VW GTI vs BMW 320 vs BMW 128

[thedarkwolf]

GTD but you would have to wait a while 🙁

 

[GregGreen]

I recently went GTI. I was looking to get into something with a DCT as I was tired of driving my DD manual around town, but still wanted something a little more than a traditional automatic.

BMW only offers their DCT on the 135i, not the 128i (and only 2011+). Between that, the 128i being a fair amount more than the GTI (and the 135i way more) and the usability/convenience of the GTI over the 1-series, I knew which way was appropriate for me.

The 320i is just too much money for what it is, IMO. I would have been much more likely to try and stretch to get an E90 328i than stretch for the F20 320i (considering they were similar money amounts new).

That said, I really would have been just buying the 1-series as a modern E46 coupe replacement. There will be time to get a manual ZHP/M3 coupe as a second car sometime in the future. 🙂

If they offered the RWD 1-series hatchback in the US, maybe this would have been a different story 🙂.

 

[Fritzo]

I recently went GTI. I was looking to get into something with a DCT as I was tired of driving my DD manual around town, but still wanted something a little more than a traditional automatic.

BMW only offers their DCT on the 135i, not the 128i (and only 2011+). Between that, the 128i being a fair amount more than the GTI (and the 135i way more) and the usability/convenience of the GTI over the 1-series, I knew which way was appropriate for me.

The 320i is just too much money for what it is, IMO. I would have been much more likely to try and stretch to get an E90 328i than stretch for the F20 320i (considering they were similar money amounts new).

That said, I really would have been just buying the 1-series as a modern E46 coupe replacement. There will be time to get a manual ZHP/M3 coupe as a second car sometime in the future. 🙂

If they offered the RWD 1-series hatchback in the US, maybe this would have been a different story 🙂.

I will say that I'm seeing a lot more GTi's on the road these days, and they're really slick looking. My favorite is the white with red accents, or the gunmetal color (also with red accents).

 

[Vdubchaos]

I like the GTI too, I would take it over 1 series and 3 but mostly due to ugly styling of those 2. Just not a fan.

 

[sgrinavi]

I like the GTI too, I would take it over 1 series and 3 but mostly due to ugly styling of those 2. Just not a fan.

Funny, I think the VW is butt-ugly and both of the BMWs are nice looking cars.

 

[Fritzo]

Funny, I think the VW is butt-ugly and both of the BMWs are nice looking cars.

I like them both- the 1 series looks refined and tasteful, while the GTI's shape makes it look "fast while it's standing still". The only way I'd buy a GTI though is new. VW couldn't make electrics or seals that last more than 36000 miles if their life depended on it.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Funny, I think the VW is butt-ugly and both of the BMWs are nice looking cars.

Nothing funny about that. We all have different tastes.

World would suck if everyone was the same, wouldn't it?

I like them both- the 1 series looks refined and tasteful, while the GTI's shape makes it look "fast while it's standing still". The only way I'd buy a GTI though is new. VW couldn't make electrics or seals that last more than 36000 miles if their life depended on it.

Is that why my B5 Passat just reached 15 years and 150k miles and is doing just fine?

🙂

Kind of like me saying BMW can't make Climate control buttons or door handle worth a shit.

 

[Excelsior]

Nothing funny about that. We all have different tastes.

World would suck if everyone was the same, wouldn't it?



Is that why my B5 Passat just reached 15 years and 150k miles and is doing just fine?

🙂

Kind of like me saying BMW can't make Climate control buttons or door handle worth a shit.

B5.5 here, 12 years old and 155K miles. VW has had its rough patches for sure, but I definitely don't trust BMW/MB anymore. Anyone who truly knows cars wouldn't either.

 

[hans007]

i'd never buy a GTI , its a nice car, but its just not in the same class as the 2 RWD cars.

VW also seems to be even more unreliable than BMW or mercedes in general. my audi broke down 3 times in 3 years , once a full engine failure. i've had a lot of friends with VW / audis where it seems like if a VW product you are getitng your car flatbedded out of somewhere. so i guess personally i wouldn't get a VW just because they seem to be the least reliable german make

that said, i'd get the 320i over the 128i

now space and number of doors are issues, the 320i is a lot bigger than a 128. that said, some prefer the inline-6 and some prefer the turbo 4. the 320i has mostly the same engine as the 328i. its pretty underrated because bmw turbo engines apparently all are compared to the older NA engines. probably they could have labeled it 210hp and that would have been more accurate. but its an N26 in there and there are chip tunes for $400 that give it more or less most of what the 328i has. gets better gas milage too.

on the 128i side though you do get the older hydraulic steering which is nicer, and the i-6 is smoother. but you also get the old terrible interior. the 1 series interior is not nearly as nice, plus no idrive unless you spring for nav. personally i think the 1 series is ugly too.

in a year the 228i will replace the 128i and i think in that case i'd get the 228

 

[vi edit]

B5.5 here, 12 years old and 155K miles. VW has had its rough patches for sure, but I definitely don't trust BMW/MB anymore. Anyone who truly knows cars wouldn't either.

I think the B5/5.5 Passat was the pinnacle of VW's efforts in the US market. It still looks good to this day and outside of coilpack issues was a very reliable car. Still miss my 2000 V6 Wagon 🙁

 

[Vdubchaos]

B5.5 here, 12 years old and 155K miles. VW has had its rough patches for sure, but I definitely don't trust BMW/MB anymore. Anyone who truly knows cars wouldn't either.

Yep, I would take my chances with VW vs BMW/MB as well. They are a bit more simpler/less complicated.

Less = more when it comes to reliability. More crap = more crap that can break.

I think the B5/5.5 Passat was the pinnacle of VW's efforts in the US market. It still looks good to this day and outside of coilpack issues was a very reliable car. Still miss my 2000 V6 Wagon 🙁

B5s never had coil pack issues....B5.5s did.

PS. I had 2 of these cars and put over 300k miles on both over 15 years.

 

[vi edit]

Yeah I put almost 120k miles on my wagon. The only real nagging issue I had with it was a small coolant leak that I probably could have tracked down if I had enough desire too. It just left a drip or two of the hot pink coolant on the concrete everytime you parked. I just kept a jug of coolant in the wheel well area where the CD changer was mounted (which *was* a massive piece of crap). Outside of that I had a vaccuum hose replaced under recall, a timing belt/water pump replacement at 80k, and a tie rod and cv boot at 90k. Only other money put into it was gas, tires, and oil.

 

[sgrinavi]

Nothing funny about that. We all have different tastes.

World would suck if everyone was the same, wouldn't it?

Or as I like to say

'That's why they make chocolate and vanilla'

 

[sgrinavi]

B5.5 here, 12 years old and 155K miles. VW has had its rough patches for sure, but I definitely don't trust BMW/MB anymore. Anyone who truly knows cars wouldn't either.

You don't say.... what exactly qualifies someone to "truly know" all cars?

 

[Vdubchaos]

Yeah I put almost 120k miles on my wagon. The only real nagging issue I had with it was a small coolant leak that I probably could have tracked down if I had enough desire too. It just left a drip or two of the hot pink coolant on the concrete everytime you parked. I just kept a jug of coolant in the wheel well area where the CD changer was mounted (which *was* a massive piece of crap). Outside of that I had a vaccuum hose replaced under recall, a timing belt/water pump replacement at 80k, and a tie rod and cv boot at 90k. Only other money put into it was gas, tires, and oil.

100% Water pump

:biggrin:

Timing belt are normal maintenance......and probably why your water pump started leaking hehe

Outside for that, vacuum hoses disintegrate......and tie rods end up going after 70-80k

CV Boot is most likely just damage from a stick. I left mine ripped and wheel bearing didn't make a noise until 20-30k miles after.....and I left it anyways.

Thankfully the wheel didn't fall off hehe

VW does make their axle boots out of some brittle ass rubber though.....

I will say that you had a Extremely reliable VW based on other owner experiences (I've been in Passat community since ClubB5 days hehe)

I had similar luck....but I know many that didn't

 

[Excelsior]

You don't say.... what exactly qualifies someone to "truly know" all cars?

If they truly knew cars, they wouldn't suggest something as obtuse as "VWs are the only german cars which are over engineered. BMW and MB don't have that problem, therefore they are more reliable."

Honestly, no one should by a german car if reliability is the only or primary concern.

 

[Arkaign]

If they truly knew cars, they wouldn't suggest something as obtuse as "VWs are the only german cars which are over engineered. BMW and MB don't have that problem, therefore they are more reliable."

Honestly, no one should by a german car if reliability is the only or primary concern.

Yep, one should buy German cars if :

They love them
They understand the maintenance schedule
They understand that parts and labor will often be pricier, even if they do the work themselves

That really goes for any car though, it's a model by model examination of the facts, and then throwing some luck into it as well. Sometimes you just get a lemon even on normally reliable cars. Used cars are also a complete crapshoot. You have no 100% foolproof way of knowing that the vehicle you just bought with 60k miles on it was run 25k without changing the oil by a moron, unless you really trust the records beyond any reasonable doubt or you knew the service was done because it was a relatives car or something like that and you did the maintenance yourself.

 

[Fritzo]

If they truly knew cars, they wouldn't suggest something as obtuse as "VWs are the only german cars which are over engineered. BMW and MB don't have that problem, therefore they are more reliable."

Honestly, no one should by a german car if reliability is the only or primary concern.

What if you've had experience with all three before making that judgement? *cough cough*

 

[Arkaign]

What if you've had experience with all three before making that judgement? *cough cough*

That's a fair point, but let's take that at it's base value.

Someone owned a 1998 Jetta, a 2003 A4, and leased a 2009 328i. They had significant problems with the Jetta and A4, but had a great experience with the 328i and returned the lease after 3 years for another BMW. Does that person have a legitimate reason to dismiss VW and Audi as brands simply because the two models they owned for specific years gave them a lot of trouble? I think that's a logical fallacy, and even I fall prey to that simplistic level of thought as I've seen more than a few people I personally know have immensely terrible problems (Engine/Tranny failures are ones I consider the absolute worst) with VW/Audi products. Even so, that doesn't preclude the fact that very reliable VW/Audi products do exist out there on the roads, some people never have a motor or tranny fail on their VW/Audi, and they happily hit 200k+ miles without issue on the original drivetrain (this is my personal standard of a 'reliable' vehicle, in combination of other components not failing at a notably higher than average rate).

It doesn't help that marketing BS like JD Power don't truly follow vehicles for a long enough timeframe, and that so much of the data is difficult to understand or relies on the customer to provide for real long-term hard info. TrueDelta is much better than JD Power/Consumer Reports, but it's also not perfect either.

What we'd really like to see is :

Consumer incompetence ignored (eg; take all the 'I don't know what this button does' and 'I didn't change my oil for 40k miles and my motor blew up' out of the data entirely)

Cosmetic data segregated (the embossing on the A/C knob wore off after 100k miles! burn the car!)

Firm info on motor/transmission longevity under acceptable routine maintenance (eg; synthetic oil change every 5k miles on a 2.0T A4)

Firm info on supporting component longevity (eg; water pump failed after 130k miles, starter failed after 63k miles)

Filter all of that through regional logistic analysis (eg; cars where road salt is regularly dumped might be more prone to corrosion and damage to exposed underbody components) to get a good look at the true facts. I see many more Subarus bought up North in comparison to down in the flat/hot/dry states. Correspondingly, more Subarus overall might be exposed to conditions that cause more frequent failures of an environmentally harsh nature. The fact alone that they have these failures more often than a brand/model that sells more commonly in the drier climates shouldn't be a ding against Subaru without examining the granularity of such facts.

Etc.

Cliffs : we need more info, and we need to be more intelligent about gathering/analyzing such info. And bogus marketing trash that considers 36,000 miles or 3 years or whatever to be 'long-term' need to DIAF.

 

[Excelsior]

What if you've had experience with all three before making that judgement? *cough cough*

You're free to make your own judgement. I know I have. I try to look at every model and year as its own entity and then move forward. Are Toyotas usually more reliable than German cars? Yes. Did that stop my GF's Rav4 from needing an expensive transmission ECM replacement that wasn't covered under warranty? No. One should expect better from a Toyota, right?

Would I ever own a Jetta made between 99 and 2005 (hell, 2012)? No, because I wouldn't trust them.

Every model has its own issues from time to time (HPFP's on multiple German cars recently rings a bell) one just has to know about the potential for these issues before owning one. Research helps, but the common consumer is really quite bad when it comes to research.

 

[homercles337]

Modern US cars use oil sensors to tell when to change your oil, so you could go as far as 20K-30K without an oil change depending on your driving conditions. Frequent oil changes are more of a thing to worry about in older cars.

I own a Golf R, and VW recommends 10k. I had the oil/filters changed at 2500, and am about to do the same now that i hit 5k. I do this interval because i check the oil. At 2k it started losing viscosity, at 2500 more so and decidedly more burnt. Time for a change. Age has something to do with it too, its low miles but i have owned the car for 17 months. Im sure regular "high revving events" do not help...