VR-Zone: FX-9590 is the final legacy of the FX line

[SlowSpyder]

I don't care if it's an APU as long as the CPU is fast. But damn, it's looking less likely that I can have a SR to drop into my AM3+ m/b

Yea, I do hope some Steamroller cores find their way to AM3+ one way or another. AMD is building the cores for APU's anyway, I wonder how involved or how much it would cost to take the cores and put six to eight of them together for an AM3+ part? I'm not holding my breath, but since I have an AM3+ board sitting here I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of upgrade path. :twisted:

 

[Makaveli]

If the FX range are "super", then what was the Athlon 64 to you, the 'second coming'?

Agreed the Athlon 64 is still the best CPU amd has ever produced as far as i'm concerned.

And if I was going to hold on to anything from AMD it would be one of those.

The athlon 64 stands on its own as the only cpu from amd that embarrassed the P4 line up, and is probably the reason we saw conroe as soon as we did. Intel would still be playing with the netburst arch.

They woke up a sleeping giant.

The current FX chips have noting to be proud of or anything worth mentioning.

And you can't even use the they were first to 5ghz cause it has to turbo to get there and won't stay there full load.

 

[Slomo4shO]

I want to see one socket to rule them all for >kabini.

Agreed. The APU socket already has CPUs without integrated graphics (Athlon II X4 750K, 760K). Consolidating the sockets would be a good decision(as long as they continue to offer 6/8 or more core options) and expanding hybrid crossfire to work with the entire AMD GPU lineup (at least the new generation) would also be an important step in solidifying the APU for low budget gaming.

 

[nehalem256]

Agreed. The APU socket already has CPUs without integrated graphics (Athlon II X4 750K, 760K). Consolidating the sockets would be a good decision(as long as they continue to offer 6/8 or more core options) and expanding hybrid crossfire to work with the entire AMD GPU lineup (at least the new generation) would also be an important step in solidifying the APU for low budget gaming.

It does seem silly to keep FX on its on socket. The only market they would lose out on by merging it over would be people wanting lots'o'cores, but were unwilling to shell out for a discrete video card. Seems like a small market to me.

 

[Slomo4shO]

It does seem silly to keep FX on its on socket. The only market they would lose out on by merging it over would be people wanting lots'o'cores, but were unwilling to shell out for a discrete video card. Seems like a small market to me.

They have already released the 220 TDP 9000 series. Since they already have put out obscenly high TDP CPUs, I am unsure why they would constrain themselves to 4 core APUs. An 8 core APU with an integrated GPU as powerful as the HD 7850 (PS4 equivalent graphics power) for around $200-220 would definitely be something worth consideration. Especially if the integrated GPU can be run in hybrid crossfire with any of the HD 7000 series or newer GPUs.

 

[ShintaiDK]

They have already released the 220 TDP 9000 series. Since they already have put out obscenly high TDP CPUs, I am unsure why they would constrain themselves to 4 core APUs. An 8 core APU with an integrated GPU as powerful as the HD 7850 (PS4 equivalent graphics power) for around $200-220 would definitely be something worth consideration. Especially if the integrated GPU can be run in hybrid crossfire with any of the HD 7000 series or newer GPUs.

And need a 100$ cooler to keep it from going nuclear? AMD needs to sell millions. Not a few 100 novelty chips for a PR stunt.

Plus you are not getting anything GPU wise until you solve the memory bottleneck. And thats not exactly free either. Not to mention hybrid solutions are terrible to put it mildly.

 

[sushiwarrior]

They have already released the 220 TDP 9000 series. Since they already have put out obscenly high TDP CPUs, I am unsure why they would constrain themselves to 4 core APUs. An 8 core APU with an integrated GPU as powerful as the HD 7850 (PS4 equivalent graphics power) for around $200-220 would definitely be something worth consideration. Especially if the integrated GPU can be run in hybrid crossfire with any of the HD 7000 series or newer GPUs.

They made those CPUs because they had existing designs and existing silicon which could be made to run at those clocks. The APU you are suggesting is far, faaaar different because it requires new custom silicon, AMD appears to be focusing on just mainstream APUs because they are trying to do "one thing right, rather than several things poorly" I would say.

Now, where the future x86 competition is going to come from... who knows. Doesn't seem like Intel...

 

[Phynaz]

The FX brand is tainted. They are smart to drop it.

 

[wilds]

Didn't AMD claim they were out of the performance race several months before releasing the 9590?

I bet Phenom is coming back.

 

[Blue_Max]

At very least it's time to drop the very-aged AM3+ socket!

If they're going to specialize in APU's (which is wise!) they should really pump out some new ones with more cores, fancier stuff like drive-caching, and faster APU graphics that really integrate with other AMD video cards.

Time to take your specialty up a notch, AMD!

Just for laughs, imagine they marketed the SAME APU used in the PS4 for the PC market, but allowed it to run PS4 games with a Windows or bootable app!

 

[Maximilian]

Boo! WTB steamroller 8 core...

8 core + graphics + new FMx LGA socket, make it happen AMD!

 

[Slomo4shO]

Plus you are not getting anything GPU wise until you solve the memory bottleneck. And thats not exactly free either. Not to mention hybrid solutions are terrible to put it mildly.

True enough. This requires a better memory controller and on-board GDDR5 cache until DDR4 is available.

Also, hybrid crossfire is horrid in its currently implementation but can definately be improved upon.

They made those CPUs because they had existing designs and existing silicon which could be made to run at those clocks. The APU you are suggesting is far, faaaar different because it requires new custom silicon, AMD appears to be focusing on just mainstream APUs because they are trying to do "one thing right, rather than several things poorly" I would say.

The 9590 is rated so high is because they picked out chips with high leakage to reach 5GHz turbo clocks. The chip itself doesn't overclock much. The new volcanic island GPU cores are supposed to be 22nm and more energy efficient than current models. A 8 core steamroller APU with the GPU power of a 7850 shouldn't dissipate as much heat as the absurdity that is the 9590. Then again, I could be wrong.

 

[JDG1980]

VR-Zone publishes a lot of crap. I'll wait for more reliable sources, thank you very much.

 

[sushiwarrior]

True enough. This requires a better memory controller and on-board GDDR5 cache until DDR4 is available.

Also, hybrid crossfire is horrid in its currently implementation but can definately be improved upon.



The 9590 is rated so high is because they picked out chips with high leakage to reach 5GHz turbo clocks. The chip itself doesn't overclock much. The new volcanic island GPU cores are supposed to be 22nm and more energy efficient than current models. A 8 core steamroller APU with the GPU power of a 7850 shouldn't dissipate as much heat as the absurdity that is the 9590. Then again, I could be wrong.

You're missing the point - something extreme like what you propose requires a new piece of silicon JUST for the high end, while something like the 9590 took the existing 8350 die and just used a new bin for higher clocks. It's much easier to make a 220w 9590 than to make an 8-core, 7850 GPU APU like you suggest (this requires lots of engineering, verification, testing, designing, etc. TONS of extra costs vs. adding a new bin)

Hybrid crossfire should be getting better soon, not sure if with Kaveri though. Might be next product after that.

 

[Idontcare]

VR-Zone publishes a lot of crap. I'll wait for more reliable sources, thank you very much.

This.

For being journalists, this realm of techno-rumor publishing sure does rely on a liberal amount of "taking creative license" with reality when coming up with random BS to publish so they can get their paychecks and pay the rent.

And it works because people read them, link them, and talk about them as if it were bona fide fact. In the very sense of the phrase, the trolls get fed, fed well.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

This.

For being journalists, this realm of techno-rumor publishing sure does rely on a liberal amount of "taking creative license" with reality when coming up with random BS to publish so they can get their paychecks and pay the rent.

And it works because people read them, link them, and talk about them as if it were bona fide fact. In the very sense of the phrase, the trolls get fed, fed well.

That.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Why can't AMD just reverse engineer Intels products again like they used to?

Or did they sign that right away sometime ago?

 

[mrmt]

Why can't AMD just reverse engineer Intels products again like they used to?

Or did they sign that right away sometime ago?

Yes, in the 90's settlement they were forbidden to reverse engineer Intel products.

 

[Exophase]

They have already released the 220 TDP 9000 series. Since they already have put out obscenly high TDP CPUs, I am unsure why they would constrain themselves to 4 core APUs. An 8 core APU with an integrated GPU as powerful as the HD 7850 (PS4 equivalent graphics power) for around $200-220 would definitely be something worth consideration. Especially if the integrated GPU can be run in hybrid crossfire with any of the HD 7000 series or newer GPUs.

Making a special high TDP bin of an existing product is cheap and not a big risk regardless of how many people buy it. But making a new chip is a huge investment and there has to be a substantial market to justify it. An 8 core chip with 7850-level GPU would be positively huge and therefore expensive. A price of under $220 is completely unrealistic. A 7850 alone already costs nearly that much. Also consider that even AMD urges buyers to use a relatively expensive water cooling solution with their 220W CPU, further driving up the total system cost to the point where it'd almost definitely cost more than a good CPU and discrete GPU separately.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Yes, in the 90's settlement they were forbidden to reverse engineer Intel products.

Figures /\

 

[Idontcare]

It is legal to reverse engineer an IC.

And it is legal to manufacture an IC that was created from knowledge generated from reverse engineering an IC.

But it is illegal to sell anything that contains IP that has not been properly licensed. (so you can make the chip, fill warehouses full of them if you like, but you can't legally sell them or do anything with them)

That is why Intel, and every other business, applies for patents. It doesn't keep you from making knock-offs and cheap imitations of their products, but it does prevent you from legally selling them.

Yes everyone who wants to know already knows the "secret" formula for Coca-Cola. And they can manufacture it to their heart's delight, but they can't sell it (which includes giving it away) because they don't have a license from Coca-Cola to sell their IP.

Reverse engineering is great if you (1) aren't worried about the legal ramifications of selling your product without licensing the IP, or (2) aren't going to necessarily re-use the IP, but rather are going to use your knowledge of the IP to then seek out alternative ways of doing the same thing (the "learn by example" method of self-improvement )

So, given the mammoth costs associated with reverse engineering a billion transistor IC, and the limited value to come from doing so, it is not really worth any business's time and money to do it that way.

Motivation via national interests are different though, as is the resourcing and cost-benefits justification.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

My thought came from my understanding that back before time began and you were an old man AMD used to reverse engineer Intels chips and sell them for cheaper, is that not true?

 

[StinkyPinky]

I don't know what you mean with the "second coming"??? coming of what?

It's a biblical expression meaning the return of Jesus. In common english usage it usually means something so amazing that it's godlike.

 

[Idontcare]

My thought came from my understanding that back before time began and you were an old man AMD used to reverse engineer Intels chips and sell them for cheaper, is that not true?

Originally Intel actually gave AMD the designs, they had to because AMD was actually a foundry for Intel. You have to give the foundry the designs (the masks). The foundry doesn't have to analyze them, but they easily and readily can if they want to.

Where things got problematic was when Intel decided they didn't want AMD as a foundry any more, and did not extend their contract to the newer processors that Intel was coming out with.

So AMD took "creative license" with their existing foundry license for x86 production and argued that since they (AMD) had the rights to produce and sell 286 processors that they also had the right to produce and sell 386 and 486 processors even though the designs were based largely on reverse-engineering Intel's existing processors.

In today's times this would literally be no different than if TSMC or GloFo were to reverse engineer AMD's APU and start selling them themselves in competition with AMD. AMD would rightly cry foul if that were to happen, but it was literally the basis of their existence prior to the effort to develop the K5 as its first internally designed microarchitecture that wasn't just a tweaked version of a stolen design.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Seems complicated.