Voter fraud is the biggest lie of 2012

[trenchfoot]

Like I said before: The Repubs are the ONLY political party pushing for voter ID laws, laws which (conveniently for them) disenfranchises the poor, the elderly and the young. Such being the case, if the Repubs went through so much trouble to put these laws into place, why haven't they taken the next logical step by making registering easier for those voters who were disadvantaged by these laws, instead of making it harder for them? If the Repubs wanted to prevent voter fraud, they could easily have done it without disadvantaging ANY legal voter, if they really wanted to.

From this point of view the answer becomes pretty obvious....both factually and undeniably obvious.

 

[nehalem256]

Like I said before: The Repubs are the ONLY political party pushing for voter ID laws, laws which (conveniently for them) disenfranchises the poor, the elderly and the young. Such being the case, if the Repubs went through so much trouble to put these laws into place, why haven't they taken the next logical step by making registering easier for those voters who were disadvantaged by these laws, instead of making it harder for them? If the Repubs wanted to prevent voter fraud, they could easily have done it without disadvantaging ANY legal voter, if they really wanted to.

From this point of view the answer becomes pretty obvious....both factually and undeniably obvious.

To prevent voter fraud it is necessary to provide documentation of you identity. As liberals have claimed there are people with no documentation of their identity whatsoever, but yet these people are still "legal voters", what you are suggesting is literally impossible.

And of course the reason that Democrats are opposed to voter id as was stated on the last page they want illegals to vote (for them).

In my state all that is needed to register is a utility bill. That is a nondocumentary source of ID according to the PATRIOT act. Yet valid to register?

Lets say I'm a migrant worker. No drivers license. I don't own property. I registered with a cell phone in "my" (someone elses) name and the SSN to match.

How would you prove I don't have a legitimate right to vote?

The standard to vote should be at least as stringent as it is to open a checking account. Anything less is de facto admitting we don't care about voting fraud as much as we do money laundering.

Just use the same rules for voter id as are the id rules for legally working in the US. Of course ironically a driver's license is not even sufficient ID for working.

 

[Jhhnn]

In my state all that is needed to register is a utility bill. That is a nondocumentary source of ID according to the PATRIOT act. Yet valid to register?

That's impossible to verify, given your forum profile.Nor does it justify photo ID requirements.

Lets say I'm a migrant worker. No drivers license. I don't own property. I registered with a cell phone in "my" (someone elses) name and the SSN to match.

How would you prove I don't have a legitimate right to vote?

You assume there's some upside to that, no potential downside, and basically that some vast illegal voter conspiracy exists for it to affect an election.

The standard to vote should be at least as stringent as it is to open a checking account. Anything less is de facto admitting we don't care about voting fraud as much as we do money laundering.

If you really think about it at all, other than asserting what you already believe, you'd realize that Repubs have been waving the voter fraud boogeyman around for a decade or more, and have undoubtedly expended considerable effort of all sorts to prove the claims, yet have come up basically empty-handed.

But you still *Believe* in a way that's much like religion.

 

[Jhhnn]

To prevent voter fraud it is necessary to provide documentation of you identity. As liberals have claimed there are people with no documentation of their identity whatsoever, but yet these people are still "legal voters", what you are suggesting is literally impossible.

And of course the reason that Democrats are opposed to voter id as was stated on the last page they want illegals to vote (for them).

Just use the same rules for voter id as are the id rules for legally working in the US. Of course ironically a driver's license is not even sufficient ID for working.

There is no evidence other than right wing accusation that Dems want to enable illegals voting for them, period. The accusation is baseless, scurrilous & shameful, asserting slander & innuendo as fact.

The only thing it takes to work in this country is a valid SS number. As a practical matter, an applicant doesn't even really need to have the card itself. Obviously, that's not the standard you want to apply to voting, making your assertion dishonest at best.

 

[shira]

I think the right should take the same approach to voter fraud that they advocate for climate change.

The righties tell us that we don't have adequate data demonstrating that human behavior is responsible for warming, and they also tell us that the proposed solutions may have large negative consequences. So they recommend that we continue to study the issue for another 10 to 20 years, and if by that time the data is convincing that humans are the problem, only then should we take aggressive steps to mitigate MMCC.

That sounds like a perfect solution for voter fraud. There's essentially zero evidence that voter fraud is a problem. Yet there's a lot of evidence that requiring IDs might suppress hundreds of thousands - even millions of votes. So the right should clearly be advocating that we "study the issue" for another 10 to 20 years, and if at that time we determine that voter fraud really is a problem - and that voter suppression isn't a problem (or can be mitigated), only then should we implement voter ID laws.

So I'm curious how the right will respond to this very reasonable suggestion, given that they advocate this same approach for climate change.

Righties?

 

[TerryMathews]

There is no evidence other than right wing accusation that Dems want to enable illegals voting for them, period. The accusation is baseless, scurrilous & shameful, asserting slander & innuendo as fact.

The only thing it takes to work in this country is a valid SS number. As a practical matter, an applicant doesn't even really need to have the card itself. Obviously, that's not the standard you want to apply to voting, making your assertion dishonest at best.

Obviously you've never filled out an I-9 form before...

 

[a777pilot]

There is no evidence other than right wing accusation that Dems want to enable illegals voting for them, period. The accusation is baseless, scurrilous & shameful, asserting slander & innuendo as fact.

The only thing it takes to work in this country is a valid SS number. As a practical matter, an applicant doesn't even really need to have the card itself. Obviously, that's not the standard you want to apply to voting, making your assertion dishonest at best.

This is funny....

"There is no evidence other than right wing accusation that Dems want to enable illegals voting for them, period. The accusation is baseless, scurrilous & shameful, asserting slander & innuendo as fact."

I don't know where you live Jhhnn, but I doubt it is in the SW. Every time there is a demonstration against laws like SP 1070 that attracts large crowds of "hispanics", there are always Democrat workers there trying to register as many demonstrators as possible......citizens or not.

There in not one state that requires actual proof of citizenship to register to vote.....not one.

Illegals, the made up and the dead have always been a Democrat voting block.


....but thanks for the laugh this morning.


p.s., To work in this country one needs a name, date of birth and a SS number that all match. Not just a SS number.

But then even the Democrat President can't get over that smiple qualification.

 

[Tom]

To prevent voter fraud it is necessary to provide documentation of you identity. As liberals have claimed there are people with no documentation of their identity whatsoever, but yet these people are still "legal voters", what you are suggesting is literally impossible.

And of course the reason that Democrats are opposed to voter id as was stated on the last page they want illegals to vote (for them).



Just use the same rules for voter id as are the id rules for legally working in the US. Of course ironically a driver's license is not even sufficient ID for working.

There's no requirement to have a job to vote so that idea is very bad.

ID is already required by all states, a birth certificate. The issue here is requiring a state issued photo id card, which is redundant and does nothing about voter fraud.

All it does is place a new hurdle for those voters that for whatever reason have no need for a photo id. And any time there's a new requirement, some percentage of those affected will just stop voting.

And becasue the groups this affects, the elderly, the poor, the disabled, tend to vote Democratic, the Republicans see this as a political advantage.

And since the Republican party has become the home of the bigoted, they can appeal to their audience by blaming "illegals", welfare moms, blacks, disabled, and gays if they figure out an angle.

 

[Jhhnn]

Obviously you've never filled out an I-9 form before...

True, since I've been at the same employer since before 1986.

The simple fact that the I-9 form is prepared by the employer & is not filed externally tells us that it's one of those "tell me you love me and then you can have sex with me" deals, and utterly unrelated to picture ID for voting purposes.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf

It's a charade, a beard for anybody hiring illegals.

 

[Jhhnn]

Illegals, the made up and the dead have always been a Democrat voting block.

Assertion of Faith as Fact only works on people who are hearing what they want to believe. You obviously qualify.

Wing-nuttery isn't politics- it's religion, so no amount of reason or introduction of fact can change that. If anything, reason & facts cause the afflicted to retrench, employ denial as a means of resolving cognitive dissonance.

 

[Pens1566]

ID isn't required to open a bank account. Did it online within the last year at a completely new bank. Not a local mom and pop either. BB&T.

 

[Paul98]

So how is this going to stop voter fraud? I see nothing here that will do much at all to prevent voter fraud.

 

[a777pilot]

Assertion of Faith as Fact only works on people who are hearing what they want to believe. You obviously qualify.

Wing-nuttery isn't politics- it's religion, so no amount of reason or introduction of fact can change that. If anything, reason & facts cause the afflicted to retrench, employ denial as a means of resolving cognitive dissonance.

If you really don't believe that the dead, the made up and illegals don't vote and vote in large numbers than you need to get out in the real world and look around.

Again thanks for the laugh and the example of rectal-cranial inversion.

 

[a777pilot]

So how is this going to stop voter fraud? I see nothing here that will do much at all to prevent voter fraud.

You are correct. Voter ID well do little to improve the voting process and make it fairer.

To do that we would have to start with proof that those that register are in fact eligible to vote, i.e., alive, at least 18, are who they say they are, not convicted of a felony (in most States) and of course a citizen of the United States of America. But even that will not ensure the absence of voter fraud in places like Cook County.

 

[fskimospy]

If you really don't believe that the dead, the made up and illegals don't vote and vote in large numbers than you need to get out in the real world and look around.

Again thanks for the laugh and the example of rectal-cranial inversion.

Well if they vote in large numbers it should be easy for you to provide evidence for this. We will be waiting, so please get back to us with that ASAP.

 

[CycloWizard]

Because leaving their homes to pick up an ID card is an EXTRA step. Furthermore, absentee balloting allows voters to cast their ballots without leaving their homes.

Are you claiming that adding an ID requirement will suppress 0 votes? If there are 750,000 registered Pennsylvania voters without IDs, are you claiming that none of these who would otherwise vote will fail to vote because of the new ID rule? IS THIS REALLY YOUR CLAIM?

Now, answer the fvcking question, you fraud: How many votes suppressed is worth one fraudulent vote prevented?

Answer the question. ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Calm down, psycho. You asked a stupid question and require a literal answer to satisfy your absurd line of reasoning. I doubt you'll find this satisfactory, but this is the answer: I would set the bar that zero people should be disenfranchised by an unreasonable burden to vote.

Then the question becomes: what constitutes a reasonable burden? I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to make a single trip to get an ID with four years' notice (which is how much notice given by all such laws that I am familiar with). Your argument is simply that these people are too lazy/irresponsible to do even that. Fine. We could establish a census-like system whereby door-to-door workers distribute IDs to everyone in their own homes. Would you find this system acceptable?

 

[a777pilot]

Well if they vote in large numbers it should be easy for you to provide evidence for this. We will be waiting, so please get back to us with that ASAP.

You wouldn't believe me if I proved the sky is blue.

I direct your attention to Minnesota, California, Texas, Washington, Illinois, Florida, Missouri, South Dakota, Louisiana. Those are just a few States that have recent Democrat voter fraud. Spend some time and research on your own. You just might learn something.

 

[a777pilot]

p.s., This is who I want to vote: Every citizen of this country that wants to and is eligible.

Let me know if you find any restrictions in that statement that you find objectionable.

 

[Jhhnn]

If you really don't believe that the dead, the made up and illegals don't vote and vote in large numbers than you need to get out in the real world and look around.

Again thanks for the laugh and the example of rectal-cranial inversion.

Heh. As if the paranoid fantasies in your head are the real world, or that they're more than tangential nuttiness. As I offered, the introduction of reason & fact just causes true believers to retreat deeper into the bunker o' denial, hurling epithets over their shoulder as they dive in behind the sandbags.

If those things were true in significant measure, there'd be proof rather than empty accusation. There's not, of course, making vo-ter fraud! vo-ter fraud! vo-ter fraud! just another mindless rightwing chant of affirmation & group identity.

 

[Jhhnn]

You wouldn't believe me if I proved the sky is blue.

I direct your attention to Minnesota, California, Texas, Washington, Illinois, Florida, Missouri, South Dakota, Louisiana. Those are just a few States that have recent Democrat voter fraud. Spend some time and research on your own. You just might learn something.

Standard right wing dodge, asserting that your detractors do the research rather than providing any in support of your contentions.

 

[fskimospy]

You wouldn't believe me if I proved the sky is blue.

I direct your attention to Minnesota, California, Texas, Washington, Illinois, Florida, Missouri, South Dakota, Louisiana. Those are just a few States that have recent Democrat voter fraud. Spend some time and research on your own. You just might learn something.

I'm simply asking you to back up a claim you made. Since you have just named about 10 states, surely there is some credible evidence for this. Please provide it.

BTW I already know that such evidence does not exist, I just want you to go look for it and realize just how this is a fact free article of religious faith for you, not an actual policy position to hold.

 

[Jhhnn]

p.s., This is who I want to vote: Every citizen of this country that wants to and is eligible.

Let me know if you find any restrictions in that statement that you find objectionable.

Depends on how one defines "eligible", doesn't it?

Years ago, Jim Crow defined it differently than today, and Repub efforts are apparently an effort to honor his memory... well, without actually referencing him by name.

 

[Paul98]

There should be a good system in place to prevent voter fraud.

But what the republicans are doing is worse than the problem, and won't prevent voter fraud. They are simply trying to get those who will most likely vote democrat to not be able to vote. This is sick and they should be thrown in jail.

What we do need is a long term plan to get a good system to register anyone who wants to and can vote. Something that takes 5+ years to get fully in place, then years of large scale real testing. Voter fraud is not a large problem right now, but we can't see the future and I would like to see a system in place before there is some sort of large scale event that causes the government to act.

 

[a777pilot]

Depends on how one defines "eligible", doesn't it?

Years ago, Jim Crow defined it differently than today, and Repub efforts are apparently an effort to honor his memory... well, without actually referencing him by name.

Fair point.

In this case, to vote, I would define "eligible" as being alive, with proof that you are who you say you are, your age, and most importantly that you are a citizen of the United States of America.

How is that restrictive to anyone other than the dead, the made up and the non-citizens?

Yes, even under my system people can and would cheat. Such is human nature, but it sure would reduce the fraud to a manageable level.

p.s., To keep fraud under control I also would ban all computer voting. Just use paper ballots. One can still cheat using paper but it is not as easy to cover up.

 

[a777pilot]

There should be a good system in place to prevent voter fraud.

But what the republicans are doing is worse than the problem, and won't prevent voter fraud. They are simply trying to get those who will most likely vote democrat to not be able to vote. This is sick and they should be thrown in jail.

What we do need is a long term plan to get a good system to register anyone who wants to and can vote. Something that takes 5+ years to get fully in place, then years of large scale real testing. Voter fraud is not a large problem right now, but we can't see the future and I would like to see a system in place before there is some sort of large scale event that causes the government to act.

I disagree with your interpretation of what the Repubicans are doing.

I support your idea of a do-over in the system of registering to vote. Good idea. Just so long as everyone that is re-registered is an actually living person that is a citizen of this nation and is only registered in one place.