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W7, SSD and winsxs

BarkingGhostar

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
When I first installed Windows 7 Professional onto a Samsung 128GB SSD the size of the install was about 15-16GB in size. I experimented and found OS X to come in at about 5GB and Linux Mint at 6-7GB.

I just noticed this afternoon that the available space on my boot SSD was smaller than expected. Searching, I found the \Windows directory to be nearly 30GB in size--twice what I had expected.

Searching the sub-folders I found the \Windows\winsxs folder to be 14.85GB in size. Researching, this folder apparent keeps copies of all files replaced during Windows Updates. Since there hasn't been a service pack beyond SP1, this folder is allowed to grow ever larger.

Apparently the Microsoft response is to just have you perform a cleanup using the cleanmgr. Has anyone else noticed this, or found a way to get Updates to automatically cleanup?

I understand the reason behind keeping the replaced files (for rollback), but if one never does the benefits seem to not outweigh the drawbacks. This is 64-bit, btw.
 
Yep. When you run Disk Cleanup, select the Clean up System Files Button. If it clears out some of the hard links in the winsxs directory, you will actually see more of a gain on the free space report than it reports.

I don't know if your searches turned this up, but the listings in winsxs are just hard links, which means that the NFTS file system only knows how to report them as used space of the actual file, even though the contents of the folder are links only.
 
15GB of hard links? I'll test the Disk Cleanup on the backup SSD first. Be just my luck it wrecks the OS filesystem or something.
 
Try running this command in the command prompt with administrator privileges. It might free up a few gig. Otherwise you might want to install Winderstat and clean up some temp file. Chrome and Nvidia are big offenders when it comes to this.
Code: 
dism.exe /online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup /ResetBase
 
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Well, running disk cleanup didn't do a thing to change the winsxs folder size. It is still reporting 14.8GB in size. I'll try the dism.exe method since I am on the backup SSD. I got the following response while trying the Command prompt method (running as Administrator):

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>cd\

C:\>dism.exe /online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup /ResetBase

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 6.1.7600.16385

Image Version: 6.1.7600.16385


Error: 87

The startcomponentcleanup option is not recognized in this context.
For more information, refer to the help.
The resetbase option is not recognized in this context.
For more information, refer to the help.

The DISM log file can be found at C:\Windows\Logs\DISM\dism.log

C:\>
 
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the dism.exe /online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup /ResetBase is for windows 8 and newer.

For windows 7 you would have to do Disk Cleanup - Cleanup System Files
or DISM /online /Cleanup-Image /SpSuperseded

The 2nd one is only if you had base win7 and then install sp1, will not do much if you install 7 with sp1
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2795190
 
Well, 14.8GB before my efforts was the size of the winsxs folder and now it is 11.1GB. That means I got back a whopping 4.7GB, but the only thing being reported as removed (cleaned up) was a Windows 7 Ultimate image, which I had no idea even existed.

So I find that the original install pf Windows 7 being 15-16GB is misleading since I would need another 11GB after about a year and four months from install. 26GB!!!

I think I may need to move off of M$. Way too bloated and no doubt a deliberate action my them to encourage you to move onto Win8 (by not bringing out a SP2).
 
Run disk cleanup as administrator, Opens more options.
But I doubt it will clean out the sxs folder any more.
 
Solution is to slipstream all windows fixes into installation media. But I hear you: we should not need to do this crap. Ms could either make sp2 or fix this problem on their side, where it starts.
 
postmortemIA said:
Solution is to slipstream all windows fixes into installation media. But I hear you: we should not need to do this crap. Ms could either make sp2 or fix this problem on their side, where it starts.
Click to expand...
That's what I did on my old XP laptop as well, and it does save a lot of hassle/uglyness. The laptop's recovery partition came with SP2, and that XP install takes like 10 minutes... but SP3 + updates 2008 and beyond takes like 4 hours and leaves a huge mess in Installed Programs. Using a slipstreamed "SP4" my partition is using 1.7GB and looks a lot cleaner:

14jxaaa.jpg
 
BarkingGhostar said:
So I find that the original install pf Windows 7 being 15-16GB is misleading since I would need another 11GB after about a year and four months from install. 26GB!!!
Click to expand...

So let me see if I can understand it.

The original install was about 16GB. Then you did not use the computer for a year and four months and it grew up to 26GB?

As a result you lost 10-12GB which is lost of $7 in SSD space!

BTW. cCleaner Pro offers more extensive and safe cleanup than almost anything else (but it cost $25 😱 ).

😎
 
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Jack, I didn't say I had not used the computer in a year and four months. I said in a year and four months since a clean install the Windows directory grew from 15GB to nearly 30GB, and that the winsxs folder alone was almost 15GB.

BTW, you dollar appropriation is an excuse to rationalize bad programming. Just what I would expect from M$.
 
BarkingGhostar said:
Jack, I didn't say I had not used the computer in a year and four months. I said in a year and four months since a clean install the Windows directory grew from 15GB to nearly 30GB, and that the winsxs folder alone was almost 15GB.

BTW, you dollar appropriation is an excuse to rationalize bad programming. Just what I would expect from M$.
Click to expand...

The only thing I can see to fault Microsoft for is hanging onto NTFS for so long. But considering how much resistance Microsoft gets for their OS upgrades without a new file system to further fuel the flames, I can understand why WinFS didn't take off.

BTW BarkingGhostar, removing unneeded programs can also reduce the amount of space the winsxs folder appears to be taking.
 
BarkingGhostar said:
BTW, you dollar appropriation is an excuse to rationalize bad programming. Just what I would expect from M$.
Click to expand...

One of the reason to behavior of the OS is the Professional need to be backward compatible to almost 15 years thus save a lot of Stuff that might not be needed by the specific user but can save Business from losing the functionality that they need.

Most Enthusiasts have one or two computers that they toss away in a year or two to get a New one to play with and they do not care whether it is backward or store background info.

My plumber has a business employing 10 people and he still uses special software that was designed for Win XP. It is still working well and does everything needed for the Business so he claims that there is No reason to invest thousands of Dollar that do not hence the business revenue.
Similarly there are Millions who use old systems and they do not care what it is as long as it does what they need to with it. Many people that I come across and ask what version of Windows they use do not even know what the answer is. They usually use whatever came with the computer (including the Junk that Dell, HP, etc. load on) and they do not really care that there are new versions. I am not saying that is good I am just stating that is the way it is.

Of course most these people Drama Queen about whatever their primary involvement in private and working life is, just like Enthusiasts do major Drama Queening about computers OS’ and losing 10GB of NAND memory.

That said, I have a very sophisticated two years old i7 computer with 256GB Samsung SSD and 2TB Data HD. The computer has few large professional office and work related suits and a lot of Apps/Utilities involving Visual and statistical Data. No games beside the Freecell, Solitair etc, that comes with Win7.

After two years Windows Directory grew up from 14GB to 17 GB.

You can try to use this free App and it will show what exactly is on the Drive size wise (Drive/Folders/Files).

http://www.jam-software.com/treesize_free/




😎
 
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Guys, this still does not address the winsxs folder growth that is 1GB per month. I cannot believe that the volume of updates, and thus the backup of replaced files, amounts to that much.

Uninstalling programs isn't an answer. "Excuse me but if you want the operating system you cannot have the apps, too." Jack, keep in mind I am not simply just looking at the reported size of the winsxs folder, but the difference between total SSD size and the consumed folders everywhere else.

I read, here and elsewhere, that the winsxs folder only contains hard links to binaries elsewhere. Thus, the reporting of folder size can be well above the reality. OK, but that doesn't negate the fact that the total minus the consumed still affirmed the winsxs folder size.

But I will have a look at the Treesize software--thanks for pointing me there.
 
I forgot to mention something that I discovered early this morning. I had looked at this webpage and noticed something odd. This image shows something I do not see:
keTSh.png

I do not have the check-box shown in the image. I followed the information, found the specific update, installed it which should have made it available, but it didn't work.

Has this winsxs issue continued in Windows 8? I had thought about getting the HP Stream mini, which uses a 32GB SSD, but I fear if the behavior is the same then it would stop working in less than a year.
 
At least a year ago, after finishing up a fresh 8.1 install on a client's PC due for maintenance, having let it update, I thought I was done. I came across the dism.exe command specific to w8. Let it run, it chopped 2-3GB off winsxs... On a fresh install, using the latest image available back then.

I religiously run that cleanup since then. Recently I had to do the same work, a fresh 8.1.1 install this time, using an image with the update integrated. Let the command work after installing all the available updates, it resulted in a 4GB reduction...

I've also come across other PCs I had to work on, their winsxs folders were ridiculously huge. But then these rigs also had shady software in them and other stuff you wouldn't want on your PC, too. It seems winsxs does still get bloated with the updates on 8.1.. thankfully the dism.exe command and cleanmgr with the /sageset:xx /sagerun:xx checklist run in a few minutes if you're on an SSD and problem solved. A HDD, well, just go get a coffee break or two 😀
 
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BarkingGhostar said:
Guys, this still does not address the winsxs folder growth that is 1GB per month. I cannot believe that the volume of updates, and thus the backup of replaced files, amounts to that much.
Click to expand...

Mine (winsxs, Win7 SP1 64) is just shy of 10GB. Based on my understanding of the function of the winsxs folder, I would say that it expands to include libraries related to programs you've installed.

Also, I once encountered a scenario with a Vista machine where a file called (IIRC) ManifestCache had grown to >30GB in size. I backed it up and deleted it. The replacement file was much smaller.
 
ketchup79 said:
Yep. When you run Disk Cleanup, select the Clean up System Files Button....
Click to expand...

Remember this post? This is what you have to do to see entries like the Windows Update cleanup:
keTSh.png

If it isn't there, you may have already cleaned it, or Windows update isn't current.

WinSxS is here to stay. I am running the preview of 10 and it is on this OS as well. Why would they take it away? It is here for a reason.
 
Oops sorry about giving you the command for Win8 I missed that you pointed out you are running 7.😳:embarrassed:

I just checked my winsxs folder using Winderstat and it is right at 5.8gb. I'm running Win8.1 fully updated.
 
You might be missing update KB2852386 for some reason, which enables Windows Update Cleanup on Win 7 SP1
 
I struggled with this as well, its a big problem because SSDs are popular. It would be annoying and wasteful but more endurable if we were all still using mechanical drives. Its actually gotten better since Microsoft updated the cleanup tool so you can at least gain *some* of the wasted space back. Previously you could pretty much stare at it or try and build a slipstream install. Given the barrage of updates that come in the slipstream install would quickly become obsolete. Even with the cleanup that folder still seems to grow like cancer, its just you can cut some of it out now without reinstalling.

As you've noticed in your research, many of the data is hardlinks and doesn't actually use the space it reports. But since it reports the space as used, it essentially has no difference than if it actually used it. I suppose it saves on write cycles?

A workaround I suppose would be to use the SSD as a cache drive solution, these virtually never used files would then be left out of the cache. That's a pretty convoluted workaround that has a ton of drawbacks and limitations.

Microsoft certainly missed the boat on the rise of SSDs with Windows 7. But it doesn't seem like Windows 8 is much better and that is targeted at tablets with limited space.
 
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