Wafa Sultan on Challenging Islam

[imported_dna]

Video Link

Wafa Sultan argues that the Muhamed cartoons were good, since they created crack in the wall that surrounds Muslims, forcing them to re-examine absolutes and beliefs.
She says further challenges will help in the long run.

This point of view, is, of course, contrary to the political correctness pushed by so many nowadays, arguing that Islam should be granted a special status, making criticism a taboo.

 

[Albatross]

related

 

[DealMonkey]

So the West should continue mocking Islam? I agree. Muslims need some thicker skin. No one on this planet is immune from criticism and mockery. No one!

:| <- Mohammed.

 

[kylebisme]

Mocking people doesn't help them learn to deal with criticism, showing them how to peacefully dispute their mockers does. Of course, far be it from a screaming madwoman to be able to understand that.

 

[imported_dna]

Heh.... what happen, no more "batshit insane" remarks?

It didn't seem to me like she was screaming, but hey, you are known to avoid the substance of arguments.

Oh well, I'd like to you to describe how exactly you show someone how to peacefully dispute, when they just want you dead.

 

[1EZduzit]

If the majority of the western press chose to print a picture of Mohammed every day what would they do?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If the majority of the western press chose to print a picture of Mohammed every day what would they do?

the small percentage of Muslims who are violent would grow and grow and grow, that's what. Heck that percentage is growing already! more work for me...DOH!

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: dna
Heh.... what happen, no more "batshit insane" remarks?

It didn't seem to me like she was screaming, but hey, you are known to avoid the substance of arguments.

Oh well, I'd like to you to describe how exactly you show someone how to peacefully dispute, when they just want you dead.

To answer your first question last, you could start actually respecting people and trying to understand them. And that brings me to the response to " the substance of" her argument which I most certainly did address; again, mocking people doesn't help them learn to deal with criticism, showing them how to peacefully dispute their mockers does. As for Wafa Sultan, she gets pretty high strung at points like in the video you linked when she starts going off about 'no such thing as moderate Islam' in her 'we have to slander Muslims into submission' rant; but, no, she isn't on the batshit insane level like Bridget Gabriel or Michelle Malkin for that matter.

 

[imported_dna]

Perhaps it's time they started to understand and respect our idea of free speech.

Still haven't told us how to "show them".

 

[Moonbeam]

The capacity to transform ones mind occurs only with the need to do it. I agree with her that the way to transform Islam is to create that need. A soap bubble lasts a long time in a calm environment.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If the majority of the western press chose to print a picture of Mohammed every day what would they do?

the small percentage of Muslims who are violent would grow and grow and grow, that's what. Heck that percentage is growing already! more work for me...DOH!

Maybe your right, I don't know?? Terrorism works best when you can single out some type of a specific target but if the whole western press was doing it, would it start WW3 or would the Muslims have to learn some tolerance?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
the small percentage of Muslims who are violent would grow and grow and grow, that's what. Heck that percentage is growing already! more work for me...DOH!

Not necessarily -- they could start getting used to it.

So far they held firm in their position of intolerance, while the West got used to it, and started adjusting. Why do you think there are so many morons advocating for "undertanding" and "tolerance" when it comes to Islam?
It's a policy of appeasement that only encourages their radicals to become more vocal and to declare that the West is weak; that is why it is a policy that is doomed to fail.

The following is an interesting read: Europeans Have Stopped Defending Their Values

SPIEGEL: When something insults Muslims, we often tend to just back off -- doesn't this help defuse the conflict?

Tibi: No. That is simply giving up. And the weaker the partner is viewed by the Muslims, then the greater the anger which they express. And this anger is often carefully staged. The argument over the cartoons for example was completely orchestrated. Nothing was spontaneous. A lot of people don't know if Denmark is a country or a cheese. Where did they get the Danish flags? Protests like these are weapons in this war of ideas. Or take another example: The president of the Iranian parliament was visiting Belgium where he had an appointment with a female Belgian colleague. He refused to shake her hand, so she didn't meet with him. He left Belgium and accused her of racism. The accusation of cultural insensitivity is a weapon. And we have to neutralize it.

(Waiting patiently for TheSnowman to call Tibi "batshit insane")

 

[ProfJohn]

NEWS FLASH The Mohammed cartoons appeared in an Egyptian news paper MONTHS before they were in the Dutch paper and NOTHING!!! happened. You can find the links and pictures that prove this if you google for it, I don't have the link saved.

It seems that there is selective outrage by the radical Muslims.
Let's hope for the sake of everyone that the more moderate Muslims start to deal with the crazies a little more instead of just sitting back and watching.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: dna
Perhaps it's time they started to understand and respect our idea of free speech.

Still haven't told us how to "show them".

We have to show them how to peacefully dispute issues by reacting intelligently and by not bombing the piss out of their countries. Unfortunately, those aren't things we are good at and instead we lead by example with ignorant arguments like this:

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
NEWS FLASH The Mohammed cartoons appeared in an Egyptian news paper MONTHS before they were in the Dutch paper and NOTHING!!! happened. You can find the links and pictures that prove this if you google for it, I don't have the link saved.

It seems that there is selective outrage by the radical Muslims.
Let's hope for the sake of everyone that the more moderate Muslims start to deal with the crazies a little more instead of just sitting back and watching.

The outrage started when the cartons were reported in a Danish newspaper and the Egyptian newspaper reprinted them in an article condemning them about a month latter, then some Dutch newspapers started up with the rubbing the issue in by presenting the cartoons again months later.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
NEWS FLASH The Mohammed cartoons appeared in an Egyptian news paper MONTHS before they were in the Dutch paper and NOTHING!!! happened. You can find the links and pictures that prove this if you google for it, I don't have the link saved.

It seems that there is selective outrage by the radical Muslims.
Let's hope for the sake of everyone that the more moderate Muslims start to deal with the crazies a little more instead of just sitting back and watching.

Amazingly enough I totally agree with you on this point. However, the real "blame" of this crisis is that SA blew a lot of hot air to redirect a lot of critiscism at the time and it worked perfectly. There are a few threads on this.

This doesn't have to deal with crazies or not - it deals with a repressive regime playing a great game of marketing...maybe they got tips from Rove?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The outrage started when the cartons were reported in a Danish newspaper and the Egyptian newspaper reprinted them in an article condemning them about a month latter, then some Dutch newspapers started up with the rubbing the issue in by presenting the cartoons again months later.

Boycott Egypt

Uh-huh... Whatever you say....

We have to show them how to peacefully dispute issues by reacting intelligently and by not bombing the piss out of their countries.

As expected, your argument is that everyone must fold when some Muslims are upset about something, and, of course, you had to mention all the "evils" done to them, such as bombing their countries.
No worries, Iraqis are bombing each other more effectively than any one, but, alas, that's not news, since it wasn't Israel's fault.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
NEWS FLASH The Mohammed cartoons appeared in an Egyptian news paper MONTHS before they were in the Dutch paper and NOTHING!!! happened. You can find the links and pictures that prove this if you google for it, I don't have the link saved.

It seems that there is selective outrage by the radical Muslims.
Let's hope for the sake of everyone that the more moderate Muslims start to deal with the crazies a little more instead of just sitting back and watching.

News flash. We are over 8 trillion dollars in debt.

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: dna

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
The outrage started when the cartons were reported in a Danish newspaper and the Egyptian newspaper reprinted them in an article condemning them about a month latter, then some Dutch newspapers started up with the rubbing the issue in by presenting the cartoons again months later.

Boycott Egypt

Uh-huh... Whatever you say....

Yes, that is the where the Egyptian newspaper reprinted the cartoons from the Danish newspaper that started the outrage, just like I said.

 

[theeedude]

I thought it was OBL's hot niece, but no, it's that ugly woman

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
Yes, that is the where the Egyptian newspaper reprinted the cartoons from the Danish newspaper that started the outrage, just like I said.

Either your playing dumb, or you're simply trying to mislead people (which I wouldn't be surprised), so here's a quote for you from the linked blog entry:

Freedom For Egyptians reminded me why the cartoons looked so familiar to me: they were actually printed in the Egyptian Newspaper Al Fagr back in October 2005. I repeat, October 2005, during Ramadan, for all the egyptian muslim population to see, and not a single squeak of outrage was present.

All the cartoon B.S. started at the end of January, so it was obviously incited / staged.

 

[magomago]

Wasn't this discussed MANY months ago? Why do you speak of it like it is some new issue all the sudden, as if many of these reaction was staged. The Saudis USED this as an excuse to deflect criticism for their piss poor logistics for the Hajj.

For those who are interested in "conspiracy theories" -

http://bibelen.blogspot.com/2006/02/who-are-behind-riots.html

Let us look at one of the governments, who were in need of an easy victim - namely Saudi Arabia. It takes a blog or two to explain it.

The protests and boycotts started in Saudi Arabia - just as the Royal family was being heavily criticized. Pilgrims had been killed in stampedes during "hajj" - and the government was accused of poor planning and incompetence, with 250 dead in 2005 and 350 dead in 2006.

Let's look at the time-line:

September: Twelve innocent cartoons are published in a far-away country.
October: The drawings are printed in an Egypt newspaper - no riots ensue.
November: Nothing
December: Nothing
January: Nothing
January 12th: 350 people pilgrims - i.e. citizens from other Muslim countries are killed. Most of the Muslim world hurl criticism at Saudi Arabia.
January: All the state controlled newspapers suddenly decide not to write about the 350 dead pilgrims anymore, and start writing about twelve cartoons published four months ago in a small far-away country. The Muslim brothers stops fighting each other and concentrate on a common enemy.
January: Boycott of Danish good starts in Saudi Arabia - other countries are to follow
February: Violent protests at Danish embassies - protesters are often waving Saudi Arabian flags.

edit:
i disagree with twelve "innocent" cartoons, but the point still stands...

edit:

when I look back I don't see what you are arguing with him. Is this really the response of angry Muslims who want to kill us and destroy our freedom? Or is this Saudi Arabia trying to deflect criticism by using the religion as a distraction to point away from REAL problems....SA continues to hurt Islam and are close to the anti thesis of what Islam is really about. The enemy is within.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If the majority of the western press chose to print a picture of Mohammed every day what would they do?

the small percentage of Muslims who are violent would grow and grow and grow, that's what. Heck that percentage is growing already! more work for me...DOH!

Care to back that up, Rambo?

 

[Alaa]

Is there a newspaper called Al Fagr in Egypt? I didn't ever before see or hear about it.
The video is Old and complete non-sense... She just wanted to be famous.

 

[imported_dna]

El Fagr

You're starting to sound like the TheSnowman...

I guess 'tis the season for people to play dumb...

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Alaa
Is there a newspaper called Al Fagr in Egypt? I didn't ever before see or hear about it.
The video is Old and complete non-sense... She just wanted to be famous.

Doesn't your religion command you to be honest?