I agree with Johny that there's no reason to even have the box when you have to affirm you're a citizen by your signature.
I would bet that there will be a legal challenge if any ballots are tossed for this, and the case will win.
Along the same lines, when I registered yesterday in Ohio, the registration form has a box for your signature..I was told that if ANY part of my signature even touched the lines of the box my registration would be tossed !!
so good penmanship is required to vote in Ohio !!
:shocked:
I would bet that there will be a legal challenge if any ballots are tossed for this, and the case will win.
Along the same lines, when I registered yesterday in Ohio, the registration form has a box for your signature..I was told that if ANY part of my signature even touched the lines of the box my registration would be tossed !!
so good penmanship is required to vote in Ohio !!
:shocked:
Normally I would I agree with the repugs here that say you should be able to check the right box BUT the fact is you sign as a citizen and that makes it redundant to check the box. If your voting stub can show that you are eligible to vote and that you have voted, it should be let in.
Wrong. These people are so stupid that, like I said before, I question their ability to vote for Bush on election day. Do you really think I want Kerry to get free votes?
Are you trying to say that African Americans are too stupid and/or careless to check a box properly?
No fool. But if a Republican is too stupid to check a box, what guarantee do we have that he won't accidentally vote for Kerry?
It's not a risk we have to take.
The question shouldn't even be on the form is my point. It would be like a Testicular Cancer questionare asking if you are a male and then throwing out your response if you failed to check the box. People assume you were a male to be able to talk about Testicular Cancer. People and the goverment assume that you are a US citizen to even bother registering. So those that do not check the box must've done it by mistake not because they aren't US citizen's and are just sending a form for the hell of it.
The reason for this is that new registrations everywhere are apparently running at 3 or 4 to 1 Dems vs Repubs.
Dubya and his congresional allies have obviously pissed off a lot of folks who would otherwise be indifferent, and his partisan supporters are doing what they can to reduce these new registrations. The numbers are very straightforward- for every thousand rejected, the majority will be Democrats.
Just in case nobody remembers, forms can be tricky, particularly for seniors and others with relatively poor eyesight. Witness the 2000 results from the butterfly ballots in some Florida counties.
It's also unreasonable and wrong to ask for the same information more than once on any form. I strongly suspect that Florida will be forced to back down quickly, just as happened in Ohio over the paper weight issue.
As for those alleging voter fraud in Ohio, please link it up or stfu- unsupported allegations don't fly very well, at all...
Every citizen over the age of 18 who's not mentally incompetent has the right to vote, with few exceptions. Doesn't matter if you're smart or not, male or female, black, white, yellow or green. The problem with the too dumb to vote argument is that there's no end to it- unless you're a Mensa member, somebody else will think that you're too dumb to vote... Republicans have long opposed any sort of reform in registration procedures, knowing that low registration and low turn out favor their candidates.
As far as I'm concerned, voter registration should be automatic with the possession of a driver's license or state ID, and that states should be forced to share such information as is done with CDL's. Licenses should be valid for only 2 years, to prevent dead people from voting in more than one election. We'd need some refinement on this, of course, but it's a place to start to increase participation in Democracy.
Low registration and turnout only reduce the legitimacy of the government, no matter who's in power. Unfortunately, some folks only care about winning.
Dubya and his congresional allies have obviously pissed off a lot of folks who would otherwise be indifferent, and his partisan supporters are doing what they can to reduce these new registrations. The numbers are very straightforward- for every thousand rejected, the majority will be Democrats.
Just in case nobody remembers, forms can be tricky, particularly for seniors and others with relatively poor eyesight. Witness the 2000 results from the butterfly ballots in some Florida counties.
It's also unreasonable and wrong to ask for the same information more than once on any form. I strongly suspect that Florida will be forced to back down quickly, just as happened in Ohio over the paper weight issue.
As for those alleging voter fraud in Ohio, please link it up or stfu- unsupported allegations don't fly very well, at all...
Every citizen over the age of 18 who's not mentally incompetent has the right to vote, with few exceptions. Doesn't matter if you're smart or not, male or female, black, white, yellow or green. The problem with the too dumb to vote argument is that there's no end to it- unless you're a Mensa member, somebody else will think that you're too dumb to vote... Republicans have long opposed any sort of reform in registration procedures, knowing that low registration and low turn out favor their candidates.
As far as I'm concerned, voter registration should be automatic with the possession of a driver's license or state ID, and that states should be forced to share such information as is done with CDL's. Licenses should be valid for only 2 years, to prevent dead people from voting in more than one election. We'd need some refinement on this, of course, but it's a place to start to increase participation in Democracy.
Low registration and turnout only reduce the legitimacy of the government, no matter who's in power. Unfortunately, some folks only care about winning.
Why don't you link any of your claims here (like this 4:1 Dem:repub ration).
Unfortunately when it was proposed that ID be required to vote, people cried foul.
BTW, how is someone with poor vision supposed to punch a ballot? I mean, GB and JK don't look that similar, but things can happen.
I'm still sitting on the fense on this one. While I agree that that signing the form constitutes affirmation of citizenship and thereby renders the checkbox superfluous, I do think that rules need to be followed.
Perhaps the people who designed and approved the form bear some responsability. Those with poor eyesight should have agmented their vision with corrective lenses or another person to assist them.
This is one of those situations where the point of contention is not clearly right or wrong.
Perhaps the people who designed and approved the form bear some responsability. Those with poor eyesight should have agmented their vision with corrective lenses or another person to assist them.
This is one of those situations where the point of contention is not clearly right or wrong.
Just one link for lordtyranus-
http://www.reachm.com/amstreet...-and-leaning-democrat/
That ratio isn't necessarily everywhere, the ratio I mentioned is for Ohio, preliminary newscast commentary indicates much the same here in Colorado. I may well have jumped to conclusions, taking what I've heard about particular areas to the general case. If so, Mea Culpa.
There was also some commentary from Chris Matthews this morning on NBC about how repubs have high registration ratios and always vote... and that the high new registration numbers generally reflect dissatisfaction with the current regime... strongly favoring Dems.
I also object to rejecting applications on this basis alone for an entirely different reason- it's too easy for partisans to mold the electorate to their liking by helping their side along, checking the box for the voter on some ballots, and not others... Dunno how it works in Florida, but in Ohio, the forms are scanned and then destroyed. The heavy paper requirement there was a relic of a time when the card was the permanent record...
I think what's most important is to honor the intent of the voter. They already stated that they are a citizen when they signed the form, once should be enough. Yeh, sure, if they leave out some important part, like their signature, then the application should be rejected...This whole thing reminds me of how ballots were voided in some Florida counties because the voter checked the box next to a candidate's name, then wrote in the same name as a write-in... Dumb? Sure, but their intent was crystal clear...
I'm quite partisan, myself, as I'm sure many of you have noticed. There are, however, some issues that transcend partisanship, and the right to vote is one of them. More than once, I took my now deceased elderly neighbor to the polls when her party-sponsored ride failed to show, even though she was a rabid Republican. It was her right, and my responsibility as a good neighbor to help her when the occasion demanded it...
http://www.reachm.com/amstreet...-and-leaning-democrat/
That ratio isn't necessarily everywhere, the ratio I mentioned is for Ohio, preliminary newscast commentary indicates much the same here in Colorado. I may well have jumped to conclusions, taking what I've heard about particular areas to the general case. If so, Mea Culpa.
There was also some commentary from Chris Matthews this morning on NBC about how repubs have high registration ratios and always vote... and that the high new registration numbers generally reflect dissatisfaction with the current regime... strongly favoring Dems.
I also object to rejecting applications on this basis alone for an entirely different reason- it's too easy for partisans to mold the electorate to their liking by helping their side along, checking the box for the voter on some ballots, and not others... Dunno how it works in Florida, but in Ohio, the forms are scanned and then destroyed. The heavy paper requirement there was a relic of a time when the card was the permanent record...
I think what's most important is to honor the intent of the voter. They already stated that they are a citizen when they signed the form, once should be enough. Yeh, sure, if they leave out some important part, like their signature, then the application should be rejected...This whole thing reminds me of how ballots were voided in some Florida counties because the voter checked the box next to a candidate's name, then wrote in the same name as a write-in... Dumb? Sure, but their intent was crystal clear...
I'm quite partisan, myself, as I'm sure many of you have noticed. There are, however, some issues that transcend partisanship, and the right to vote is one of them. More than once, I took my now deceased elderly neighbor to the polls when her party-sponsored ride failed to show, even though she was a rabid Republican. It was her right, and my responsibility as a good neighbor to help her when the occasion demanded it...
Yeah this uptick in registration is the best news for Dems in a long time. Your post deserves its own thread. News of new voter registration is big.
Of course, then you get to the issue of partisanship there as well. "intent" of the voter can sometimes be difficult to judge, and you are walking along a very fine line. I've seen videos of the 2000 florida votes. Do you count the vote with 1 hanging chad? 2? 3 corners? What if you vote for Bush and a 2nd party?
In your scenario intent is rather clear, but what about the person judging that intent?
I don't understand why people are having such difficulty. We have 3rd graders taking scantron tests in elementary schools without problems. If vision is the issue, as I mentioned earlier, can you really trust their vote at all?
I think this is not a reflection of partisanship, but rather the utter stupidity of the American public. It's one thing not to care about voting, but IMO another entirely to do so and not do it properly.
I agree with you here.
It's a valid concern considering the last election. To ignore that question (if not possibility), is quite frankly.... ignorant.
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Is this "minor technicality" similar to the minor technicalities keeping Nader off ballots?
Nader was missing signatures and wasn't registered under a certain party. This deals with a redundant question which everyone assumes already you're a US citizen or you wouldn't be filling the form. Information gets verified anyways so not having the top box checked does nothing else than throw out legitimate voters.
...not only that, this supports our side in an important state. I agree with you that we should take whatever means necessary to get all these ballots counted--even circumvent the rules if need be as you're suggesting.Originally posted by: JHoNNy1OoO
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Is this "minor technicality" similar to the minor technicalities keeping Nader off ballots?
Nader was missing signatures and wasn't registered under a certain party. This deals with a redundant question which everyone assumes already you're a US citizen or you wouldn't be filling the form. Information gets verified anyways so not having the top box checked does nothing else than throw out legitimate voters.
After all, sometimes a few eggs gotta be broken to make omelets
All the obfuscation really doesn't aid your argument, guys. The central question remains unchanged-
How many times should a person have to claim their citizenship on a single form?
Claiming that more than once is acceptable practice is to assert the right of Catch-22 to rule our lives. What if twice isn't enough? How about 57 times?
Nobody has addressed the possibility of partisanship playing a part in the processing of the forms, either- if the errant applicant is on your team, just check the box for them- I'm sure that the law doesn't demand the same ink throughout...
The presence of checkboxes on this kind of form invites fraud and favoritism, no matter who's running the show...
How many times should a person have to claim their citizenship on a single form?
Claiming that more than once is acceptable practice is to assert the right of Catch-22 to rule our lives. What if twice isn't enough? How about 57 times?
Nobody has addressed the possibility of partisanship playing a part in the processing of the forms, either- if the errant applicant is on your team, just check the box for them- I'm sure that the law doesn't demand the same ink throughout...
The presence of checkboxes on this kind of form invites fraud and favoritism, no matter who's running the show...
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Can you answer the question???
.....Crickets
No of course not, what was I thinking???
No need to be confused. I cannot answer the question because I don't have the data. But what I can tell you is that to start asking how many African Americans there were that we denied their right to vote is akin to asking how many of another group there were. The race card is so damn easy to pull, but when you pull it have some facts to back it up. CAN YOU ANSWER IT? No of course not, so why pull it? I tell you what, let's all cry foul and discrimination against minorities with absolutley no basis for it..... sound like fun?
Ok, where are the numbers that show there was discrimination here? Or are we just going to yell fire in a theatre because we can?
While you are at it, so your statement has some clout to it, show me an unbiased report with hard data depicting African Americans having their voting rights invalidated during the last election.
I am not the only one that needs to answer questions if you want to pull the race card....
Seems like the implication that blacks are being targetted is the argument that needs defending...Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Can you answer the question???
.....Crickets
No of course not, what was I thinking???
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