voter disenfranchisement in OHIO caught on camera

[KK]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: KK
Exactly, and to further that this video is completely useless and totally not reliable, michael moore was in it along with that racist Jessie Jackson.

Hey, genius. Michael Moore had a grassroots movement of people with video cameras go to polling places in OH and FL to catch such shenanigans. Of course he's involved.

Are you afraid of the truth?

The truth would only reveal the big lie. The big lie isn't Bush, it is within themselves and that's what they fear the most.

Are you taking moonbeam's latest course? 😉

LOL @ the moonbeam joke.

If Moore was interested in the truth then he'd be more respected, but when your whole existance on earth is to bash and try to bring down the republican conservatives, then why should anyone listen to him. Unless of course if you are liberal and are hatefilled, like so many liberals here are.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: KK
Exactly, and to further that this video is completely useless and totally not reliable, michael moore was in it along with that racist Jessie Jackson.

Hey, genius. Michael Moore had a grassroots movement of people with video cameras go to polling places in OH and FL to catch such shenanigans. Of course he's involved.

Are you afraid of the truth?

The Mooron himself does not present truth. He's a satirist, right?

I will admit he's quite smart. He sells his snake oil to every idiot in the country and they bow down to his ugly ass like a liberal Jesus.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: KK
Exactly, and to further that this video is completely useless and totally not reliable, michael moore was in it along with that racist Jessie Jackson.

Hey, genius. Michael Moore had a grassroots movement of people with video cameras go to polling places in OH and FL to catch such shenanigans. Of course he's involved.

Are you afraid of the truth?

The truth would only reveal the big lie. The big lie isn't Bush, it is within themselves and that's what they fear the most.

Are you taking moonbeam's latest course? 😉

I'd like to think we all have a little Moonbeam in us. Oh wait, that didn't sound good.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: KK
Exactly, and to further that this video is completely useless and totally not reliable, michael moore was in it along with that racist Jessie Jackson.

Hey, genius. Michael Moore had a grassroots movement of people with video cameras go to polling places in OH and FL to catch such shenanigans. Of course he's involved.

Are you afraid of the truth?

The truth would only reveal the big lie. The big lie isn't Bush, it is within themselves and that's what they fear the most.

Are you taking moonbeam's latest course? 😉

I'd like to think we all have a little Moonbeam in us. Oh wait, that didn't sound good.

At least you didn't post this in that *other* thread. 😉

 

[b0mbrman]

I wish Kerry won 🙁

 

[klah]

All these names missing from the ballot...

Funny how all these people's names are disappearing from the list...

Is there a single person with their Voter Registration Precinct Card that is not on the voter rolls at the precinct listed on their Voter Registration Precinct Card? One person?

Every registered voter receives a Voter Registration Precinct Card yet I did not see a single person in that video present their Voter Registration Precinct Card as evidence they were at the proper precinct.

Voter Registration Precinct Card = evidence.

So you dont think that voters complaining about harassment is real proof?

No.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur
Damn...that is complete BULLSH*T!!!

:| :| :| :|

What was? I see nothing in that tape but unsubstantiated claims.

If they can use hidden cameras to catch everything from car thieves to corrupt politicians, they can use them to catch REAL footage of REAL intimidation.

Funny how no real acts were caught on tape. Why?

What is even funnier is that Moore did not add clips of Democrats in Florida ganging up on early voters inside voting areas and REALLY intimidating voters.

In fact, that is the only verifiable case of voter intimidation so far.

Perhaps the topic title is incorrect but the content of that video cries out voter disenfranchisement!

No it doesn't. I see two people forced to cast provisional ballots for reasons unknown. I see one or two claiming voting challengers were looking over their shoulders, and I see a bunch of others just talking sh!t.

The video cries out nothing but "inflammatory propaganda." Congrats on falling for it.

People saying they've lived in area for 20 years and their name isn't on the ballot? Two of the Republican challengers hanging around outside in an apparent attempt to dissuade people from voting and finally leave when they see the video camera? Hmm....

We see NOTHING of the sort. We see two people outside. We see them do nothing but avoid the camera.

We hear people say they have lived in the same place for 20 years, and we hear them say they are registered, but no proof is offered and no "facts" checked.

Again, this is nothing but unsubstantiated claims. There is NOTHING on the tape that shows anything remotely criminal if you have the objectivity to look past the obvious attempt to make people think something is going on.

funny how conspiracy theories are only brought out at the persons convenience. You easily question the integrity of the voters, but yet you dont question the integrity of the challengers. If this were an isolated
incident then I think that it would be more likely be questionable, but the fact is that its NOT. This has been happening all over the country, but this is one of the few times anything was caught on tape. And yes some may say this is an isolated incident, but the fact is its not. Just give it some more time for more evidence to come out.

What was caught on tape???

Some people claiming they weren't on the lists was all I saw. I also saw people claiming intimidation, but I saw NO intimidation. I also saw no proof that the people making claims of being off the list had, in fact, registered. The burden of proof lies on those claiming wrong doing here. I question the claims because to question otherwise would be to demand someone prove a negative.

One person is accusing another of a crime. In this country, one is considered innocent until PROVED guilty. There is NO proof in this video. You simply believe it because you WANT to believe it. You WANT it to be true.

The video cries out nothing but "inflammatory propaganda." Congrats on falling for it.

Why is it propaganda? Because its has jesse jackson and michael moore in it? The minute any repub see any of those two people their eyes glaze over and all logic leaves their senses. It was a mistake imho to put those two individuals in the video for that exact reason, but it is a mistake to dismiss the implications of the video simply because you saw someone you didnt like.

It is propaganda because it presents one side of the story and is edited to suggest guilt without proof. In no way does it seek a balanced look at the situation. It simply presents unsubstantiated claims as fact and shows NO crime in progress.

Let me put it this way: This video is not even enough to get an arrest, much less an indictment or conviction. It is proof of NOTHING.

Again, you see it as proof of something because you WANT it to be true. You are applying faith here, not objective reasoning.

 

[Rogue]

Hey, look. The same damn thing happened to me! When I showed up to vote, I was told that I wasn't on their roster because I had moved about two miles away, putting me in a different district. I showed up there, thinking that both my wife and I had been transferred to the new precinct, but NO, we hadn't. My wife was upset because she wasn't listed anywhere and she had just re-registered when she updated her driver's license a few months ago. She just assumed they were throwing out her vote because she was Puerto Rican and a registered Democrat. They made her fill out a provisional ballot and everything! Hell, I had to do the same thing. The lines were very long to vote, further making it difficult to case my vote for my candidate. Then, on Friday I got a call telling me that I had to submit proof of my change of address and residence or my vote would not count! I have to provide a copy of a utility bill or something with my name on it by COB today or my provisional ballot is tossed. We both left feeling discriminated against, that's for sure! I wish cameras were at my polling place.

--------------------

See how that all sounds? Well, first off, my wife ended up being registered. They listed her legal last name backwards. Legally, it's Maldonado-Franzen, however, they listed her as Franzen-Maldonado, which was only discovered when they looked up my name (Franzen). Second, I wasn't listed at all, so I had to fill out a provisional ballot despite having been previously registered. They called me on Friday and asked that I submit proof of residence (utility bill, etc.) at my new address by today in order to count my vote. Needless to say, we both voted Republican here in the state of Kansas (damn near pointless to vote here anyway). Keeping in mind that my wife is a registered Democrat and a minority, it's easy to suck people into thinking that there was some kind of discrimination or other nefarious deeds going on, however, there wasn't unless you want to see it that way. Hell, I felt discriminated against due to the length of time I had to wait in line, because I'm one of those white guys who likes to just get things done an over with and waiting in a long line is against my principles. I think I'll sue! Where's Michael Moore? Where's Jesse Jackson at?

 

[imhotepmp]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur
Damn...that is complete BULLSH*T!!!

:| :| :| :|

What was? I see nothing in that tape but unsubstantiated claims.

If they can use hidden cameras to catch everything from car thieves to corrupt politicians, they can use them to catch REAL footage of REAL intimidation.

Funny how no real acts were caught on tape. Why?

What is even funnier is that Moore did not add clips of Democrats in Florida ganging up on early voters inside voting areas and REALLY intimidating voters.

In fact, that is the only verifiable case of voter intimidation so far.

Perhaps the topic title is incorrect but the content of that video cries out voter disenfranchisement!

No it doesn't. I see two people forced to cast provisional ballots for reasons unknown. I see one or two claiming voting challengers were looking over their shoulders, and I see a bunch of others just talking sh!t.

The video cries out nothing but "inflammatory propaganda." Congrats on falling for it.

People saying they've lived in area for 20 years and their name isn't on the ballot? Two of the Republican challengers hanging around outside in an apparent attempt to dissuade people from voting and finally leave when they see the video camera? Hmm....

We see NOTHING of the sort. We see two people outside. We see them do nothing but avoid the camera.

We hear people say they have lived in the same place for 20 years, and we hear them say they are registered, but no proof is offered and no "facts" checked.

Again, this is nothing but unsubstantiated claims. There is NOTHING on the tape that shows anything remotely criminal if you have the objectivity to look past the obvious attempt to make people think something is going on.

funny how conspiracy theories are only brought out at the persons convenience. You easily question the integrity of the voters, but yet you dont question the integrity of the challengers. If this were an isolated
incident then I think that it would be more likely be questionable, but the fact is that its NOT. This has been happening all over the country, but this is one of the few times anything was caught on tape. And yes some may say this is an isolated incident, but the fact is its not. Just give it some more time for more evidence to come out.

What was caught on tape???

Some people claiming they weren't on the lists was all I saw. I also saw people claiming intimidation, but I saw NO intimidation. I also saw no proof that the people making claims of being off the list had, in fact, registered. The burden of proof lies on those claiming wrong doing here. I question the claims because to question otherwise would be to demand someone prove a negative.

One person is accusing another of a crime. In this country, one is considered innocent until PROVED guilty. There is NO proof in this video. You simply believe it because you WANT to believe it. You WANT it to be true.

The video cries out nothing but "inflammatory propaganda." Congrats on falling for it.

Why is it propaganda? Because its has jesse jackson and michael moore in it? The minute any repub see any of those two people their eyes glaze over and all logic leaves their senses. It was a mistake imho to put those two individuals in the video for that exact reason, but it is a mistake to dismiss the implications of the video simply because you saw someone you didnt like.

It is propaganda because it presents one side of the story and is edited to suggest guilt without proof. In no way does it seek a balanced look at the situation. It simply presents unsubstantiated claims as fact and shows NO crime in progress.

Let me put it this way: This video is not even enough to get an arrest, much less an indictment or conviction. It is proof of NOTHING.

Again, you see it as proof of something because you WANT it to be true. You are applying faith here, not objective reasoning.

If this were an isolated incident then I would agree with you. However I think you should look at this video in the light of other links I posted in the original post. There has been a pattern of this happening throughtout the country, and this is just a little piece of the puzzle.


Why would I want something like this to be true? Yes I want thousands of minorities to be disenfranchised so our savior bush can be re-elected.

As much as you think I want this to be true, I think you want it to be NOT true, so you see what you want to see.

Imouthes

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur
Damn...that is complete BULLSH*T!!!

:| :| :| :|

What was? I see nothing in that tape but unsubstantiated claims.

If they can use hidden cameras to catch everything from car thieves to corrupt politicians, they can use them to catch REAL footage of REAL intimidation.

Funny how no real acts were caught on tape. Why?

What is even funnier is that Moore did not add clips of Democrats in Florida ganging up on early voters inside voting areas and REALLY intimidating voters.

In fact, that is the only verifiable case of voter intimidation so far.

Perhaps the topic title is incorrect but the content of that video cries out voter disenfranchisement!

No it doesn't. I see two people forced to cast provisional ballots for reasons unknown. I see one or two claiming voting challengers were looking over their shoulders, and I see a bunch of others just talking sh!t.

The video cries out nothing but "inflammatory propaganda." Congrats on falling for it.

People saying they've lived in area for 20 years and their name isn't on the ballot? Two of the Republican challengers hanging around outside in an apparent attempt to dissuade people from voting and finally leave when they see the video camera? Hmm....

We see NOTHING of the sort. We see two people outside. We see them do nothing but avoid the camera.

We hear people say they have lived in the same place for 20 years, and we hear them say they are registered, but no proof is offered and no "facts" checked.

Again, this is nothing but unsubstantiated claims. There is NOTHING on the tape that shows anything remotely criminal if you have the objectivity to look past the obvious attempt to make people think something is going on.

funny how conspiracy theories are only brought out at the persons convenience. You easily question the integrity of the voters, but yet you dont question the integrity of the challengers. If this were an isolated
incident then I think that it would be more likely be questionable, but the fact is that its NOT. This has been happening all over the country, but this is one of the few times anything was caught on tape. And yes some may say this is an isolated incident, but the fact is its not. Just give it some more time for more evidence to come out.

What was caught on tape???

Some people claiming they weren't on the lists was all I saw. I also saw people claiming intimidation, but I saw NO intimidation. I also saw no proof that the people making claims of being off the list had, in fact, registered. The burden of proof lies on those claiming wrong doing here. I question the claims because to question otherwise would be to demand someone prove a negative.

One person is accusing another of a crime. In this country, one is considered innocent until PROVED guilty. There is NO proof in this video. You simply believe it because you WANT to believe it. You WANT it to be true.

The video cries out nothing but "inflammatory propaganda." Congrats on falling for it.

Why is it propaganda? Because its has jesse jackson and michael moore in it? The minute any repub see any of those two people their eyes glaze over and all logic leaves their senses. It was a mistake imho to put those two individuals in the video for that exact reason, but it is a mistake to dismiss the implications of the video simply because you saw someone you didnt like.

It is propaganda because it presents one side of the story and is edited to suggest guilt without proof. In no way does it seek a balanced look at the situation. It simply presents unsubstantiated claims as fact and shows NO crime in progress.

Let me put it this way: This video is not even enough to get an arrest, much less an indictment or conviction. It is proof of NOTHING.

Again, you see it as proof of something because you WANT it to be true. You are applying faith here, not objective reasoning.

If this were an isolated incident then I would agree with you. However I think you should look at this video in the light of other links I posted in the original post. There has been a pattern of this happening throughtout the country, and this is just a little piece of the puzzle.


Why would I want something like this to be true? Yes I want thousands of minorities to be disenfranchised so our savior bush can be re-elected.

As much as you think I want this to be true, I think you want it to be NOT true, so you see what you want to see.

Imouthes

The difference between you and I is I ask for objective proof before passing judgement, or even forming an opinion. You do not.

Why do you want it to be true? Because it gives you and your ideology victim status.

At any rate, to believe that video is to throw away all objectivity and run solely on faith.

If there were a pattern of intimidation (outside of the Democrats intimidating early voters in FL) there would be proof. The only proof of intimidation that I have seen was in FL during early voting where even election officials admitted a problem.

 

[conjur]

Wow (re:that letter) http://lawgeek.typepad.com/law...0/sample_rightwin.html

 

[imhotepmp]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur
Damn...that is complete BULLSH*T!!!

:| :| :| :|

What was? I see nothing in that tape but unsubstantiated claims.

If they can use hidden cameras to catch everything from car thieves to corrupt politicians, they can use them to catch REAL footage of REAL intimidation.

Funny how no real acts were caught on tape. Why?

What is even funnier is that Moore did not add clips of Democrats in Florida ganging up on early voters inside voting areas and REALLY intimidating voters.

In fact, that is the only verifiable case of voter intimidation so far.

Perhaps the topic title is incorrect but the content of that video cries out voter disenfranchisement!

No it doesn't. I see two people forced to cast provisional ballots for reasons unknown. I see one or two claiming voting challengers were looking over their shoulders, and I see a bunch of others just talking sh!t.

The video cries out nothing but "inflammatory propaganda." Congrats on falling for it.

People saying they've lived in area for 20 years and their name isn't on the ballot? Two of the Republican challengers hanging around outside in an apparent attempt to dissuade people from voting and finally leave when they see the video camera? Hmm....

We see NOTHING of the sort. We see two people outside. We see them do nothing but avoid the camera.

We hear people say they have lived in the same place for 20 years, and we hear them say they are registered, but no proof is offered and no "facts" checked.

Again, this is nothing but unsubstantiated claims. There is NOTHING on the tape that shows anything remotely criminal if you have the objectivity to look past the obvious attempt to make people think something is going on.

funny how conspiracy theories are only brought out at the persons convenience. You easily question the integrity of the voters, but yet you dont question the integrity of the challengers. If this were an isolated
incident then I think that it would be more likely be questionable, but the fact is that its NOT. This has been happening all over the country, but this is one of the few times anything was caught on tape. And yes some may say this is an isolated incident, but the fact is its not. Just give it some more time for more evidence to come out.

What was caught on tape???

Some people claiming they weren't on the lists was all I saw. I also saw people claiming intimidation, but I saw NO intimidation. I also saw no proof that the people making claims of being off the list had, in fact, registered. The burden of proof lies on those claiming wrong doing here. I question the claims because to question otherwise would be to demand someone prove a negative.

One person is accusing another of a crime. In this country, one is considered innocent until PROVED guilty. There is NO proof in this video. You simply believe it because you WANT to believe it. You WANT it to be true.

The video cries out nothing but "inflammatory propaganda." Congrats on falling for it.

Why is it propaganda? Because its has jesse jackson and michael moore in it? The minute any repub see any of those two people their eyes glaze over and all logic leaves their senses. It was a mistake imho to put those two individuals in the video for that exact reason, but it is a mistake to dismiss the implications of the video simply because you saw someone you didnt like.

It is propaganda because it presents one side of the story and is edited to suggest guilt without proof. In no way does it seek a balanced look at the situation. It simply presents unsubstantiated claims as fact and shows NO crime in progress.

Let me put it this way: This video is not even enough to get an arrest, much less an indictment or conviction. It is proof of NOTHING.

Again, you see it as proof of something because you WANT it to be true. You are applying faith here, not objective reasoning.

If this were an isolated incident then I would agree with you. However I think you should look at this video in the light of other links I posted in the original post. There has been a pattern of this happening throughtout the country, and this is just a little piece of the puzzle.


Why would I want something like this to be true? Yes I want thousands of minorities to be disenfranchised so our savior bush can be re-elected.

As much as you think I want this to be true, I think you want it to be NOT true, so you see what you want to see.

Imouthes

The difference between you and I is I ask for objective proof before passing judgement, or even forming an opinion. You do not.

Why do you want it to be true? Because it gives you and your ideology victim status.

At any rate, to believe that video is to throw away all objectivity and run solely on faith.

If there were a pattern of intimidation (outside of the Democrats intimidating early voters in FL) there would be proof. The only proof of intimidation that I have seen was in FL during early voting where even election officials admitted a problem.

What makes you so sure that there would be proof if it happened? You think there always proof for all the underhanded things that go in politics. I think thats pretty silly. The whole point is to get little bits and pieces and see the big picture, rather than saying if I dont see direct evidence right here right now then theres absolutely no possiblity that this true. You make assumptions and decisions everyday without knowing every piece of truth. In these type of things it always very hard to find and produce considering the people who are committing these acts will try their very best to stop you. So what you usually have are little snippits and the idea is to make an objective and rational opinion/decision based on these snippits.

Yes, the video is not black and white, but what I see, plus what I read and hear makes me think this is whats going on the video. You may not agree with me, but I would argue with you that I have NOT lost my objectivity and you are the one who refuses to see the truth. Its stupid, naive, and ignorant to trust people in power. By questioning we can only try to keep them honest. Power corrupts and that what history has taught me. You believe what you want to believe, and I believe what I want.

And what exactly is my ideology? Let me guess you label me as a liberal right? Only small minds need labels... Where exactly is the partisanship in this post? I personally voted for neither kerry nor bush, so my party affiliation has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Did you even bother to read some of the links I posted? What business do poltical parties have questioning peoples voting status? By allowing this your begging for people to take advantage of the system.

Imouthes

 

[piasabird]

I know some states like Missouri have laws about purging voters from their lists if they miss 2 elections of do not vote for a period of time. Personally I think a person should not be purged unless a valid attempt to contact them has been made. We could just as easily go by a person's Driver's License. We could also have a federal voters list. In this way if you vote in one location you can no longer vote in another state. For instance, if I owned land in two states, I could attempt to register in two states, or just in 2 different counties in the same state or in different precincts. I doubt if there is any attempt to stop this. I doubt if one precinct has any way to even check on a lot of these people from other precinct. That being said with computers these days the polling places could quite easily come up with a list of everyone in their precinct. You would be surprised how easily a person can be tracked.

 

[EXman]

thanks I agree with the above the first video the only one I am gonna waste my time with showed nerdy guys that couldn't intimidate a grandmother much less a giant black man twice their size!! 😀

As far as not being on a list mistakes are made but maybe they were at the wrong place since some of them were new anyhow. Not to mention that biased peice of crap could have had people embelishing so they could get on camera. People want to be famous!

sour grapes!

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: imhotepmp

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: conjur
Damn...that is complete BULLSH*T!!!

:| :| :| :|

What was? I see nothing in that tape but unsubstantiated claims.

If they can use hidden cameras to catch everything from car thieves to corrupt politicians, they can use them to catch REAL footage of REAL intimidation.

Funny how no real acts were caught on tape. Why?

What is even funnier is that Moore did not add clips of Democrats in Florida ganging up on early voters inside voting areas and REALLY intimidating voters.

In fact, that is the only verifiable case of voter intimidation so far.

Perhaps the topic title is incorrect but the content of that video cries out voter disenfranchisement!

No it doesn't. I see two people forced to cast provisional ballots for reasons unknown. I see one or two claiming voting challengers were looking over their shoulders, and I see a bunch of others just talking sh!t.

The video cries out nothing but "inflammatory propaganda." Congrats on falling for it.

People saying they've lived in area for 20 years and their name isn't on the ballot? Two of the Republican challengers hanging around outside in an apparent attempt to dissuade people from voting and finally leave when they see the video camera? Hmm....

We see NOTHING of the sort. We see two people outside. We see them do nothing but avoid the camera.

We hear people say they have lived in the same place for 20 years, and we hear them say they are registered, but no proof is offered and no "facts" checked.

Again, this is nothing but unsubstantiated claims. There is NOTHING on the tape that shows anything remotely criminal if you have the objectivity to look past the obvious attempt to make people think something is going on.

funny how conspiracy theories are only brought out at the persons convenience. You easily question the integrity of the voters, but yet you dont question the integrity of the challengers. If this were an isolated
incident then I think that it would be more likely be questionable, but the fact is that its NOT. This has been happening all over the country, but this is one of the few times anything was caught on tape. And yes some may say this is an isolated incident, but the fact is its not. Just give it some more time for more evidence to come out.

What was caught on tape???

Some people claiming they weren't on the lists was all I saw. I also saw people claiming intimidation, but I saw NO intimidation. I also saw no proof that the people making claims of being off the list had, in fact, registered. The burden of proof lies on those claiming wrong doing here. I question the claims because to question otherwise would be to demand someone prove a negative.

One person is accusing another of a crime. In this country, one is considered innocent until PROVED guilty. There is NO proof in this video. You simply believe it because you WANT to believe it. You WANT it to be true.

The video cries out nothing but "inflammatory propaganda." Congrats on falling for it.

Why is it propaganda? Because its has jesse jackson and michael moore in it? The minute any repub see any of those two people their eyes glaze over and all logic leaves their senses. It was a mistake imho to put those two individuals in the video for that exact reason, but it is a mistake to dismiss the implications of the video simply because you saw someone you didnt like.

It is propaganda because it presents one side of the story and is edited to suggest guilt without proof. In no way does it seek a balanced look at the situation. It simply presents unsubstantiated claims as fact and shows NO crime in progress.

Let me put it this way: This video is not even enough to get an arrest, much less an indictment or conviction. It is proof of NOTHING.

Again, you see it as proof of something because you WANT it to be true. You are applying faith here, not objective reasoning.

If this were an isolated incident then I would agree with you. However I think you should look at this video in the light of other links I posted in the original post. There has been a pattern of this happening throughtout the country, and this is just a little piece of the puzzle.


Why would I want something like this to be true? Yes I want thousands of minorities to be disenfranchised so our savior bush can be re-elected.

As much as you think I want this to be true, I think you want it to be NOT true, so you see what you want to see.

Imouthes

The difference between you and I is I ask for objective proof before passing judgement, or even forming an opinion. You do not.

Why do you want it to be true? Because it gives you and your ideology victim status.

At any rate, to believe that video is to throw away all objectivity and run solely on faith.

If there were a pattern of intimidation (outside of the Democrats intimidating early voters in FL) there would be proof. The only proof of intimidation that I have seen was in FL during early voting where even election officials admitted a problem.

What makes you so sure that there would be proof if it happened? You think there always proof for all the underhanded things that go in politics. I think thats pretty silly. The whole point is to get little bits and pieces and see the big picture, rather than saying if I dont see direct evidence right here right now then theres absolutely no possiblity that this true. You make assumptions and decisions everyday without knowing every piece of truth. In these type of things it always very hard to find and produce considering the people who are committing these acts will try their very best to stop you. So what you usually have are little snippits and the idea is to make an objective and rational opinion/decision based on these snippits.

Yes, the video is not black and white, but what I see, plus what I read and hear makes me think this is whats going on the video. You may not agree with me, but I would argue with you that I have NOT lost my objectivity and you are the one who refuses to see the truth. Its stupid, naive, and ignorant to trust people in power. By questioning we can only try to keep them honest. Power corrupts and that what history has taught me. You believe what you want to believe, and I believe what I want.

And what exactly is my ideology? Let me guess you label me as a liberal right? Only small minds need labels... Where exactly is the partisanship in this post? I personally voted for neither kerry nor bush, so my party affiliation has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Did you even bother to read some of the links I posted? What business do poltical parties have questioning peoples voting status? By allowing this your begging for people to take advantage of the system.

Imouthes

Fact: There is no proof.

All your bellyaching sounds an awful lot like a religionist trying to convince an atheist that there is a god, despite a glaring lack of proof.

Bring proof, and I will believe. Have no proof, and I will assume innocence. People are being accused of crimes here.

It really is that simple.