Wagons Ho!

[Greenman]

I'm confused. I could see an electric blower for boost at low rpms giving way to the turbo at higher rpms but a belt driven blower would be rpm-dependent like the turbo. I guest low rpms are still pretty high when driving a fan.

Belt driven superchargers (blowers) used to be faster to spool up than turbos. Turbo lag was a real thing for a long time, that's why dragsters always used blowers.

 

[ondma]

Belt driven superchargers (blowers) used to be faster to spool up than turbos. Turbo lag was a real thing for a long time, that's why dragsters always used blowers.

Yea, turbos have come a long way. Small displacement turbos like VW and Honda have a lot of low end torque.

 

[Perknose]

Yea, turbos have come a long way. Small displacement turbos like VW and Honda have a lot of low end torque.

Yup. The smaller the "rotor," the faster and easier it spools up. So, they have twin turbos now . . . one with a small "rotor" for initial oomph, and one with a bigger rotor to take over, with even more oomph, at speed. Plus, one of the Germans, I think it was BMW, has pioneered placing the turbo in the "valley" between the cylinder heads -- this would perforce be on V-8s -- where the air flow is hotter, which helps.

 

[ElFenix]

I'm not sure why you're using the word that way instead of the industry standard common use. You literally had to add extra words to your original statement about the superchargers to clarify the difference instead of simply saying turbocharger.

won't someone think of the poor electrons?!?

I'm confused. I could see an electric blower for boost at low rpms giving way to the turbo at higher rpms but a belt driven blower would be rpm-dependent like the turbo. I guest low rpms are still pretty high when driving a fan.

i doubt it's electric because you need a higher voltage system than what cars typically use. afaik so far the only electric supercharger in a production car is on merc's M256 engine.

 

[Greenman]

Yup. The smaller the "rotor," the faster and easier it spools up. So, they have twin turbos now . . . one with a small "rotor" for initial oomph, and one with a bigger rotor to take over, with even more oomph, at speed. Plus, one of the Germans, I think it was BMW, has pioneered placing the turbo in the "valley" between the cylinder heads -- this would perforce be on V-8s -- where the air flow is hotter, which helps.

I'm trying to picture the plumbing for that. I assume the intake/exhaust location is reversed but it still seems like there would be a lot of bends and twists to get that air through an intercooler and to the intake, and a bunch more to get the exhaust out.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Why do I get the impression that the OP is a surfer?

By the way -- anyone remember the old "Woodie" wagons?

"Let's go surfin' now, everybody's surfin' now -- come on go surfin' with me!"

As you all know from being active in this forum, I'm the "Trooper guy". I'd rather have my Trooper than a wagon. Rather have my Trooper than a "crossover".

 

[IronWing]

By the way -- anyone remember the old "Woodie" wagons?

This was mine for sixteen years, authentic, genuine wood colored decals.

 

[IronWing]

My parents had a series of wagons while I was growing up: a Ford Gran Torino, a Ford LTD wagon, a Ford Pinto wagon, a Ford Escort wagon, and a Ford Fairmont wagon.

This was my first wagon, same colors, same everything. Mine died in Ranger, TX while I was moving across country with an ancient German Sheppard. I had gotten the oil changed in Fort Worth and the car dropped all its oil while climbing out of river valley east of Ranger. I sold the car to the mechanic for $50 to cut my losses and move on. The car in the pic below sold for $5000 in 2018. 🙁

No Reserve: 1979 Subaru 4WD Wagon

Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: 1979 Subaru 4WD Wagon at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #11,560.

bringatrailer.com

 

[Perknose]

I'm trying to picture the plumbing for that. I assume the intake/exhaust location is reversed but it still seems like there would be a lot of bends and twists to get that air through an intercooler and to the intake, and a bunch more to get the exhaust out.

Good question. If I knew what I was talking about, I could probably give you an answer. 😉

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Love me some wagons. The previous gen CTS-V wagon is one of my all time favorite cars.

 

[rstrohkirch]

I very much believe if you want to do a high HP wagon then it needs to be AWD. That way you can rip it up any time of the year anywhere. Not that any wagon sells well but it certainly wasn't going to sell well in northern states.

 

[sdifox]

I very much believe if you want to do a high HP wagon then it needs to be AWD. That way you can rip it up any time of the year anywhere. Not that any wagon sells well but it certainly wasn't going to sell well in northern states.

NE loves Outback

 

[zinfamous]

Yea, turbos have come a long way. Small displacement turbos like VW and Honda have a lot of low end torque.

yup. My GTI hits max torque at 1500 rpm, and it is very linear through 6k 🙂

EDIT: that's with the stock IS20 turbo. IS38 (stock with Golf R) hits max torque ~2500, I believe?

 

[NutBucket]

I very much believe if you want to do a high HP wagon then it needs to be AWD. That way you can rip it up any time of the year anywhere. Not that any wagon sells well but it certainly wasn't going to sell well in northern states.

See: MB E63 AMG estate, Audi RS-6 estate

NE loves Outback

And SoCal too. But I bet if Subaru made a FWD variant it would sell just as well (maybe better since lower price and presumably better MPGs)

 

[rstrohkirch]

NE loves Outback

Is the Outback really a wagon anymore? I think it technically is but:

 

[rstrohkirch]

See: MB E63 AMG estate, Audi RS-6 estate

I'm pretty sure all of them are AWD. All the high performance ones and all the 350-400hp mid performance ones are as well like the 340i, c43, rs4 avant, etc. I'm not sure why Caddy would put out a high performance wagon and then make it RWD only.

 

[NutBucket]

That was my point 😉

 

[IronWing]

Love me some wagons. The previous gen CTS-V wagon is one of my all time favorite cars.

I looked for a used one. Twas none to be found.

 

[NutBucket]

I looked for a used one. Twas none to be found.

Carmax currently has one in Ohio.....$51k and it's a 6MT!

 

[rstrohkirch]

I've seen a couple of them on Bring a Trailer over the last couple of weeks.

 

[IronWing]

Is the Outback really a wagon anymore? I think it technically is but:

Seats almost but don't quite fold flat, therefore not a true wagon, no good.

 

[ElFenix]

Is the Outback really a wagon anymore? I think it technically is but:

yes.

 

[Perknose]

Is the Outback really a wagon anymore? I think it technically is but:

Same with the effing Forester. Aside from fuel mileage, not historically a Subie strong point, the pervious Forester was my kind of vehicle . . . a small wagon featuring the utility of a box shape with a relatively low belt line and a high greenhouse featuring plenty of glass all around to see out of.

That's always been one of the "hidden" features of the small wagons I've favored . . . superb all around rear and side visibility.

Old Forester from, I guess, two generations ago:

New, SUV-Like Forester:

 

[NutBucket]

It's more SUV like but still has the huge greenhouse and excellent visibility. A-OK in my book.

 

[Perknose]

It's more SUV like but still has the huge greenhouse and excellent visibility. A-OK in my book.

Yeah, but it's like 50% larger than just two gens ago. I was startled when I saw one in the showroom ($50 for a test ride? Don't mind if I do!) 😎