Voter fraud is the biggest lie of 2012

[Humpy]

What is the function of an ID card?

It provides verified information.

Why does that information need to be physically carried to the polling place in the form of a card by each individual?

It seems that the same info on the card can be looked at on an electronic display that is connected to a database of all eligible voters. It doesn't really matter how the information arrives at the polling place. The procedure for matching the info with the person is the same regardless.

Voting needs to made as easy as possible in order to encourage participation. Adding to the process a trip to some antiquated government office to pick up a little laminated card is 1950's thinking and is probably the most expensive option all things considered.

 

[cybrsage]

It is easier to show the card than take the time and expense to use a system to look it up.

 

[TerryMathews]

What is the function of an ID card?

It provides verified information.

Why does that information need to be physically carried to the polling place in the form of a card by each individual?

It seems that the same info on the card can be looked at on an electronic display that is connected to a database of all eligible voters. It doesn't really matter how the information arrives at the polling place. The procedure for matching the info with the person is the same regardless.

Voting needs to made as easy as possible in order to encourage participation. Adding to the process a trip to some antiquated government office to pick up a little laminated card is 1950's thinking and is probably the most expensive option all things considered.

So instead of utilizing an existing process to have a documentary source of ID, you want the polling places to maintain a seperate photo database of all registered voters so that they can verify eligibility at polling?

Remember some of these "eligible" voters claim they CAN'T get a state issued ID so QED they're not in the DMV database.

 

[dank69]

This. The constitution imposes the limitation that you must be a citizen to vote. QED you must have a way to verify citizenship.

PATRIOT act requires two forms of ID to open any bank account. Social Security will shortly be requiring people on SS to have a bank account. Why is this even an issue?

I suppose you think the PATRIOT Act is a good thing, too?

 

[nehalem256]

Telling someone they have to state who they are if they want to vote is not the same thing as forcing them to obtain ID. Everyone knows this.

Correct in that forcing them to present ID proves their identity. If you ask there is nothing to keep them from lying.

What is the function of an ID card?

It provides verified information.

Why does that information need to be physically carried to the polling place in the form of a card by each individual?

It seems that the same info on the card can be looked at on an electronic display that is connected to a database of all eligible voters. It doesn't really matter how the information arrives at the polling place. The procedure for matching the info with the person is the same regardless.

Voting needs to made as easy as possible in order to encourage participation. Adding to the process a trip to some antiquated government office to pick up a little laminated card is 1950's thinking and is probably the most expensive option all things considered.

Because the government does and in fact cannot have the equivalent of photo ID unless your traipse down to a government office an obtain.

Remember to carry your ID after having done that is not difficult. At least not for Republicans 😛

 

[dank69]

So instead of utilizing an existing process to have a documentary source of ID, you want the polling places to maintain a seperate photo database of all registered voters so that they can verify eligibility at polling?

Remember some of these "eligible" voters claim they CAN'T get a state issued ID so QED they're not in the DMV database.

Why would someone go in person to vote fraudulently when they could just obtain an absentee ballot? It makes zero sense, which is why even RNC studies can't find evidence to support this laughable claim. Use your heads instead of mindlessly gobbling the shit the RNC is putting on your plate.

 

[nehalem256]

Why would someone go in person to vote fraudulently when they could just obtain an absentee ballot? It makes zero sense, which is why even RNC studies can't find evidence to support this laughable claim. Use your heads instead of mindlessly gobbling the shit the RNC is putting on your plate.

Because an absentee ballot requires an address for you to receive your absentee ballot. If you are going to be committing fraud it is not a good idea to give out where you can be found.

And you can add security to absentee voting be requiring voters to print the Driver's License ID on the ballot, so it can be verified.

 

[Humpy]

So instead of utilizing an existing process to have a documentary source of ID, you want the polling places to maintain a seperate photo database of all registered voters so that they can verify eligibility at polling?

Remember some of these "eligible" voters claim they CAN'T get a state issued ID so QED they're not in the DMV database.

I think the unified database of eligible voters is really what we want, no? I don't see why voter's even absolutely need to be "registered". Why does the government need to accumulate data in so many separate and varied departments. Combine basic IRS, DMV, SS, Military, voting, birth records, etc, data into one easily accessed format. Call it "FaceVote" or something and let the poling place access it.

I'm not convinced it has to necessarily include a photo. A security question or two may be equally as accurate. It works OK for business.

I'd also consider somehow paying people to vote if it resulted in maximum participation. Starbucks or Apple coupons or something.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

In 2008, the Supreme Court in Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, 553 U.S. 181, upheld an Indiana law requiring voters to provide photo IDs did not violate the Constitution of the United States by a vote of 6-3. The majority opinion was written by left leaning John Paul Stevens. Voter ID is not a poll tax.

When I came to the United States, I received Food Stamps. (had refugee status) I had to show ID.

Food stamps have nothing to do with voting rights, I think this has been made clear.

As that law is written is it possible to go vote and avoid paying anything nor have to show voter id, probably why the SCOTUS judged it constitutional.

Efforts by Republicans to keep potential low income and minority voters away may be unethical but constitutional.

The gray areas lie how much of a barrier to voting a law can put up (this would fall under the "other tax" of the 24th amendment). However I dont see how SCOTUS could rule a law requiring you to pay for an ID not to violate the 24th Amendment's clear word on paying to vote.

 

[techs]

The one thing that people seem to be ignoring is that Republican voter suppression is fundamentally altering peoples perception of America and our Democracy.

If there is another fiasco in 2012 like in Florida and people on one side can blame what they see as the others voter suppression that has "stolen" an election I don't think it will go down peacefully.

If people feel that the political system is being manipulated you will see violence in the streets.
Perhaps even worse is that you will see true demagogue candidates start being elected. The Army at polling places becomes possible when one side sees the other side as capable and willing to steal elections.

The whole voter suppression thing is going to be the last straw for America. We have already been provoked into partisan hatred by the right wings fear tactics. The next step is going to turn the US into a Venezuala where a long suppressed majority rises up to the call of a demagogue.

 

[cybrsage]

I suppose you think the PATRIOT Act is a good thing, too?

Obama and the dems in Congress do.

 

[cybrsage]

The one thing that people seem to be ignoring is that Republican voter suppression is fundamentally altering peoples perception of America and our Democracy.

You would be correct if there was actually any suppression.

When are you going to say which time you lied? Did you lie in your thread title when you claim voter fraud is a lie or did you lie in your OP when you claimed voter fraud is real?

 

[techs]

You would be correct if there was actually any suppression.

When are you going to say which time you lied? Did you lie in your thread title when you claim voter fraud is a lie or did you lie in your OP when you claimed voter fraud is real?

Thanks for that example of why people no longer see any hope of dealing with Republicans on any kind of rational basis.

 

[blankslate]

No, you are still living in fantasy land if you think 300,000 otherwise eligable voters are incapable of obtaining a photo ID.

It's a matter of how easy it is and what counts according to the law as valid ID.

A lot of people don't drive, because they don't need to. Interestingly enough these people are either senior citizens who are unable to vote and people who live in cities and don't need a car.

Sure there can be other forms of ID but are they harder to obtain than a driver's license?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_...d-law-in-pa-could-prevent-750000-from-voting/

The other valid IDs include Among those acceptable forms of photo ID include a state-issued driver's license, a valid U.S. passport, a U.S. military ID, a government-issued employee ID, an ID card from an accredited Pennsylvania higher learning institution, or a photo ID card issued by a Pennsylvania care facility, such as an assisted living residence or personal care home.

• passports generally more expensive to obtain than a driver's license
• Goverment Employee ED not everyone without a driver's license is a government employee
• Accredited PA higher leaning instution same as Gov. Employee ID
• PA care facility ID not everyone who doesn't have an ID needs care assistance

Considering that there's no guarantee that the article mentions 600k voters without a driver's license which I cut in halft to 300k as a guesstimate to account for the other IDs....

Even if voters are classified as "inactive" with 100 percent accuracy, however, that leaves nearly 600,000 "active" voters who lack driver's licenses and may not be able to cast their votes on Election Day.

You're the one living in a fantasy land if you think that these voter ID laws as they are written now don't have the potential to affect the voting results more than instances of voter fraud.

He is saying when you remove all the fraudulant votes, the number of votes dems will receive is far, far lower than when you allow it. At least that is one very reasonable way of understanding what he said.

Or a convenient way for you to spin it. Nice effort though.

What is the function of an ID card? It provides verified information.

Additionally when you register to vote your are required to present forms of ID and every driver's license I have seen has had the licensee's signature on it.
Then you provide another signature for their records which they verify by having you sign in at the polling place.

As I've say before if we really need a voter picture ID then...

have the office where you register to vote issue the picture IDs... which would have to be very very low cost (no more than a couple of bucks) and last at least as long as a passport, as well as practically free to replace (the individual would have to ask for a replacement in person).

Additionally, have the office keep odd days like Wed. thru Sun. or Sat. thru Wed. (or even rotate between the two every so often) so that people who would have a difficult time coming in on a weekday could go on the weekends. Or optionally be open for offset hours like 11:30 to 19:30 hrs for example.

On further thought about the above the IDs would also have their number listed next to the name of the person (in addition to the signature) in the voter lists that the polling person checks the person against already.

No comment on that. instead it's all about 300k and fantasy lands... etc. etc.

 

[TerryMathews]

I suppose you think the PATRIOT Act is a good thing, too?

Evidently a majority of our Congress critters did. Twice.

Good or bad it is the law of the land.

 

[TerryMathews]

It's a matter of how easy it is and what counts according to the law as valid ID.

A lot of people don't drive, because they don't need to. Interestingly enough these people are either senior citizens who are unable to vote and people who live in cities and don't need a car.

Sure there can be other forms of ID but are they harder to obtain than a driver's license?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_...d-law-in-pa-could-prevent-750000-from-voting/

• passports generally more expensive to obtain than a driver's license
• Goverment Employee ED not everyone without a driver's license is a government employee
• Accredited PA higher leaning instution same as Gov. Employee ID
• PA care facility ID not everyone who doesn't have an ID needs care assistance

Considering that there's no guarantee that the article mentions 600k voters without a driver's license which I cut in halft to 300k as a guesstimate to account for the other IDs....
You're the one living in a fantasy land if you think that these voter ID laws as they are written now don't have the potential to affect the voting results more than instances of voter fraud.

Or a convenient way for you to spin it. Nice effort though.


Additionally when you register to vote your are required to present forms of ID and every driver's license I have seen has had the licensee's signature on it.
Then you provide another signature for their records which they verify by having you sign in at the polling place.

As I've say before if we really need a voter picture ID then...
On further thought about the above the IDs would also have their number listed next to the name of the person (in addition to the signature) in the voter lists that the polling person checks the person against already.

No comment on that. instead it's all about 300k and fantasy lands... etc. etc.

Most states also have a state issued ID for nondrivers. In Ohio they come from the BMV.

 

[dank69]

Evidently a majority of our Congress critters did. Twice.

Good or bad it is the law of the land.

I asked if YOU think it is a good thing.

 

[cybrsage]

Thanks for that example of why people no longer see any hope of dealing with Republicans on any kind of rational basis.

You did not answer the question.

When are you going to say which time you lied? Did you lie in your thread title when you claim voter fraud is a lie or did you lie in your OP when you claimed voter fraud is real?

 

[techs]

The Republicans have not produced even a shred of evidence that voter fraud is occuring.

In many states they have the Governership and the Legislature in their hands and they have not produced a shred of evidence.

Half the country is Republican and they have don't even have any valid citizens complaints that have shown a shred of evidence.

Even at my advanced age and poor health I will go to Washington and be civilly disobediant if the Republican voter suppression continues.

And I will be one of the few who are merely civilly disobedient.

Though, if on a jury I will exonerate anyone who kills someone who attempts voter suppression. In my opinion that is treason and I will defend my country.

 

[cybrsage]

Or a convenient way for you to spin it. Nice effort though.

We both posted spins on it, just in opposite directions. Which you choose to believe is decided by your biases.

 

[cybrsage]

Though, if on a jury I will exonerate anyone who kills someone who attempts voter suppression. In my opinion that is treason and I will defend my country.

Why are you not currently murdering people who require voters to register. You know this disenfranchises people, right? So, using your own logic, it is an act of treason and you must go out and wage war against them.

Which state are you going to start in?

 

[zinfamous]

I enjoy this topic as it's small government folk trying to legislate against a non-existent problem.

just like the welfare "freeloaders." 😀


But, in all honestly, I do think it's a bit absurd that there is no requirement for photo ID in voting; considering all the things for which we are required to show proof of ID.

though, tbh...how true is that? I was always asked to show mine when arriving to vote.

:hmm:

(this is in NC, IL, and CA)

 

[techs]

You did not answer the question.

When are you going to say which time you lied? Did you lie in your thread title when you claim voter fraud is a lie or did you lie in your OP when you claimed voter fraud is real?

Hey, dumbo, did you read the post. There is no evidence that voter fraud exists.
The Republicans just cut off 750,000 people from the voting list in Pennsylvania.

 

[techs]

Why are you not currently murdering people who require voters to register. You know this disenfranchises people, right? So, using your own logic, it is an act of treason and you must go out and wage war against them.

Which state are you going to start in?

Further proof that the Republicans are no longer capable of logical reasoning.

 

[cybrsage]

Further proof that the Republicans are no longer capable of logical reasoning.

You said two opposite things, then cry when I point it out. What a baby.

When are you going to say which time you lied? Did you lie in your thread title when you claim voter fraud is a lie or did you lie in your OP when you claimed voter fraud is real?