Wait for Zen on 12nm LP?

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What should I do?

  • Wait for Zen 2

    Votes: 8 17.8%
  • Upgrade to Ryzen now

    Votes: 20 44.4%
  • Upgrade to AM4 but with a cheap Bristol ridge Athlon

    Votes: 1 2.2%
  • Upgrade to Ryzen now, skip Ryzen on 12nm, wait for Ryzen on 7nm

    Votes: 16 35.6%

  • Total voters
    45

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,272
0
106
#26
Okay I am giving this thread a long overdue update. A lot has happened!

Some of you might have seen my RMA thread.

What happened is that I was building this PC on Monday night. And I just could not get it to POST. I tried everything - I removed all but one DIMM, I disconnected all devices, I removed and reseated the ATX 12V CPU power connector, I removed and reseated the 24 pin motherboard power connector, I removed and reseated the graphics card and its 8 pin power cable. I tried everything. Nothing would come up on my screen. I worked on it for something like over an hour before I gave up.

In the process of doing that, I lifted up the case while the HDMI cable was still in the graphics card. I hit the HDMI cable on my TV stand hard enough to pull the HDMI connector out of the cable. You can imagine the curse words that I used. I still continued to try, but now worried that I had damaged my graphics card too.

The next morning, I took it to the online shop where I purchased everything. Luckily they were close by, else I would have had a real problem. They said, oh your motherboard BIOS is out of date and that is why the board will not POST - it does not yet support your memory. But, still no POST. I mentioned the graphics card damage, and the guy swapped it out for a GTX 1060. Suddenly the PC posted (with his memory of course). So, he did the BIOS update, and swapped out his memory for my memory. Still posted. Swapped out his GPU for my GPU - no POST. Tried different connectors - no POST. Still.

At this point I was convinced that my GPU was now toast because of the knock it received. So I packaged it up and sent it back for an RMA (unfortunately not the same shop where I had purchased the new stuff). They tested it over a day or so, and found no problems, so my GPU is fine. They have sent it back to me and I will get it next week.

Right now, I am posting this from my new Ryzen PC, which I will say feels so much snappier than my old Thuban. I am using a friend's GTX 1070. And, am currently running a memory test to find out if my settings are stable.

The one negative thing I will say about the Ryzen platform is that everyone (well us enthusiasts) know that higher DRAM frequencies are required for getting the best performance. But, actually getting those frequencies, even with a good quality motherboard and good quality memory, is not easy. Right now, I am using my G Skill FlareX at 2933, 1.35V (could even be 1.375V, can't really remember) and 16-16-16-36. I haven't been able to get 3200 to be stable. It boots into windows, but I get memory errors fairly quickly. I haven't played with the SOC voltage.

So, Ryzen and memory are not friends. Not sure how it is on the Intel side of the fence.
 

repoman0

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2010
2,474
105
136
#27
Okay I am giving this thread a long overdue update. A lot has happened!

Some of you might have seen my RMA thread.

What happened is that I was building this PC on Monday night. And I just could not get it to POST. I tried everything - I removed all but one DIMM, I disconnected all devices, I removed and reseated the ATX 12V CPU power connector, I removed and reseated the 24 pin motherboard power connector, I removed and reseated the graphics card and its 8 pin power cable. I tried everything. Nothing would come up on my screen. I worked on it for something like over an hour before I gave up.

In the process of doing that, I lifted up the case while the HDMI cable was still in the graphics card. I hit the HDMI cable on my TV stand hard enough to pull the HDMI connector out of the cable. You can imagine the curse words that I used. I still continued to try, but now worried that I had damaged my graphics card too.

The next morning, I took it to the online shop where I purchased everything. Luckily they were close by, else I would have had a real problem. They said, oh your motherboard BIOS is out of date and that is why the board will not POST - it does not yet support your memory. But, still no POST. I mentioned the graphics card damage, and the guy swapped it out for a GTX 1060. Suddenly the PC posted (with his memory of course). So, he did the BIOS update, and swapped out his memory for my memory. Still posted. Swapped out his GPU for my GPU - no POST. Tried different connectors - no POST. Still.

At this point I was convinced that my GPU was now toast because of the knock it received. So I packaged it up and sent it back for an RMA (unfortunately not the same shop where I had purchased the new stuff). They tested it over a day or so, and found no problems, so my GPU is fine. They have sent it back to me and I will get it next week.

Right now, I am posting this from my new Ryzen PC, which I will say feels so much snappier than my old Thuban. I am using a friend's GTX 1070. And, am currently running a memory test to find out if my settings are stable.

The one negative thing I will say about the Ryzen platform is that everyone (well us enthusiasts) know that higher DRAM frequencies are required for getting the best performance. But, actually getting those frequencies, even with a good quality motherboard and good quality memory, is not easy. Right now, I am using my G Skill FlareX at 2933, 1.35V (could even be 1.375V, can't really remember) and 16-16-16-36. I haven't been able to get 3200 to be stable. It boots into windows, but I get memory errors fairly quickly. I haven't played with the SOC voltage.

So, Ryzen and memory are not friends. Not sure how it is on the Intel side of the fence.
Try setting your timings manually -- search for the_stilt's Samsung b-die timings if you have 3200/14-14-14 ram. I found a post with a few sets of settings on overclock.net but I'm sure it's here too. The bonus is that those timings are faster than the automatic ones as well. And change your SoC voltage to 1.1. I bet you can get it to work at rated speeds with some fiddling.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,272
0
106
#28
I do have 14-14-14 RAM. I had a look at my motherboard and my SOC voltage is already at 1.1V.

I'm tired of fiddling for now. 2933 is good enough for now. Maybe I'll wait for a few more BIOSes to be released before I try again.

EDIT: This is the kit I have.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,272
0
106
#30
Other than overclocking the memory to 2933, no I don't overclock. I will be using the CPU at stock settings. That is why I bought the 1600X over the 1600 - if I was going to overclock, I would have just bought the 1600.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,272
0
106
#31
Slight update on this. I was able to get the memory to run at 3200 at 14-14-14-34 timings.

All I had to do was bump the SOC voltage from 0.793V to 1.1V. It might be able to run at less than that. I tried 1.0V and it didn't work, but 1.1V was fine.

Are there any negative consequences to running with SOC voltage at 1.1V? I mean, will it shorten the lifespan of any components?
 
Aug 16, 2017
29
0
36
#32
AFAIK 1.1V for SoC should be safe.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
3,063
336
136
#33
Slight update on this. I was able to get the memory to run at 3200 at 14-14-14-34 timings.

All I had to do was bump the SOC voltage from 0.793V to 1.1V. It might be able to run at less than that. I tried 1.0V and it didn't work, but 1.1V was fine.
I think you're still bottlenecked by your current motherboard configuration. We have another user in the Ryzen builder thread who cannot get his 3200 CL16 kit to work at nominal frequency on the same board as yours. Meanwhile, using the same 3200 C16 kit in my system, I was able to make it fully functional by just enabling A-XMP. Even SOC voltage is left on auto (software reports 0.836V right now). I was previously in the same situation as you, could not go past 2933 (even SOC voltage @ 1.1V did not help).

So my take is what you're doing right now is somehow applying brute force to get 3200 C14 stable on your system (which is fine, you're still in the safe zone), but after the next BIOS update for that Asus Prime X370 Pro you will likely see the situation improve significantly.

My motherboard is the MSI B350 Mortar, and the last BIOS update from 19/09 mentioned update to AGESA 1.0.0.6B and improved memory compatibility. The last ASUS update is from 18/09 and only lists the AGESA update. Hang in there :)
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,272
0
106
#34
I think you're probably right. Obviously Asus has done some work on improving memory compatibility but it sounds like they are not there yet. Hopefully soon I will be able to drop the SOC voltage lower, I don't really like having it raised so much. I'm even considering going back to 2933 and dropping the SOC voltage again.
 
Feb 6, 2011
1,768
78
136
#35
I think you're probably right. Obviously Asus has done some work on improving memory compatibility but it sounds like they are not there yet. Hopefully soon I will be able to drop the SOC voltage lower, I don't really like having it raised so much. I'm even considering going back to 2933 and dropping the SOC voltage again.
Don't think 1.1 soc voltage I'd a big deal I remember rob hallock from amd recommending it as the first thing you do when trying to up memory speed.
 

IRobot23

Senior member
Jul 3, 2017
600
18
76
#37
Slight update on this. I was able to get the memory to run at 3200 at 14-14-14-34 timings.

All I had to do was bump the SOC voltage from 0.793V to 1.1V. It might be able to run at less than that. I tried 1.0V and it didn't work, but 1.1V was fine.

Are there any negative consequences to running with SOC voltage at 1.1V? I mean, will it shorten the lifespan of any components?
What is your CPU overclock?
 

IEC

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
13,517
262
136
#39
I think you're probably right. Obviously Asus has done some work on improving memory compatibility but it sounds like they are not there yet. Hopefully soon I will be able to drop the SOC voltage lower, I don't really like having it raised so much. I'm even considering going back to 2933 and dropping the SOC voltage again.
1.175V or something like that is the default for 3200+ on Threadripper.

My Gigabyte X370 Gaming K7 board defaults to 1.225V vSOC for 3200+.

I would be completely unworried about 1.1V.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,272
0
106
#41
I though you tried by now. Please let me know when you do.
As I said before, I don't overclock. What I should have perhaps said is that I don't do CPU overclocking. So, I will more than likely never overclock this CPU.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,272
0
106
#42
I thought I'd give an update here instead of my RMA thread since this relates to general computer upgrading possibilities.

I am currently borrowing a friend's GTX 1070 so at least I can use my PC and game. In the meantime, I have put my RX480 up for sale, with no buyers so far. Unfortunately the market is not great right now - prices of cards are dropping as people are getting out of the crypto mining business, so I'm not seeing a lot of interest on my card.

I still need a new card. I don't really want to buy one, but I don't have much of a choice. Despite the RX480 being confirmed to work in both my old motherboard and also in the vendor's test PC, it still does not work in my AM4 board. I can't borrow this 1070 forever so I have to buy a new card.

Interestingly, I decided to put my RX480 into the 2nd PCI express slot of my new motherboard, with the 1070 in the primary slot, to see if it would work. It works fine, I can even mine with it. Does not prevent POST at all. I cannot use it to drive a display though. I can only plug the HDMI cable into the 1070, not the 480 otherwise it does not work. Again, the 480 works perfectly in my old PC.

So, putting everything together, I am going to buy a new 8GB graphics card of some kind. I am leaning towards RX Vega 64 LC, which has come down in price a lot recently and is now in the range where I would consider it. What I will do is buy it from the same place that I bought my motherboard, CPU and RAM. That way, if the graphics card does not work in the motherboard, for whatever reason, I can take the whole thing back to them, because then the graphics card and motherboard are from the same vendor and MUST work. There can be no excuses this time. If everything plays together happily, then fine, apart from the fact that I was forced to upgrade earlier than I wanted to.

I could buy an RX580 8GB instead of an RX Vega 64. They are of course much, much cheaper, which is quite attractive. If I'm completely 100% honest, I am more of a hardware enthusiast than I am a gamer. So, for the rare times that I actually play a game, the RX Vega is actually a bit of a waste. But, I want one anyway.

I do know that, whatever graphics card I choose, it will eventually pay for itself even if it now takes 12 months as opposed to 3 months. So in theory, I might as well go with RX Vega because it will make playing on a 4K TV much more playable. I would not have to run games at 1080p.

However.... if I plan to buy RX Vega 64 and run that card in the same machine as my RX480, then I will likely need to upgrade my PSU, which is only a 550W PSU. I would probably need something in the region of a 750W PSU. Which of course adds to the expense.
 

Ancalagon44

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,272
0
106
#43
I think what I am going to do is just buy my friend's 1070. It really makes the most sense.

It works perfectly in my machine, it is decent at mining, it won't break the bank. And it can run games at 4K, okay not great but well enough for my purposes.

I do have an AMD bias, but you know what, not the end of the world.

Then perhaps next year I can upgrade to Vega on 12nm.
 
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