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Question Wait for one or two generations?

ZowieR

Member
Apr 4, 2020
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In principle, I plan to wait and buy a new computer for a new generation, so that it will be relevant for as long as possible.

What I have today is pretty old and it's also one of the reasons I'm waiting ...

Now, is there any chance that by the end of 2020 it will be possible to buy Ryzen's next generation processors + new boards and video cards?

I also realized that just a year after AMD was going to spend a new generation with another resident, and probably would come with DDR5 as well.

The thing is that the DDR5 will also be a new transition and I am looking for this significant transition.

Today I have a DDR3, not is it that every year there is a new DDR on the market.



what do you think?
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,864
5,337
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Well, personally, I don't expect (at least their consumer CPUs, not sure about their server ones) to utilize DDR5 yet, not until 2021 at the earliest.

Might as well pick up a (fairly cheap) B450 board and a Ryzen R5 3600 CPU (6C/12T Zen2 CPU), some DDR4-3600 RAM (16-32GB), and an NVMe SSD, and a GPU, and ride things out until then, if you're still on a DDR3 rig.
 
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ZowieR

Member
Apr 4, 2020
27
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Well, personally, I don't expect (at least their consumer CPUs, not sure about their server ones) to utilize DDR5 yet, not until 2021 at the earliest.

Might as well pick up a (fairly cheap) B450 board and a Ryzen R5 3600 CPU (6C/12T Zen2 CPU), some DDR4-3600 RAM (16-32GB), and an NVMe SSD, and a GPU, and ride things out until then, if you're still on a DDR3 rig.
how much DDR4 is on the market?
 

chrisjames61

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
630
350
136
In principle, I plan to wait and buy a new computer for a new generation, so that it will be relevant for as long as possible.

What I have today is pretty old and it's also one of the reasons I'm waiting ...

Now, is there any chance that by the end of 2020 it will be possible to buy Ryzen's next generation processors + new boards and video cards?

I also realized that just a year after AMD was going to spend a new generation with another resident, and probably would come with DDR5 as well.

The thing is that the DDR5 will also be a new transition and I am looking for this significant transition.

Today I have a DDR3, not is it that every year there is a new DDR on the market.



what do you think?

Waiting for "new" generations of anything is a fools game for a number of reasons. If you need something buy what is available today. Any good AM4 Ryzen build will last a long time.
 

ZowieR

Member
Apr 4, 2020
27
0
11
Waiting for "new" generations of anything is a fools game for a number of reasons. If you need something buy what is available today. Any good AM4 Ryzen build will last a long time.
But we are not got new DDR every year...
and I think it was the end of DDR4 because the DDR5 will come in the next year..
 

moinmoin

Golden Member
Jun 1, 2017
1,784
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But we are not got new DDR every year...
and I think it was the end of DDR4 because the DDR5 will come in the next year..
Since it will be new technology it will be expensive at the beginning and most likely be used in more expensive, higher margin markets like server and mobile first. I don't expect DDR5 to become mainstream for consumer desktops before 2022 if not even later.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,387
5,288
136
Now, is there any chance that by the end of 2020 it will be possible to buy Ryzen's next generation processors + new boards and video cards?
New boards? Maybe. Video cards? Probably Navi2. Next generation CPUs? Yes! Vermeer is coming later this year. That's the Zen3-based 4000-series desktop CPUs (not to be confused with Renoir CPUs that just came out which are Zen2). If you really want to wait, get Zen3.
 

eek2121

Senior member
Aug 2, 2005
656
610
136
I would upgrade when Zen 3 drops. Don’t wait for DDR5. Mainstream DDR5 won’t be available for a while.

You could even upgrade now, but with the lead time on parts and the eventual release of Zen 3, it is better to wait.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
8,812
1,855
136
In principle, I plan to wait and buy a new computer for a new generation, so that it will be relevant for as long as possible.

What I have today is pretty old and it's also one of the reasons I'm waiting ...

Now, is there any chance that by the end of 2020 it will be possible to buy Ryzen's next generation processors + new boards and video cards?

I also realized that just a year after AMD was going to spend a new generation with another resident, and probably would come with DDR5 as well.

The thing is that the DDR5 will also be a new transition and I am looking for this significant transition.

Today I have a DDR3, not is it that every year there is a new DDR on the market.



what do you think?
What is your current system, and what do you plan to use it for? If you're on some old Bulldozer or Phenom II system, I'd say just jump to Zen 2.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
20,615
8,495
136
I would say now. The Ryzen 2 series is now pretty well debugged, and solid, and affordable. Also a little upgradeable. There may only be one more series before DDR5 hits, but since you don;t upgrade often, I am sure this will be fine.
 
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chrisjames61

Senior member
Dec 31, 2013
630
350
136
But we are not got new DDR every year...
and I think it was the end of DDR4 because the DDR5 will come in the next year..
Early DDR4 didn't perform much better than a fast kit of DDR3 iirc. Waiting makes no sense if you actually need to upgrade. There is always something better around the corner.
 

mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
3,348
1,522
96
I would say now. The Ryzen 2 series is now pretty well debugged, and solid, and affordable. Also a little upgradeable. There may only be one more series before DDR5 hits, but since you don;t upgrade often, I am sure this will be fine.
Prob this,i have decided to jump on a 3900x myself soon. Should be tons of fun to mess around with till ddr5 drops. Prob gonna wipe the 3900x all over the place too. Can only imagine how discounted a 3950x will be by then too!

I think the 3000 series is gonna be good enough to hold 60fps in gaming prob till ps6?
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
13,475
2,345
126
I would wait for the Desktop Ryzen 4xxx (ZEN3) that is coming later this year (perhaps June).
DDR-5 is at least 16-18 months away.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
8,959
1,028
126
New RAM tech generally brings hardly any noticeable performance improvement at launch over the prior RAM. The Ryzen 3600 is a great cheap CPU that pretty much can do anything you want it to, pair it with some DDR4-3600 and go. Will be good for quite a few years to come I'd venture.
 
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thigobr

Member
Sep 4, 2016
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I would say upgrade now as well if you need. Just don't get top of the line CPU now (e.g. 3950X) because Zen3 is coming before year ends.
Ryzen 5 3600 or a maybe a 3900X if you have bigger budget are probably your best options.
 

mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
3,348
1,522
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Depends on the resolution. But you'll be within 5% of a stock 9900k in most scenarios. There are things you can do to squeeze more fps out of a 3900x as well.
Rather buy a 3900x before a 9900k any day of the week, believe me the 9900k got my attention for its max fps but i rather have 50% more cores for less then a 9900k......Honestly i think the 3900x are real bargain chips when you consider a 3900x is ballpark 50% more then a 3700x and has 50% more cores. If you add in the fact the 3900x stock cooler is somewhat usable within spec despite the noise, a 3900x build becomes quite a bit more cheaper.

Also the 3900x out of the box boosts higher in some games and apps over a 3700x? I want it cause i hope it becomes the next 2500k, i got one of those in service in a friends rig i gave her in 2012 and that i bought in 2011. She is getting the 7700k and eventually she will land the 3900x. Prob when ddr5 platforms become a thing unless games hold out on 60fps then i will milk it till something crushes it.

I wonder what the biggest downfall of a 3900x will be, its average max all core boost or its ddr4 in the years to come? I doubt its thread count will be a issue. Cpus get so little of a ipc gain generation wise half the time i got no issues sitting on a 3900x till a game decides its IPC/core clock is not relevant enough for 60fps.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
3,294
2,086
136
Rather buy a 3900x before a 9900k any day of the week, believe me the 9900k got my attention for its max fps but i rather have 50% more cores for less then a 9900k......Honestly i think the 3900x are real bargain chips when you consider a 3900x is ballpark 50% more then a 3700x and has 50% more cores. If you add in the fact the 3900x stock cooler is somewhat usable within spec despite the noise, a 3900x build becomes quite a bit more cheaper.

Also the 3900x out of the box boosts higher in some games and apps over a 3700x? I want it cause i hope it becomes the next 2500k, i got one of those in service in a friends rig i gave her in 2012 and that i bought in 2011. She is getting the 7700k and eventually she will land the 3900x. Prob when ddr5 platforms become a thing unless games hold out on 60fps then i will milk it till something crushes it.

I wonder what the biggest downfall of a 3900x will be, its average max all core boost or its ddr4 in the years to come? I doubt its thread count will be a issue. Cpus get so little of a ipc gain generation wise half the time i got no issues sitting on a 3900x till a game decides its IPC/core clock is not relevant enough for 60fps.
Concerning the attachment to the Sandy Bridge generation, I don't think we'll be seeing such a pattern in the CPU market anytime soon.

Pre SB, no one expected a CPU to be very relevant ( close to the market leader) for more than 1 generational jump.

What we forget is the slowdown that happened post SB and this has seemed to teach us a false lesson. The situation we have now is that both Intel and AMD have their accelerator on full, so I expect further significant performance jumps each generation going forward.

Do we realize that Zen 1 to Zen 3 will be close to as big a jump as Piledriver to Zen1?
 

mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
3,348
1,522
96
Concerning the attachment to the Sandy Bridge generation, I don't think we'll be seeing such a pattern in the CPU market anytime soon.

Pre SB, no one expected a CPU to be very relevant ( close to the market leader) for more than 1 generational jump.

What we forget is the slowdown that happened post SB and this has seemed to teach us a false lesson. The situation we have now is that both Intel and AMD have their accelerator on full, so I expect further significant performance jumps each generation going forward.
I can only hope it does pick up speed, bring us back to something like pentium 4 to C2D/C2Q to Nehalem in like 3 years time well i did all those upgrades in that timeframe and justified ALL of them . I wouldn't mind the DDR5 platform assuming its 5000 series that deploys with it just to destroy. I would love any reason to upgrade but it better be a massive upgrade. 30% gains across the board at the very least. Would be like a 90fps game hitting 120 in a cpu bottlenecked situation. Some people upgrade their gpus for that sorta performance increase.

Maybe massive efficiency in the 5000 series or later could on its own warrant a upgrade, not sure if anyone is looking into graphene as possibly being implemented into anything new in the future but it could be awesome?
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
3,294
2,086
136
I can only hope it does pick up speed, bring us back to something like pentium 4 to C2D/C2Q to Nehalem in like 3 years time well i did all those upgrades in that timeframe and justified ALL of them . I wouldn't mind the DDR5 platform assuming its 5000 series that deploys with it just to destroy. I would love any reason to upgrade but it better be a massive upgrade. 30% gains across the board at the very least. Would be like a 90fps game hitting 120 in a cpu bottlenecked situation. Some people upgrade their gpus for that sorta performance increase.

Maybe massive efficiency in the 5000 series or later could on its own warrant a upgrade, not sure if anyone is looking into graphene as possibly being implemented into anything new in the future but it could be awesome?
Well, Keller for one, seems upbeat about no real wall in the near term (10yrs) future, and if anyone should have a very wide overview of what's on the path forward, it should be him.

For the past couple yrs, I've often asked if there was any theoretical reason for IPC to be capped, and if we were close to it. The answer was always IPC is difficult to raise and that Intel was doing the best job possible. We now know that this reasoning was false and that Intel was merely exploiting their dominance to maximize margins. Now, we have a true race, so chuck what we believed out the window. We're in a new era.
 
Last edited:

Thunder 57

Golden Member
Aug 19, 2007
1,516
1,393
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I can only hope it does pick up speed, bring us back to something like pentium 4 to C2D/C2Q to Nehalem in like 3 years time well i did all those upgrades in that timeframe and justified ALL of them . I wouldn't mind the DDR5 platform assuming its 5000 series that deploys with it just to destroy. I would love any reason to upgrade but it better be a massive upgrade. 30% gains across the board at the very least. Would be like a 90fps game hitting 120 in a cpu bottlenecked situation. Some people upgrade their gpus for that sorta performance increase.

Maybe massive efficiency in the 5000 series or later could on its own warrant a upgrade, not sure if anyone is looking into graphene as possibly being implemented into anything new in the future but it could be awesome?
Unless I'm misinterpreting what you are saying, the P4 to Nehalem was 8 years. I guess you meant 3 years between each of those. That still wouldn't be quite right though as P4 to Conroe was 6 years and Conroe to Nehalem was two years.

It would be nice to see those kind of jumps again though, so I get what you mean. Now that Intel can't sit on it's ass, maybe things will progress faster.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,387
5,288
136
Also the 3900x out of the box boosts higher in some games and apps over a 3700x?
It can, yes. My findings are that a default 3900x will sit at around 4.3 GHz in a lot of games. Even old software like TF2 follows that general pattern. A 3700x won't boost that high in games on more than one core, and even that one core won't sit at 4.4 GHz all the time.
 
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mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
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It can, yes. My findings are that a default 3900x will sit at around 4.3 GHz in a lot of games. Even old software like TF2 follows that general pattern.
With 3600 memory, and those clocks it should easily outpace everything Intel but the 9900k for gaming? I plan to fold and game on the chip prob same time at least dedicate 20 threads most of the time to it. Maybe 12 cores if i decide to ultimately game. How much of a damper that will be who knows, i would like to think the platform is so strong that it could handle both without issue.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,387
5,288
136
With 3600 memory, and those clocks it should easily outpace everything Intel but the 9900k for gaming?
It'll probably hang with a 9700k, give or take on some different games. Also remember that you might get some extra FPS in games by actually disabling SMT, which requires a reboot. If you are folding in the background it will drive down clocks regardless.
 

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