Wake up America!

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I stopped reading here:



I am Christian, Catholic infact. But this statement is just so biased that the OP has really no grasp of reality. Realize the propaganda for what it is. I don't see anybody forcing Christianity on anybody, in fact, it seems to be the reverse. It takes an open mind to realize it, and that's not you!

Stop blaming the "treat gays" thing on Christians. I'm sorry to say, but Atheists generally do not like gays either, in fact, I don't know much of anybody who likes Gays. So is it no wonder they are picked on. It's not a Christian monopoly.

I take it you are gay? It would explain things, as that group loves to fear monger just like the rest of the populace so I suppose you'd need your Christian boogey man.

CA prop 8 polls showed the more religious people were, the more for gasy discrimination they were, overwhelminglyh in favor of it, while IIRC atheists were supportive of equal rights.

You're pretty special though to say right next to each other that 'no one likes gays' and then imply that gays invent any persecution. Are you bigoted as you sound?
 

markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
926
29
91
I stopped reading here:



I am Christian, Catholic infact. But this statement is just so biased that the OP has really no grasp of reality. Realize the propaganda for what it is. I don't see anybody forcing Christianity on anybody, in fact, it seems to be the reverse. It takes an open mind to realize it, and that's not you!

Stop blaming the "treat gays" thing on Christians. I'm sorry to say, but Atheists generally do not like gays either, in fact, I don't know much of anybody who likes Gays. So is it no wonder they are picked on. It's not a Christian monopoly.

I take it you are gay? It would explain things, as that group loves to fear monger just like the rest of the populace so I suppose you'd need your Christian boogey man.

Well deal with it, and more importantly teach your kids about the love and tolerance Christ actually preached and not the fire and brimstone judgment and condemnation born again phony christians spew!

I do apologize for not being clearer in this area, as I am not gay nor am I anti religion. The simple fact though is that if you don't see that a VERY vocal albeit small portion of the religious right wants exactly that, and think it is OK for them to make laws discriminating on folks based on religious tenets then you are not in touch with reality!

You have no idea what my spiritual beliefs are do you? Obviously not. These religious kooks that give Christianity a bad name need to be bred out of existence by teaching future generations the error of these people's example in my opinion. Some of them are every bit as bad as some fundamentalist Arabs who we call terrorists. Grant you most fall a bit short of that simply based on our culture in this country, but there are crackpots who commit acts of terrorism against abortion doctors, or people who get them, among other things. I won't even go into the morality of abortions, but no wrong makes violence against people for doing legally sanctioned things can ever be justifiable.

I believe religion, all religions give millions a needed faith and comfort and most do not practice the evil I see perpetrated on society by the misguided minority. All religions basically center on the golden rule. I disagree vehemently with anyone who tries to tell others their brand is right and all others be damned, but I believe in God and in the golden rule first and foremost. I think that the world need a lot more spirituality, love tolerance and not less, we just need to not close our minds to others who basically agree with us but whose customs we don't understand.

So I apologize on arousing your prejudices and not being clearer, but please try not to make snap decisions based on so little evidence too. I also urge you to try and not dislike gays just because you don't relate. I don't either but I know they do not choose it and so long as they keep it to themselves I believe they deserve every right everyone else does. I think fearing gays are going to corrupt others is ludicrous. It's just a trait like being blue eyed and red headed.

I will probably edit that to be clearer, so that others do not jump to conclusions like you did. Thank you for pointing it out, but please do try to better understand I only am condemning fundamentalist kooks who want to eradicate others who do not believe as they do.
 

markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
926
29
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Thanks UberNeuman, but I truly hope not to keep debating politics here much or often at least. This board has a rep for banning folks very easily and I just don't have the patience or desire to tilt at windmills very often anymore.

I been here a long time discussing computers and technology and plan to stay, this forum though I am already almost completely fed up with, and it is nobody's fault but my own for hoping to be understood and not expecting a lot of friction.
 

markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
926
29
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OK brandonb, I edited the offending paragraph. It didn't take much but I think I am a lot clearer. I actually believe that for most folks who are realistic and put the golden rule first religion is a wonderful thing. (I am a "default catholic" myself, but I'll let you ponder that without further comment.)
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,983
3,330
146
Wake up America!

My most important and inspired writing yet?!?
Wow the political climate in the nation is quickly becoming a horror show. What we actually need is folks willing to look at issues individually and making decisions based on effectiveness and solving problems, not serving a radical agenda left or right.
We need a radical centrist movement. The religious right and the political right want us to accept no regulation on industry, allowing private industry to rip us off with everything from sub prime mortgage and raping the environment, denying environmental responsibility, and keeping the power elite fat and rich.

The extremists of the religious right would like to regulate morality, force Christianity on us, and demonize non Christian or non religious people. They want control over us. They want to treat gays, who are proven to be a genetically different subset of the population, like it is a choice (as if anyone would choose it), and treat them as less than human. They want to start a "christian jihad" against the rest of the world and spread fear and loathing. They have no understanding about Jesus teaching love and tolerance and do not abide with Christ's teachings. Since when is judgment and hatred of other people a Christian tenet? Don’t get me wrong, most religious people are good decent folks, but the extremists make the whole lot frightening. The obnoxious vocal minority that so proudly proclaims to be the “religious right” are seldom really religious or right, they are just sheeple that fear what they don’t understand and hate what they fear. Even so, it is not ours to hate them or condemn them in retaliation, but to try and teach by example, how to really abide by that golden rule!

The radical left would allow too much regulation, an oppressive tax structure, and support this insane trial lawyer system where everyone sues as a get rich scheme. The trouble is the Democrats that purport to stand for the little man are bought off too by different special interest. It is all lunacy from both sides.

And then the right and the left tells good American "moderates" that we stand for nothing and have no morals or beliefs and treat us as if we are stupid.

This is somewhat deserved, as we sit idly by and let radicals with radical agendas do what they will, without standing up for sanity and sense! As a centrist, I stand for balance and taking ideas that work above a party line or agenda. Treating issues individually and working for solutions that work, and not hitching my wagon to one party because of one hot button issue and ignoring the evil corruption behind these people, just because of say a desire to see socialized medicine, or perhaps a belief about a minor issue like abortion. Granted people feel strongly about these issues but in the final analysis, to blindly follow a philosophy that is wrong, just because of a sticking point is wrong. Sometimes tough compromise is the right thing, and someone has to be willing to work towards it.

I didn't like Bush, I don't like Obama and there are things terribly wrong with both, but to believe that either was completely evil and out to destroy their nation is ludicrous! They are more similar than anyone cares to admit. The president though does not wield as much power as the average American believes anyway. Congress, both the house senate are the bad guys and it is because of the lobbyist system. Special interests can buy our elected officials votes and it is wrong! Term limits and an end to lobbyists is essential if this nation is going to be guided by its people or by the money. Money is a tool and is not an evil in and of itself, but the love of it is the root of evil. We do need sensible regulation, not radical agendas. We are served well by many areas of government and we should not demand to pay no taxes, but we neither should be expected to be hurt by the burden.

Answer me this; would you prefer that your doctor be in it primarily for the money he can make off your illness, or to help people and live the essence of the Hippocratic Oath to first do no harm rather than to first make a buck? The whole medicine for profit thing is a fundamentally flawed concept. This is one thing that should be a right and a service and not a business and a privilege of only those who can afford it.

So we need to rise up, and I don't mean angrily, violently, but with peaceful dissent, call your congressmen and women, and demand that they serve our best interests, and be active and be a radical movement for sense and an end to partisan politics. Run for office on these principles if you feel you can make a positive difference! Martin Luther King did more for blacks (and all of us) than a hundred Malcolm Xs and or Reverend Sharptons, or any such men of any race (not to take anything from them, as they do some good despite their flaws). To peacefully resist and respectfully disagree and work together we can make so much more difference than we can with angry protests, tea parties, brandishing weapons! Treat each other with respect and tolerance, yet stand up for the people's best interests, and we can achieve so much! Teach each other things we know in our hearts as right, don't preach from mountain tops with arrogance, this is what I believe is our only hope. Be willing and open to learn where others are right too, we can take our country back without anger and strife, but with respect and openness. Nobody likes to be told “I am right, do it my way and shut up”, but everyone likes to learn new things that make everyone better off without judgment or condescension.

I have expressed strong ideas here, I am no better than any of you and I don't have every answer, but some of what I say I know in my heart is right on the mark and I think if we all open our minds and hearts to such concepts we know deep down that it is right. I am not on a mountain top and I am wrong sometimes, but we know, deep down what is right and wrong, but when we need to talk ourselves into out positions on things, when we need to convince ourselves with complex arguments that we are right are we not surely astray?

It is my sincere belief that the fundamental idea of God (and in my mind it just stands for good orderly direction, and the connection of all living things in spirit, does not deny nor confirm any religions, so long as the people preach love and not hate) is deep within every person and only can be found in our hearts and spirits. Sure some supposed "men of god" or religion are self serving with evil agendas, but others of those very same religions know about love and tolerance of our fellow man and doing right by others the best they can. I personally know wonderful people who are everything from atheists, to Christians to Muslims, Taoists and Buddhists, even Hindus, that all have this concept down. We need to look at the similarities and not the differences in my opinion. The golden rule is essentially all that matters. "The Spirit" of benevolence is within us all and can be obscured by calamity, pomp or worship of other things, but it is in all of us, that conscience, that subtle voice in our hearts that tells us right from wrong, and it is only selfish will when we go against it.

Well I have said my peace and feel much better for having done so. Just try to walk a mile in the other guy's shoes before you judge too harshly and follow that golden rule. I hope some of you who read this got something good from it, but I did and that is what matters most to me.

May the universe bless you all with that which I want for myself; love for my existence and all those about me, understanding and enlightenment? Have wonderful holidays all of you!

-One simple American man, no better or worse than any of you….

Damn... I agree with you completely. I've never said that in p&n before.
 

markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
926
29
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You know CADsortaGUY, I told you I am not playing your game. I hardly even care except to not be misunderstood in what I say for the sake of others willing to listen and not knee jerk and just argue. I do want to clarify one thing and ask you a question I don't believe you have any satisfactory answer for. Quite candidly I would really like to know if I am being objective in this area and am totally OK with examples of things I am unaware of, but I am not optimistic that there is any evidence of this

....Ah yes, more wailing about a Republican you don't like while ignoring the same type of stuff from the Democrats....

Bachmann and a select bunch hardcore neocon Republican congressmen and women are going to the extreme of calling Obama and current Democrats communists, socialists, and even sometimes traitors. They are trying to incite upheaval and lying and fear mongering to accomplish this aim. Granted most of the elected officials dance on the fine line mostly, but the pundits and talking points make it quite plain, that this is a coordinated group effort to demonize the opposition and promote fear. They even call others in their party RINOs (Republican in name only for those unfamilliar with the term).

Show me anywhere Democrats are calling Republicans fascists nazis, traitors, namely any kind of slanderous fear mongering directed toward the right to anything near the level their counterparts on the right are rabidly doing?

Dems may have different kinds of faults and corruption, but Conservatives wrote the book on negative campaigns, demonizing and slandering the opposition, almost as if it is a large percentage and actual relevant part of their platform. (Hey look at those horrible demoniacs! "I am different (in ways I won't even bother to make public) so trust me to lead!"

I'd go so far as to say dems are a little bit guilty of the same, but I defy you to convince any reasonable person that isn't a self described conservative that liberals do this to such extremes or nearly as often?

If I could compile campaign ads I could definitively and overwhelmingly prove this point by preponderance of the evidence if I even thought it would help anyone see the light, and had the means to do it or cared enough to bother.

I'll be waiting for anyone to show me provable examples that refute my point.
 
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2L84U

Junior Member
Dec 20, 2009
8
0
0
markjs, It doesn't mater to me what you call yourself or what your beliefs are, however after reading your OP and most of your responces I ask that you know one thing, know yourself.

I am hopefull you will understand what I am trying to say without being offended.

Before I go any further I would like to congradulate your efforts to follow the AA/NA 12 step program. I realize some of the things you learn in the program can be hard to apply, and even (at times) seem to change as you progress throughout the program. This, above all else, is why I am responding to you.

It appears to me you are not following the rules you have already mentioned. The indignant and insulting tone of your responce to CADsortaGUY sounds like you want to be right and wont be happy unless you are, also you are taking your own and his opinion quite seriously. I don't know if it will help you, but maybe you need to ask yourself what those rules really mean.


Everyone is different, and thats a good thing if you can learn from those differences, however what I find all to often is that people agree but dont question, oppose but dont explain, hear but dont listen. Again I hope you understand without being offended, but I have to tell you that a lot (not all) of your posts (in my view) was cluttered with ideas that you adopted with little question, opposition you couldnt defend, all based on things you heard without really listening to the message. Just because you conveniently stuck it into "politically correct" speak and consider yourself a self proclaimed "moderate" doesn't make it right (or wrong).


All you have done so far is state your opinion, but then again your self proclaimed "moderate" views appear to be more of a way to deflect opposition (the pain) of having someone challange your views. Don't be afraid to have a stance, some will agree and stand with you, others will disagree and either try to intimidate, demean or educate.


The real question is if you disagree with someone what will you do? educate/be educated or resort to intimidation and demeaning responces. I believe reasonable people can already see the choice you made. What kind of responce do you think you gave to those with opposing opinions? (does any of this sound familiar "....Typical partisan BS...." or "another piece of BS I expect out of a right winger").


I have doubts you can accept my opinion without being offended, even though that was not my intent. If you where offended please for your sake, talk to your sponsor, find a meeting, anything to help you understand how to accept what I wrote or to let it go. The last thing I want is for you to hold in any frustration/anger that could cause a relapse.


Good luck with your program and have a Merry Christmas.
 
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markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
926
29
91
markjs, It doesn't mater to me what you call yourself or what your beliefs are, however after reading your OP and most of your responces I ask that you know one thing, know yourself.

I am hopefull you will understand what I am trying to say without being offended.

Before I go any further I would like to congradulate your efforts to follow the AA/NA 12 step program. I realize some of the things you learn in the program can be hard to apply, and even (at times) seem to change as you progress throughout the program. This, above all else, is why I am responding to you.

It appears to me you are not following the rules you have already mentioned. The indignant and insulting tone of your responce to CADsortaGUY sounds like you want to be right and wont be happy unless you are, also you are taking your own and his opinion quite seriously. I don't know if it will help you, but maybe you need to ask yourself what those rules really mean.


Everyone is different, and thats a good thing if you can learn from those differences, however what I find all to often is that people agree but dont question, oppose but dont explain, hear but dont listen. Again I hope you understand without being offended, but I have to tell you that a lot (not all) of your posts (in my view) was cluttered with ideas that you adopted with little question, opposition you couldnt defend, all based on things you heard without really listening to the message. Just because you conveniently stuck it into "politically correct" speak and consider yourself a self proclaimed "moderate" doesn't make it right (or wrong).


All you have done so far is state your opinion, but then again your self proclaimed "moderate" views appear to be more of a way to deflect opposition (the pain) of having someone challange your views. Don't be afraid to have a stance, some will agree and stand with you, others will disagree and either try to intimidate, demean or educate.


The real question is if you disagree with someone what will you do? educate/be educated or resort to intimidation and demeaning responces. I believe reasonable people can already see the choice you made. What kind of responce do you think you gave to those with opposing opinions? (does any of this sound familiar "....Typical partisan BS...." or "another piece of BS I expect out of a right winger").


I have doubts you can accept my opinion without being offended, even though that was not my intent. If you where offended please for your sake, talk to your sponsor, find a meeting, anything to help you understand how to accept what I wrote or to let it go. The last thing I want is for you to hold in any frustration/anger that could cause a relapse.


Good luck with your program and have a Merry Christmas.

I'm not offended at all, but the only thing I really agree with is that I am too prone to going on the offensive, when someone comes at me on the offensive, and part of that even is my passionately held beliefs, , that are not up for debate, and flair for over passionate language, but I know it is futile to try and defend one's beliefs from those who insist on disagreeing and seeking out differences and attacking them. I can defend my beliefs just fine, I just don't have any desire to. What is the point in defending opinions which inherently in and of themselves cannot be right or wrong? My only true desire was be understood, and make myself a better person writing these things for my own benefit and those who can benefit from what I said is just gravy.

I get really annoyed that folks want to deny the middle though. Most of this country are moderates and one can be just as passionate about that. These are the people who actually keep the radicals in check. I have explained my position all I can.

I appreciate your desire to be understood but the repeated statements that you doubt I can appreciate it, are counter productive, and come off as condescending. I know myself well, and there is no anger in me at what you said, but you did it in a pretty lame way I think. Applauding my sobriety is great, but I don't feel it is anything I shouldn't have been doing long ago on one hand, but on the other, even that can be mistaken as being talked down to, though I didn't take that personally, and usually don't.

I have experienced a lot of disdain for 12 step programs from folks who clearly don't even begin to understand them, and I applaud that nobody has gone there though. Attraction rather than promotion is out motto and this ain't the forum for that!

The things I present here are ideals we all fall short of all the time, especially if we are debating in a political forum online.

Have a good one, I need to break from my computer's gravitational pull!
 

2L84U

Junior Member
Dec 20, 2009
8
0
0
I dont always comunicate my point well, so I was glad you took it the way you did.

I know you have strong beliefs, we all do, my point was that it takes a lot of disipline to actually listen to opposing viewpoints and consider that your own beliefs could be wrong. Most...no change that to everyone, has varying amount of dificulty doing this, so we all need to make an effort to improve in this respect if we want to learn how to be better as a country and a people.

Some of your talking points I disagree with, maybe even more than some :) and I actually enjoy a little civil discord but if you have no desire to debate/defend then there is nothing I can learn from you, and sadly probably nothing you can learn from others.

Cant say I went through the entire 12 steps but I did attend AA for a time and have a lot of respect for those that keep the program going especially the ones that become sponsors.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
First of all Nice post 2l84u...

As for the OP's post.


Yeah, well, it's just another take. As for the religious BS? Yeah, it's just that...

Part of being human is to try to make your claims the biggest and if you have to step on a bunch of people to keep your greed and money flowing in so be it.

Tho, some people learn that it's best just to share and take what you need. Most people don't get this concept. Chop down more trees, burn up more oil. The more and faster I get $$$$ the better it seems. People take the same extreme with religion. Power is everything and the NEED to WANT more... more more... Is everything to these people. I want 20 acres and macmansion on a hill side with a 5 care garage etc...etc... My church needs to be 50 football fields long with everyone agreeing what I tell them.

Blah...blah...blah... you get the point. It's impossible to change anyone, they have to first want to change themselves. I found your post too gray. Too soft, and it will never really work here.

Religion and Government is too powerful. So, just join with your fellow mates and pretend you don't know. Isn't dumb'ing down america just grand? I agree with what you have said to a certain extent, but I don't agree it's going to change anyone or anything.

Good Luck tho! You will certainly need it.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,679
54,678
136
I stopped reading here:



I am Christian, Catholic infact. But this statement is just so biased that the OP has really no grasp of reality. Realize the propaganda for what it is. I don't see anybody forcing Christianity on anybody, in fact, it seems to be the reverse. It takes an open mind to realize it, and that's not you!

Stop blaming the "treat gays" thing on Christians. I'm sorry to say, but Atheists generally do not like gays either, in fact, I don't know much of anybody who likes Gays. So is it no wonder they are picked on. It's not a Christian monopoly.

I take it you are gay? It would explain things, as that group loves to fear monger just like the rest of the populace so I suppose you'd need your Christian boogey man.

Uhmmm, many many studies over many years have established an undeniable link between religious belief and anti-gay attitudes. The more religious you are, the more likely you are to be anti-gay, and in America that usually means Christian.
 

brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
5,499
2
0
the OP basically sums up my opinions, as well as a likely fairly large amount of other people here.

unfortunately, we're all labeled the loony socialist left by the extremist religious right who have already shown themselves in this thread...
 

xenolith

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2000
1,588
0
76
Show me anywhere Democrats are calling Republicans fascists nazis, traitors, namely any kind of slanderous fear mongering directed toward the right to anything near the level their counterparts on the right are rabidly doing?

Pelosi calls healthcare opponents NAZIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGRUx2b0ArM

Democrat Alan Grayson says Republicans want you to die quickly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfco

Protesters comparing President (Bush) to Hitler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X5oPBDe7uI

Fear-mongering documentary accusing there is a Bush Nazi lineage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8AdSHKywEU

Liberal fear mongering at its finest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OLns6-s4ws

/just a sampling

You had to have been living in a cave somewhere in the Afghanistan mountains for the last nine years if you never noticed the wide-spread groundless, slanderous fear-mongering presented by much of the hollywood left and 911-truthers... to which many liberals hold up to high esteem (but would never admit doing so.)
 
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markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
926
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Pelosi calls healthcare opponents NAZIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGRUx2b0ArM

Democrat Alan Grayson says Republicans want you to die quickly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfco

Protesters comparing President (Bush) to Hitler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X5oPBDe7uI

Fear-mongering documentary accusing there is a Bush Nazi lineage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8AdSHKywEU

Liberal fear mongering at its finest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OLns6-s4ws

/just a sampling

You had to have been living in a cave somewhere in the Afghanistan mountains for the last nine years if you never noticed the groundless, slanderous fear-mongering presented much of the hollywood left and 911-truthers... to which many liberals hold up to high esteem (but would never admit doing so.)

Not one of your examples is of an elected official that rises even close to what I was talking about and you know it....

FAIL!

Next?
 

markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
926
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Both sides exaggerate, and employ propaganda tactics, but Republican congress men and women want Obama gone, by ANY means necessary and increasingly show it publicly on a daily escalating basis.

I was asking to be shown Democrat elected officials doing anything even close to what Bachmann and her cronies are up to and your examples are weak and a huge stretch aimed to justify your side's actions.

None of the Bush protesters were carrying guns to any protests or indicated any where the level of Hate right wingers do daily since Obama's election. Stop closing your eyes to your side's extremism and, trying to justify it with weak comparisons to the other side. Wake the hell up!

I hear right wingers asking for his assassination almost daily. You never saw anything like this against any sitting president and you all know it! It's just that some of you are so married to right wing extremism, and blinded by your hate, that you refuse to see how bad it is getting. God help us all!
 
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xenolith

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2000
1,588
0
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Both sides exaggerate, and employ propaganda tactics, but Republican congress men and women want Obama gone, by ANY means necessary and increasingly show it publicly on a daily escalating basis.

I was asking to be shown Democrat elected officials doing anything even close to what Bachmann and her cronies are up to and your examples are weak and a huge stretch aimed to justify your side's actions.

None of the Bush protesters were carrying guns to any protests or indicated any where the level of Hate right wingers do daily since Obama's election. Stop closing your eyes to your side's extremism and, trying to justify it with weak comparisons to the other side. Wake the hell up!

I hear right wingers asking for his assassination almost daily. You never saw anything like this against any sitting president and you all know it! It's just that some of you are so married to right wing extremism, and blinded by your hate, that you refuse to see how bad it is getting. God help us all!

Bachmann and other conservatives are asking for Obama's assassination?

Proof please?
 
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markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
926
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There I go again buying in to nonsense, and arguing with idiots!

I don't mean you are idiots personally in any way that denotes intelligence, and I am not aiming it to anyone here so much as that I mean a blanket statement to all of us who willfully ignore the level of hatred aimed at Obama. It is willful ignorance, and I call the lot of people who try to maintain these beliefs idiots only in that it is an idiotic position to take!

If you take what I say personally it is on you, and I don't care to argue about it, I just beg of you to try and stop and look at this objectively before the whole damn country is in flaming ruins!
 

markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
926
29
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Bachmann and other conservatives are asking for Obama's assassination?

Proof please?

Just do a search of Bachmann on You tube, there is the evidence against her. Of course no elected official can publicly call for that, I have tea baggers saying that shit nearly every day though. You just aren't listening IMHO if you don't
 

markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
926
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If you can listen to Bachmann in her own words and not hear it I truly pity you, whoever you are!
 

xenolith

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2000
1,588
0
76
Just do a search of Bachmann on You tube, there is the evidence against her. Of course no elected official can publicly call for that, I have tea baggers saying that shit nearly every day though. You just aren't listening IMHO if you don't

Sorry that's not good enough... you have to bring proof here when you make such an inflamatory statement.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Both sides exaggerate, and employ propaganda tactics, but Republican congress men and women want Obama gone, by ANY means necessary and increasingly show it publicly on a daily escalating basis.

I was asking to be shown Democrat elected officials doing anything even close to what Bachmann and her cronies are up to and your examples are weak and a huge stretch aimed to justify your side's actions.

None of the Bush protesters were carrying guns to any protests or indicated any where the level of Hate right wingers do daily since Obama's election. Stop closing your eyes to your side's extremism and, trying to justify it with weak comparisons to the other side. Wake the hell up!

I hear right wingers asking for his assassination almost daily. You never saw anything like this against any sitting president and you all know it! It's just that some of you are so married to right wing extremism, and blinded by your hate, that you refuse to see how bad it is getting. God help us all!

If I had needed any more evidence for what I posted in response to your OP - this would surely be it. Clearly you have a short memory as the protesters against Bush were by far worse on the "hate" scale - you(as well as others on the left) just don't want to admit it because you don't like your boy getting beat up.
Yes, there are fringe elements of the right that have made stupid comments but for you or the rest of the left to come in here and try to claim "I hear right wingers asking for his assassination almost daily" is the height of hackery and dishonesty.
Speaking of dishonesty, I was going to be nice and let all your previous whining about being challenged go(you called it attacked) but it's pretty clear that it was all just a bunch of BS anyway as you clearly aren't the "moderate" you try to claim to be. Any real "moderate" or politically engaged person with their eyes actually open would not be saying the things you are saying...but meh, par for the course here in P&N. We seem to have people like you come strolling in here from time to time claiming to be "centrist" or "moderate" but in due time their true colors always seem to shine through. One last thing before you make a further ASS of yourself - this is not a R/D thing and nothing in my post is partisan or about party - it's ideology - you are not what you claim to be.
 
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markjs

Senior member
Sep 4, 2000
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Sorry that's not good enough... you have to bring proof here when you make such an inflamatory statement.

Why, you don't?

I gave you the evidence on Bachmann, but I know you will not even look at it, Typical!