticipate prices dropping pretty soon.

The 1GB 4850 should let me do a couple things. First, I can try running that card solo to see if the limiting factor of my current 512MB 4850 setup is truly the RAM. Second, I can crossfire the 1GB 4850 with the 512MB 4850 (thus limiting the total memory to 512MB), to see what kind of difference the GPU boost makes without a RAM increase.

Earlier today I ran some fraps benchmarks with my current 512MB 4850 setup. On "high" settings I was averaging about 23 fps. When I switched to "medium" settings the framerate instantly doubled to around 45 fps.

 

[TemjinGold]

OK, I bought a used HD 4850 1GB card for $82. I understand what dguy6789 is saying about memory size being the limiting factor with modern games, but right now cost is my biggest concern. I'd rather not be able to play Bad Company 2 on high than pay $275-$300 for an HD 5850, when I anticipate prices dropping pretty soon.

The 1GB 4850 should let me do a couple things. First, I can try running that card solo to see if the limiting factor of my current 512MB 4850 setup is truly the RAM. Second, I can crossfire the 1GB 4850 with the 512MB 4850 (thus limiting the total memory to 512MB), to see what kind of difference the GPU boost makes without a RAM increase.

Earlier today I ran some fraps benchmarks with my current 512MB 4850 setup. On "high" settings I was averaging about 23 fps. When I switched to "medium" settings the framerate instantly doubled to around 45 fps.

If it IS the ram, you can always off your 512mb and get another 1GB for xfire.

I wouldn't bet on the price drop being such a sure thing. Fermi might not have wide enough availability and its pricing might not be competitive enough to warrant a price drop on the red side...

 

[RussianSensation]

Any update on performance increase with the 2nd 4850?

 

[Adam8281]

I just bought it yesterday off of Anandtech For Sale, so it'll be a few days before I actually get the card in the mail. I'll post benchmarks after I do.

 

[evolucion8]

To make a long explanation short, you are correct. When you Crossfire two cards, you don't get extra memory. At 1920x1200 with more demanding games, memory usage begins to exceed 512MB. Once that happens, it doesn't matter how much GPU power you have, it will be bottlenecked by the memory and performance will be low.

I wouldn't recommend using Crossfired 512MB 4850s these days. Even with a single 4850, I've run into plenty of cases where my framerates are otherwise fine but I have to drop settings since I'm running out of VRAM. This would only be exacerbated with Crossfire.

Funny enough, the lack of VRAM with Crossfire is less evident than when a single GPU is used, which means that a boost in performance will be seen, so HD 4850 1GB Crossfire should be 30% faster than the HD 4850 512MB Crossfire in VRAM limited situations, knowing already that ATi's VRAM management is far more robust than nVidia's equivalent, improves even better in Multi GPU configurations. But games from now on will be more VRAM hungry.

I just bought it yesterday off of Anandtech For Sale, so it'll be a few days before I actually get the card in the mail. I'll post benchmarks after I do.

Don't you feel the urge to play with your new card? Like a kid with a new toy? I feel the same, but I have to wait for a Molex to PCI-E connector because I don't have enough PCI-E power cables and I can't use my Crossfire set up yet. :-(