Want a cheap reliable luxurious car

[heymrdj]

I've never seen a car with that but I guess gloves are cheaper.

Dodge seems to be the only low end manufacturer putting it in in errthing. I had it on my Dart (came with the heated seats, cheap package). I personally sound the heated wheel better than having heated seats. I can't hit all the steering wheel or radio touch screen controls with my winter gloves on.

 

[jlee]

I've never seen a car with that but I guess gloves are cheaper.

I ferried an '09 Hyundai Genesis sedan around for someone a few times and it had a heated steering wheel. It was nice (coming from northern NH) but not necessary by any stretch.

 

[Bock]

+1 for the crown vic.

 

[Greenman]

So I currently have a BMW and love the way it drives, I would love to get another cheap BMW but due to the price and bad reliability I'm tending to avoid it. I'd prefer a car that is well known to make it to 200k miles without issues (maybe that restricts it to Japanese brands only, I don't mind)

Under $3000 (Currently under 130k miles)
-Remote startable
-Heater and AC are ready to go quickly (My corolla until it fully warms up will push cold and hot air through the vents, where as my BMW only pushes out hot air, although at a slower rate until it gets hotter).
-Heated seats
-Sedan

If a lexus does all this stuff I'll take it, although I really hate the corolla when the temperatures are in the extremes

Here are some pluses although not required
-Good on gas or good on power
-RWD w/ LSD
-Heated wheel
-Heated side mirrors
-Auto-dimming mirrors
-One smooth ass transmission (particualrly in heavy bumper to bumper traffic - might be hard to know about unless you've lived in an area like DC. Transmissions heat up here in bumper to bumper and become quite rough)
Comfort > sports

Odd that you think only Japanese cars will last over 200k. I've driven Fords my whole life and never had one last less than 250k miles. My last pickup carried heavy loads and pulled a dump trailer all the time and it went 266k miles without a major repair. The list was 2 wheel bearings, a blown out spark plug (took less than an hour to repair), an alternator, and maybe the water pump.

If you come across the car you're looking for at that price point let me know, I'll buy three.

 

[matty67]

The difference today between #1 and #10 or #15 is almost negligible. It's not like the 80s or 90s where Honda, Toyota, we're 1 and 2, American was hit and miss, and Hyundai was the friend you felt sorry for.

Today care and maintenance is much more important than the badge. I've seen domestic, Asian, and European all last 200k + and I've seen them die far before their time.

Your 3k budget is a problem. As is the nitpicking things. So ignoring the price...
Anything Lexus IS/GS would be good. The ES is a tarted up Camry. Acura is good but you're giving up RWD for FWD as there's no way in hell you can get a reliable AWD Acura for under 3. A Cadillac CTS would work. A BMW with a straight 6 without a hairdryer is a solid choice. So that's 330/328/325/323 models. You can also find 530 and 528 models I believe. Avoid 335/535 and the newer turbo 328 models that shouldn't be on your radar as they will have an additional 0 in the price. 5 series take bigger hits on price.

Audi V6 models would be decent - if they've been properly maintained.

Low price that won't die - even tho you may want it to - would be a a Pontiac Sunfire/Chevy Cavalier/Chevy Cobalt/Pontiac Pursuit. Like other GM motors and stuff they often die due to neglect rather than wear. Thing like oil changes and coolant maintenance are amazing things. The 5spd is the better transmission choice but the automatic does its job. Corolla's and Civic's are in the same boat but are often deemed to be "better" because they're Japanese. To each their own I guess. My cousins late 90s Corolla has one of the worst passenger seat I've ever had the displeasure of meeting for a prolonged period of time. Oh a Golf/Jetta/GTI is also a good choice. No RWD tho either.

 

[tortillasoup]

The difference today between #1 and #10 or #15 is almost negligible. It's not like the 80s or 90s where Honda, Toyota, we're 1 and 2, American was hit and miss, and Hyundai was the friend you felt sorry for.

Today care and maintenance is much more important than the badge. I've seen domestic, Asian, and European all last 200k + and I've seen them die far before their time.

Your 3k budget is a problem. As is the nitpicking things. So ignoring the price...
Anything Lexus IS/GS would be good. The ES is a tarted up Camry. Acura is good but you're giving up RWD for FWD as there's no way in hell you can get a reliable AWD Acura for under 3. A Cadillac CTS would work. A BMW with a straight 6 without a hairdryer is a solid choice. So that's 330/328/325/323 models. You can also find 530 and 528 models I believe. Avoid 335/535 and the newer turbo 328 models that shouldn't be on your radar as they will have an additional 0 in the price. 5 series take bigger hits on price.

Audi V6 models would be decent - if they've been properly maintained.

Low price that won't die - even tho you may want it to - would be a a Pontiac Sunfire/Chevy Cavalier/Chevy Cobalt/Pontiac Pursuit. Like other GM motors and stuff they often die due to neglect rather than wear. Thing like oil changes and coolant maintenance are amazing things. The 5spd is the better transmission choice but the automatic does its job. Corolla's and Civic's are in the same boat but are often deemed to be "better" because they're Japanese. To each their own I guess. My cousins late 90s Corolla has one of the worst passenger seat I've ever had the displeasure of meeting for a prolonged period of time. Oh a Golf/Jetta/GTI is also a good choice. No RWD tho either.

Are you slow? Any european car made from '98+ is going to be hell to maintain and repair. I'm not saying all euro vehicles before '98 are reliable but after about '98, that's when almost ALL became very expensive/impossible to keep working properly without dumping a fortune into them. The only Volvo's I'd touch are the RWD models, everything else is a future headache. Euro cars are best leased, never owned. The obsession over RWD is wasted because OP is looking for a luxurious, reliable vehicle. Specifically excluding FWD just increases the likelihood of getting an unreliable, expensive vehicle as FWD are less expensive vehicles.

 

[matty67]

Slow? I've had 2 VW's for the last decade. Both newer than 98 and neither requiring anything out of the ordinary. My 03 did require the replacement of coil packs but they weren't expensive. My parents have had Audi's for the better part of a decade neither new but newer than 98 and again neither required selling organs or anything else special.

Are there stories of people with massive repairs on VW and Audi? Yes. But saying that Lexus, Honda, or Toyota are immune from this is ridiculous. Shit happens. What people don't like to admit is that they were too cheap to do the proper maintenance which resulted in them blowing up their motor or something to that effect.

 

[tortillasoup]

Slow? I've had 2 VW's for the last decade. Both newer than 98 and neither requiring anything out of the ordinary. My 03 did require the replacement of coil packs but they weren't expensive. My parents have had Audi's for the better part of a decade neither new but newer than 98 and again neither required selling organs or anything else special.

Are there stories of people with massive repairs on VW and Audi? Yes. But saying that Lexus, Honda, or Toyota are immune from this is ridiculous. Shit happens. What people don't like to admit is that they were too cheap to do the proper maintenance which resulted in them blowing up their motor or something to that effect.

List the cars in question. Be as specific as possible.

 

[Kushina]

What about an LS400?

 

[matty67]

List the cars in question. Be as specific as possible.

My cars? 99 Mk3 VR6 GTI GLX w/ 5 spd and fairly well loaded.
03 24V VR6 GTI 6spd also fairly loaded except Climatronic.
My mom had an 01 A6 2.7T and now has an 07 A4 3.2 - both cars were Quattro. The 2.7 was going to need some turbo work - a known issue. A 2.7T isn't a car/motor that isn't without well known problems that can be massive pains in the ass. But the 3.2 is quite robust as is the new supercharged 3.0T in the S4/S5/A6/SQ5.

Honda has had many problems with automatic transmissions in their Accord and the Oddessey. Many issues come down to ownership and maintenance. I know many people who believe that an Audi or a VW is a great way to spend a lot of money with nothing to show for it. In my experience my Preludes were more expensive to run than my VW's were. I also find that the majority of people saying that X car is a money pit have never had X car. Or their parents or a friend had an old POS that was the definition of a POS but that has coloured their entire perspective.

But back to what you were saying yes some German/European cars can be horrifically expensive. In my experience they're often Mercedes or BMW cars and most often their MSRP was well into the 6 figure range. Older high end BMW's mid-late 90s also have an astounding amount of electronics that are outdated and EOL. Flip down the rear seat in an older 7-series and stand in awe of the circuits and the massive clusterfuk of wiring. Those are the types of things you want to avoid. The newer stuff doesn't have that same level of complexity. That said buying what was a $100,000+ car on a shoestring budget is stupid.

What has your experience been?

To the OP an LS400 should be fine. Make sure it has clean records and that a mechanic you trust looks it over. ANY car can be abused and busted before its time. I know a guy who eats clutches. But he knows how to drive! That he rides the clutch longer than a cowboy rides a bull can't possibly be the issue.

 

[yoda5]

Saab

 

[tortillasoup]

My cars? 99 Mk3 VR6 GTI GLX w/ 5 spd and fairly well loaded.
03 24V VR6 GTI 6spd also fairly loaded except Climatronic.
My mom had an 01 A6 2.7T and now has an 07 A4 3.2 - both cars were Quattro. The 2.7 was going to need some turbo work - a known issue. A 2.7T isn't a car/motor that isn't without well known problems that can be massive pains in the ass. But the 3.2 is quite robust as is the new supercharged 3.0T in the S4/S5/A6/SQ5.

Fun you mentioned your VWs have manual transmissions because for those cars, their automatic transmissions are pathetic.

Honda has had many problems with automatic transmissions in their Accord and the Oddessey. Many issues come down to ownership and maintenance. I know many people who believe that an Audi or a VW is a great way to spend a lot of money with nothing to show for it. In my experience my Preludes were more expensive to run than my VW's were. I also find that the majority of people saying that X car is a money pit have never had X car. Or their parents or a friend had an old POS that was the definition of a POS but that has coloured their entire perspective.

You can't compare reliability of your manual transmission VW cars with the automatic transmissions of the Honda as that's never a fair comparison. Also I think I did specifically point out that '98-'03 Honda V6 transmissions should be avoided though there are a handful you can use such as any that were RWD.

But back to what you were saying yes some German/European cars can be horrifically expensive. In my experience they're often Mercedes or BMW cars and most often their MSRP was well into the 6 figure range. Older high end BMW's mid-late 90s also have an astounding amount of electronics that are outdated and EOL. Flip down the rear seat in an older 7-series and stand in awe of the circuits and the massive clusterfuk of wiring. Those are the types of things you want to avoid. The newer stuff doesn't have that same level of complexity. That said buying what was a $100,000+ car on a shoestring budget is stupid.

While the old cars had more copper wiring for all the circuits, the new cars just condense that into electrical circuits with similar reliability. Europoors just don't know how to do electronics properly.

What has your experience been?

To the OP an LS400 should be fine. Make sure it has clean records and that a mechanic you trust looks it over. ANY car can be abused and busted before its time. I know a guy who eats clutches. But he knows how to drive! That he rides the clutch longer than a cowboy rides a bull can't possibly be the issue.

I have an LS400 and while it's a fairly reliable engine/drivetrain, the gauge cluster will fail and while the fix is fairly cheap, it's hard to say if OP wants to go through the effort of fixing it. The fix is basically replacing all the capacitors on the circuit board, buying a "new" cluster won't fix anything because they ALL have the defect. Transmission "clunk" has been attributed to a variety of causes either by dirty IACV or electrical grounds in the trunk or best of all, bad electrolytic capacitors in the computer's ECU. Low idle, also caused by bad capacitors in computer's ECU.

 

[matty67]

Fun you mentioned your VWs have manual transmissions because for those cars, their automatic transmissions are pathetic.




You can't compare reliability of your manual transmission VW cars with the automatic transmissions of the Honda as that's never a fair comparison. Also I think I did specifically point out that '98-'03 Honda V6 transmissions should be avoided though there are a handful you can use such as any that were RWD.


While the old cars had more copper wiring for all the circuits, the new cars just condense that into electrical circuits with similar reliability. Europoors just don't know how to do electronics properly.



I have an LS400 and while it's a fairly reliable engine/drivetrain, the gauge cluster will fail and while the fix is fairly cheap, it's hard to say if OP wants to go through the effort of fixing it. The fix is basically replacing all the capacitors on the circuit board, buying a "new" cluster won't fix anything because they ALL have the defect. Transmission "clunk" has been attributed to a variety of causes either by dirty IACV or electrical grounds in the trunk or best of all, bad electrolytic capacitors in the computer's ECU. Low idle, also caused by bad capacitors in computer's ECU.

I've never seen a VR6 with an automatic. I'm sure they exist but a small car is always better with a stick. My Preludes were both stick. Aside from having odd ratios they were okay. It was the other driveline components I had problems with. Especially 4WS parts which were a complete nightmare. If you're saying you can't compare automatics and manuals then it's hardly fair to compare a Toyota with anything German. The average Toyota is a stripper Camry or Corolla - manual windows, locks, mirrors, etc etc.

Also what are you talking about with RWD Honda automatics? The only RWD Honda in that era was the S2000 a car that never had an auto and never had a V6. The NSX had an auto option but they're not common at all. Neither would be a budget car.

Gauge clusters seem to be problematic with many vehicles today. That's why the maintenance is important. It's possible that by this time the cluster has been repaired or something. Buying a car on the cheap (3k is cheap) and wanting to keep it on the road not just flip into another 3k ride means you have to pay attention to maintenance and known issues otherwise you risk a surprise bill that costs more than or similar to the purchase price.

 

[XavierMace]

JLee's MR2 had lighting issues on his gauge cluster. All 3 of my parents late 90's ES300's have gauge cluster issues. But that has zero effect on the reliability of the car. It's an annoyance to be sure, but the car runs just fine.

In my mind, reliable doesn't mean free from annoyances, it just means you can count on it to get you where you need to go. Between myself and my parents we've had 2 IS's and 5 ES's of various ages, all consistently got you from point A to point B. While the ES is basically just a gussied up Camry, they can be had for quite cheap.

 

[thedarkwolf]

The 5 speed automatic VWs are fine. The 4 speed is junk.

 

[halik]

Are you slow? Any european car made from '98+ is going to be hell to maintain and repair. I'm not saying all euro vehicles before '98 are reliable but after about '98, that's when almost ALL became very expensive/impossible to keep working properly without dumping a fortune into them. The only Volvo's I'd touch are the RWD models, everything else is a future headache. Euro cars are best leased, never owned. The obsession over RWD is wasted because OP is looking for a luxurious, reliable vehicle. Specifically excluding FWD just increases the likelihood of getting an unreliable, expensive
vehicle as FWD are less expensive vehicles.

Statements like the above generally come from Camry/appliance drivers that have never owned anything they talk about...

01 A6 2.7T, put on 40K miles, sold at 147K?, only expense was new secondary air pump and valve cover seal

96 A4 I had in college, starter crapped out, 30K miles sold at 118K or something like that

01 BMW M3, no problem at al 25K miles sold at 75K. More expensive to maintain than the regular fare.

Currently '07 S8 put on ~15K last year, one airshock lost during winter and 04 A4 Cabrio, lost oil level sensor over the 25K miles we've had it so far.