Wait a minute, let me get this straight! We **DONT** elect our president?!

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Ok, so the US is semi-democratic?

Not really democratic like Europe where the popular vote wins?

Maybe WE should teach YOU someting about democracy?

It is a Democratic Republic, just like Europe. Our executive is just slightly different than most European countries. For starters, we do not have a parliament. We do use a bicameral legislature; however, since it is not a parliament there is no prime minister, which, in a majority of European countries, is your executive.(at least acting executive, since most European countries also have a figurehead executive)

Our legislature is popularly elected though, with no electoral college type of system.

Also, don't be fooled that we don't elect our president, because we do, it just happens to be through a somewhat flawed system.(just read some of the posts that describe it)

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Ok, so the US is semi-democratic?

Not really democratic like Europe where the popular vote wins?

Maybe WE should teach YOU someting about democracy?

Maybe, but not the European countries that still worship kings and queens.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: warcrow
**DISCLAIMER**

Please, do not flame me for my ignorance. I'm trying to seek out the knowledge now, so comments like "where the hell have you been?" or "do you live under a rock?" are not constructive and will be ignored.


**QUESTIONS**

1) We do not elect the President with our popular vote?
2) Who elects The Electoral college?
3) There are no requirements to become a member of the Eelctoral College?
4) They're not even metnioned in the constitution, so where did they come from?

Thanks in advanced, guys!

I heard about this in 8th grade Civics class. I remember asking if it were possible for a candidate to win the poplular vote but lose the election. The teacher said something like "Nah".

 

[Pepsei]

Yeah, by looking at the system, statistically speaking, a vote in one state is actually worth more than a vote in a different state.

Also, because of the way it is set up, it is really hard to be a republican in california or a democrat in virginia during a presidential election.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Dr Smooth

Originally posted by: warcrow
**DISCLAIMER**

Please, do not flame me for my ignorance. I'm trying to seek out the knowledge now, so comments like "where the hell have you been?" or "do you live under a rock?" are not constructive and will be ignored.


**QUESTIONS**

1) We do not elect the President with our popular vote?
2) Who elects The Electoral college?
3) There are no requirements to become a member of the Eelctoral College?
4) They're not even metnioned in the constitution, so where did they come from?

Thanks in advanced, guys!

I heard about this in 8th grade Civics class. I remember asking if it were possible for a candidate to win the poplular vote but lose the election. The teacher said something like "Nah".

Bad teacher :roll:

The first time Andrew Jackson ran for president he won the popular vote by 13% and still lost the election.

 

[datalink7]

Heh, next thing warcrow is going to say is "Wait a minute, you mean we aren't a Democracy, but rather a Democratic Republic?!?!"

 

[warcrow]

Originally posted by: datalink7
Heh, next thing warcrow is going to say is "Wait a minute, you mean we aren't a Democracy, but rather a Democratic Republic?!?!"

We are?!

 

[Queasy]

U.S. Senators used to be elected by State Congressman. The idea was that the U.S. Congress would represent the people and the U.S. Senate would represent the states. That changed however and now senators are elected by the people.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Queasy
U.S. Senators used to be elected by State Congressman. The idea was that the U.S. Congress would represent the people and the U.S. Senate would represent the states. That changed however and now senators are elected by the people.

a nail in the coffin of the republic and the first big step on the trend toward mob rule

 

[warcrow]

So wait! If the popular vote = say 100 peeps in X country for kerry. The electoral = win for george, george gets the state, right?

(all numbers are purely hypothetical)

 

[Strk]

Whoever wins the popular vote in a state wins all of its electoral votes in that state, except in Maine and Nebraska, because, like I already said, theirs is divided on a per district basis.

 

[warcrow]

ok, so the electorial college don't vote per see, they just represent a majority?

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: warcrow
ok, so the electorial college don't vote per see, they just represent a majority?

Pretty much. They could technically go against the public vote(I believe someone gave an example), but generally the electoral college goes along with whatever the popular vote is on a per state basis.

 

[warcrow]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: warcrow
ok, so the electorial college don't vote per see, they just represent a majority?

Pretty much. They could technically go against the public vote(I believe someone gave an example), but generally the electoral college goes along with whatever the popular vote is on a per state basis.

Then why is it needed?

Ugh, this is a bit confusing.

Maybe I'll reread the thread. I think someone explained it already.

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: maddogchen
now that more and more people have become educated.

But NOT IN THE US.

Last time I checked, India and Asia do not vote for the U.S. President.

 

[NullSubroutine]

I didnt read all the posts, so if this was already said my apologies.

If the electoral college didnt exist no canidate would ever visit lower population states such as ones in the midwest and the southeast, they would just campaign in new york or california. You should be smart enough to know why that is bad. It also safeguards agaisnt the possibility of someone "buying" the office and electing another Hitler type president (for those that didnt know it Hitler took power legititmatly).

When any canidate runs for president they know the rules of the game, they must win the electoral college, win the state popular vote and you will most likely (almost allways) win the electoral votes for that state. They will campaign accordingly, doesnt matter who wins the popular vote (500,000 margin last election). If you dont win the electoral college then you have no room to complain, you knew the rules before you started.

Democrats complained about how this was because they are sore losers, if republicans would have been in the same place they would have complained as well. Gore and Bush faught to have votes recounted in Flordia so that one or the other would win that states electoral vote. Gore made no (legal) issue of the popular vote (except a couple times whining in speeches).

An indpendent group went back a year or so later and recounted every Flordia ballot and Bush still won.

None of this matters, vote Socialist/Communist!

 

[glugglug]

Originally posted by: NullSubroutine
None of this matters, vote Socialist/Communist!

But the 2 choices on the ballot are Socialist (Democrat) and Fascist (Republican). Are you saying Nader is a Communist?

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: glugglug

Originally posted by: maddogchen
now that more and more people have become educated.

But NOT IN THE US.

Last time I checked, India and Asia do not vote for the U.S. President.

I'm not too familiar with India and its President, but the Prime Minister has most of the executive power from what I understand. As far as Asia goes, you might want to narrow it down to specific countries (which includes India)

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Queasy
U.S. Senators used to be elected by State Congressman. The idea was that the U.S. Congress would represent the people and the U.S. Senate would represent the states. That changed however and now senators are elected by the people.

a nail in the coffin of the republic and the first big step on the trend toward mob rule

word

 

[heartsurgeon]

it is generally accepted that John F. Kennedy's win over Richard Nixon in 1960 was an example of winning the electoral college, while not winning the popular vote. the vote was exceeding close however.

it is generally accepted that Mayo Richard Daley "padded" the Illinois vote totals to give Kennedy a 100,000 margin over Nixon in popular vote nation wide.

Read more history kids....it's all out there.just one linky of many...

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
it is generally accepted that John F. Kennedy's win over Richard Nixon in 1960 was an example of winning the electoral college, while not winning the popular vote. the vote was exceeding close however.

it is generally accepted that Mayo Richard Daley "padded" the Illinois vote totals to give Kennedy a 100,000 margin over Nixon in popular vote nation wide.

Read more history kids....it's all out there.just one linky of many...

LBJ's machine helped deliver texas. both chicago and south texas have long histories of vote fraud... nixon went to his grave thinking he'd won in 1960, it was the major reason that drove him to the watergate scandal.

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: NullSubroutine
I didnt read all the posts, so if this was already said my apologies.

If the electoral college didnt exist no canidate would ever visit lower population states such as ones in the midwest and the southeast, they would just campaign in new york or california. You should be smart enough to know why that is bad. It also safeguards agaisnt the possibility of someone "buying" the office and electing another Hitler type president (for those that didnt know it Hitler took power legititmatly).

One of the reasons for having the electoral college is to avoid electing a president that had only strong regional support i.e. at the beginning of the country's history, most of the people lived in the northeast.

But now, population centers are dispersed with strong pockets of Democrats/Republicans all over the country.
Take Nebraska as an example. GWB will win this state. However, within Nebraska, there are pockets of areas where Democrats are relatively strong i.e. Lincoln or some college towns. GWB will probably win 65%-35% out about 700,000 votes. Kerry won't campaign here because of the electoral college. If Kerry campaigns hard in Nebraska with ads and personal appearances, he may win 40% to 43% of the vote, but he will not win a majority of voters. Therefore, that state is written off electorally. The red and blue states that are not, as a whole, competitive will not receive visits except as pitstops to fundraise. There are no perfect solutions but I do like the idea of awarding electoral votes based on congressional districts and two more votes for overall state winner.