Volunteering, minimum wages, and capitalism

[Russ]

SammySon,

Restaurants that pay below minimum wage based on the expectation that gratuities will compensate for the difference are about ten times more likely to be audited by the state labor department.

Personally, I think the system stinks, which is why I always paid above minimum wage whether my people were in a tipped position or not. I also never had any trouble stealing the good ones from my competitors.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Zenmervolt]

<<Not sure where you live, but nobody I know of has paid ONLY minimum wage for quite some time. The market for good help is too competitive.>>

Russ has, as usual, made an excellent point. Last summer I worked 40 hours a week for $7.00 an hour. My job duties? Taking apart the computers in my HS and blowing out the dust with compressed air, and setting up some new G4's (bleh) and iMacs (double bleh) on the school's network. This is hardly skilled labor, and anyone with a McDonalds job could have done what I did. So why was I paid $7.00 per hour and not $5.15? Simple, almost no-one actually works for minimum wage, even my friends at McDonalds made at least $6.50 per hour. Government mandated minimum wage laws merely inhibit capitalism, which does not help anyone in the end. It seems to me that the minimum wage laws are a case of &quot;the means justify the end&quot;, ie. because those laws make people &quot;feel good&quot;, the negative net effect on the economic system is ignored. IMO, &quot;the means justify the end&quot; is more wrong than &quot;the end justifys the means&quot;.

Zenmervolt

 

[Xede]

Russ

<< &quot;but that volunteers working for a for-profit organization are illegal...

&quot;Wrong. Not sure where you got that crap, but there is nothing illegal in the use of volunteers in and of itself. It only becomes illegal if working hours or activities are specifically regulated by the company utilizing their services. &quot; >>



Just wanted to clarify--I wasn't saying that's how things WERE, just that that's how it seemed to me it should be if minimum wage laws were applied literally without making a distinction between working for $.01/hr and $0.00/hr. Thanks for clearing that up some.

 

I have not made minimum wage since I was 15.
But not having a minimum wage would hurt the employee more then capatalism as a whole.
I think its a better idea to the minimums then to not.
Its alot easier for a business to pay $2 an hour for a mexican immigrant.

 

[Zenmervolt]

<<Its alot easier for a business to pay $2 an hour for a mexican immigrant.>>

True, but the guy you can hire for $2.00 per hour will not put out the same quality of work as they guy who demands $7.00 per hour. Also, if the person agrees to work for that amount, it is not the government's duty to protect him from himself. Any company paying employees $2.00 per hour would go under quickly because the quality of the product would be sacrificed, and once those people working for $2.00/hr learn about others doing the same work for $7.00/hr they will start demanding more pay on their own. People should be allowed to negotiate their own wages, we don't need big brother stepping in to protect us from ourselves.

Zenmervolt

 

[eakers]

look at underdeveloped countries where some of the &quot;finest&quot; things are made
there are no minimum wage laws there.... and look what there is sweatshops.

i know that there are people out there, many just like you that would not pay even their finest worker a dime more than minimum

also minimum wage sets a standard at which other rates of pay can be fairly judged.

interesting fact: IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE WORKING 40 HOURS A WEEK AT MINIUM WAGE TO SUPPORT YOURSELF.

go try it, bust your ass for 6.95 (cdn) an hour then try to make your rent, food, utilities etc. and btw thats high, highest in canada cept for BC.

*kat. <-- doesnt know whats wrong with you people.

 

[Zenmervolt]

<<IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE WORKING 40 HOURS A WEEK AT MINIUM WAGE TO SUPPORT YOURSELF.>>

THEN GET ANOTHER JOB THAT PAYS BETTER. Sorry, when someone shouts at me I shout back. Besides, the &quot;sweatshop&quot; laws are not connected in any way to the minimum wage laws. OSHA prevents sweatshop conditions, minimum wage can be eliminated and sweatshops will remain illegal. As for minimum wage setting a standard, hell no. If I'm getting a job, I compare pay to that of other people in the same field with similar education and experience. I'm not going to compare the starting salary of an IT professional to minimum wage because it would be an irrelevant comparison. I mean, come on, comparing the pay of a salaried college graduate to the pay of a high school drop-out? I have no intention of trying to live on minimum wage, that is why I busted my butt in HS and why I'm going to get a degree in IS and Management from the University of Pittsburgh. If someone wants a better life, let him work for it, it is not the job of the government to take care of sociey's unproductive members.

Zenmervolt <-- Believes in social darwinism.

 

[Philosopher]

Sure, in times of economic prosperity there is no need for minimum wage laws! But when things take a downward turn, watch out or the only jobs that many people will be able to find will have crap for pay! The minumum wage is here to protect us. If the economy tanks, I don't want to be stuck with a job that pays 2$ an hour!



<< The minimum wage laws, IMO, stifle motivation. Why should I work harder in school, they have to pay me minimum wage no matter what. The motivation behind it may be good (eg how you see it) but the end result isn't what was intended. >>

- Viper GTS

Slaves are motivated to try and gain freedom. History has shown us that large corporations will take advantage of its workers if possible. The minimum wage is here to protect us. I'm glad that most of you don't need its protection right now. But you may need it in the future!

 

[eakers]

<< that is why I busted my butt in HS and why I'm going to get a degree in IS and Management from the University of Pittsburgh. If someone wants a better life, let him work for it, it is not the job of the government to take care of sociey's unproductive members. >>



you think that the people who pour your coffee, build homes, build cars, are unproductive?

there are people who probley work alot harder for their money then you do but get paid a lot less.

some of the wealthiest people i know havent had a hard day of manual labor in their lives.

its a lot harder to get a well paying job if you dont have an education.

and people think the same way YOU do, if they can make a lot of money by paying their employees $2 an hour then they will.

capitalism is the worst thing ever.

*kat. <-- doesnt only think of herself.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Hey dude and dudettes, law are rules not to be broken, but most laws leave discretion, so it all depends! The only laws that I know about that require mandatory sentencing are drug laws. Of course, I ain't no lawyer so my 2 cents are not worth much.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

doesnt only think of herself.

You must feel real proud of yourself. Please, spare us the bleeding heart BS.

some of the wealthiest people i know havent had a hard day of manual labor in their lives.

Power to them, they or their family earned that right.

its a lot harder to get a well paying job if you dont have an education.

Ever heard of Community College?

 

[Zenmervolt]

<<you think that the people who pour your coffee, build homes, build cars, are unproductive?>>

I make and pour my own coffee, thank you. I know several carpenters and builders (friends' parents) who make more than my father (a manager), and several times minimum wage. Construction pays very well where I live, just because the guy wears blue jeans to his job doesn't mean that he doesn't earn a lot of money. Two of my uncles build cars for a living and they support themselves quite nicely, their families' lifestyles are the same as my family's. Contrary to popular belief, manual labor is well compensated. You said that it is harder to get a good paying job without an education. That is completely true. However, if a person does not have an education that is his fault and no-one else's. With all the financial aid available there is no reason that a student who does well in HS cannot go to college. If they don't do well in HS, tough, they had an opportunity and blew it. As for the suggestion that if I owned a business I would exploit my employees, I am insulted almost to the point of rage. I would pay my employees at least every cent they were worth, and I would only hire employees who were worth a great deal because the more money an employee deserves the better that employee is. There is no point in working a person for less than they are worth, they will quickly find someone who recognises their value and they will be hired away. The best solution is to pay each person slightly more than they are worth to prevent them from being lured away by the competition.

Zenmervolt <--Isn't evil just because he believes people should work hard if they want to improve themselves.

EDIT: And what would you have us replace Capitalism with? Socialism? HA!

 

[Thanatopsis]

<< there are people who probley work alot harder for their money then you do but get paid a lot less. >>


Many people get paid what they are paid because of supply and demand. Take doctors for instance - would you want a career McDonald's worker, making 7.00 an hour to perform heart surgery? Sure, the doctor probably works in a nicer environment, but that does not mean he works less. Civil Engineers are another example. I know for certain that Civil Engineers don't have to cook over a hot stove and usually work in nice offices or out surveying somewhere (I should know, my dad is one). You should argue that because the engineer's work is not physically harder, he should get paid the same. However, I am sure that 99% of engineers or doctors would be capable of working at McDonald's, but I would not trust a MickeyD employee to build the next bridge I drive on.

 

[eakers]

some people dont hve the opportunities to better themselves because of their life situations.

*kat. <-- isnt going to fight about this anymore because she thinks that people should take care of each other instead of just themeselves.

 

[Zenmervolt]

<<isnt going to fight about this anymore because she thinks that people should take care of each other instead of just themeselves.>>

Cool, you can take care of me by sending me a cheque.

Zenmervolt <-- Displaying the attitude that become prevalent once people start giving handouts.

 

[Jmman]

Uhh, capitalism is the worst thing ever? If you don't like it, why don't you move to China and see how you like it. Our system works great, even though we have little hiccups now and then. Why do you think people are hiding in boats, jumping over fences, etc, just to get here. Simply because there is more opportunity here than anywhere else. And what is this thing about minimum wage? Heck, here in Denver they start out at McD's at $8 an hour with extras on top of that......


I just wanted to add something else about minimum wages. The market should determine the wage, not big government. Think about the consequences of significantly raising it to $10 or something. If everyone at Mcd's was making $10, how much would we end up paying to eat there? That .99 big mac would be $3. Prices across many industries would be instantly increased. Would you really be any better off than you are now? Your cost of living would raise in direct proportion to the increase in minimum wage. Minimum wage increases aren't meant to protect anybody; they are simply a political tool to make you feel good......

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Several people have expressed opinions that reek of the laise-faire economics that didn't work 100 years ago and won't work today.

 

[xodarap]

Russ and Zenmervolt

I'm not sure where you get your theories about the nature of prosperity in this country but I obviously grew up on the other side of the track. I've lived in the Rio Grande valley home of the tortilla wage. Were people will search and beg! for minimum wage. Lowering it would directly shift the quality of life. I sure there are places in the country where the minimum wage is unnecessary but their are at least as many where it is. Perhaps this simply shows the need to delegate minimum wage limits to the local level, of course I would never trust the officials in my old home town.

As for OSHA they simply regulate working conditions they don't regulate conditions at home. They can't stop economic slavery.

As for the volunteer issue, its OK by me as long as the company's don't use volunteer credit to incite workers. Remember the government to a certain extent has ways to pay back service work. Using well intended school programs to further economic gains should be illegal.

[Just to jab at the mods] No I don't see the difference between Anandtech and AOL, at least not in the fact Anandtech doesn't charge. The Internet is a business we are customers don't let anyone tell you differently! If they can convince you of that your wallet will fallow.

 

[Scrapster]

people should take care of each other instead of just themeselves.

I'm not going to wait around for someone to take care of me.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Well I actually made minimum wage or just above it for 5 years at a grocery store and I don't think we need it. Our store was also union so all of us workers were set. Maybe 1 in 5 of us actually worked the rest of us goofed off all day and just collected our checks. Aren't unions great? As for not being able to live on minimum wage that is BS. You may not be able to live well on it but I did ok and I was only working 15 hours a week. I lived with 2 other people and my share of the rent/uts came to $200 a month and I made a little over $300 a month so I had enough for food and gas and I even had enough to pay my tuition. The only thing my parents paid for was my health insurance. Its called being real cheap people.

 

[Whisper]

Exactly...forcing someone to take care of another person just defeats the entire purpose of the help in the first place. The helped person will come to rely on the aid, and the helper will no longer do it out of the goodness of their heart, but instead because they're being forced to. As soon as you're forced into something, it loses its appeal almost immediately.

And I agree that environment can affect your ability to receive a decent education, etc. Affect...but not completely prohibit. Some people may have to work harder for it, but that's just the way things work out. It's not anyone's fault that some people are born rich and some poor; life is what you make of it, not what others make of it for you.

 

[yakko]

<< IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE WORKING 40 HOURS A WEEK AT MINIUM WAGE TO SUPPORT YOURSELF >>


Been there, done that. It is quite possible to survive. You have to live within your means and not expect everything.


<< capitalism is the worst thing ever >>


The one thing that has advanced technology on all fronts more than anything else is the worst thing ever? Pull your head out of your ass and go back to school and try to learn something this time around.


<< some people dont hve the opportunities to better themselves because of their life situations. >>


Someone is always going to have it better than someone else. Life is not perfect and it never will be. Grow up and deal with it.