VMWare ESX server (Intel or AMD)

[Ferzerp]

Let's do a quick analysis. Let's say I want 18 TB of usable space using 3 TB drives. For a RAID 10 setup, that's 12 drives and at $150 each, that's $1800. For a RAID 5 setup, that's 7 drives for a total of $1050. You can easily find decent RAID cards for under $750 (the price difference). Even if you want RAID 6, you still can find a decent LSI or Intel RAID card for well under $600.

And that's why those cards exist, but you're specifically jacked up the volumes beyond what any consumer is likely to be dealing with just to validate your claim when your claim was made in regards to much smaller volumes. You're moving the goalposts to try salvage your argument after how silly it is has been pointed out.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

And that's why those cards exist, but you're specifically jacked up the volumes beyond what any consumer is likely to be dealing with just to validate your claim when your claim was made in regards to much smaller volumes.

Really? Here was my statement:

RAID0 is way too risky (no fault tolerance) and RAID1 means you lose 50% of your total capacity.

Where did I mention volume size? I made no such statement.

You're moving the goalposts to try salvage your argument after how silly it is has been pointed out.

Why the hostility? Here was your statement:

Losing 50% of your total capacity doesn't mean jack when it is cheaper to buy the capacity back up than it is to buy a controller that can handle parity decently (and you'll get all the benefits of 1+0 as well).

You did not qualify it in any way, shape, or form. I, however, did -- I said I knew I was not a typical consumer and agreed that it would be cheaper on smaller arrays. The bottom line is that you made a blanket statement above. You need to qualify your statements. There is a reason why people use parity (as you later pointed out). I fall into that category and the OP is probably not a standard consumer given the stated intention of his server. Then you made this statement:

Parity RAID makes very, very little sense for consumer setups unless it truly is archive with no performance needs (a situation which you claimed you had, but obviously didn't because it didn't meet your needs)

Which I agreed with, but pointed out that the OP is hardly a "consumer." Not many consumers run ESX at home.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

You're seriously suggesting a $450 raid card for a media streaming HOME SERVER? Who cares about redundancy for Blu-ray rips?

Please post where I said "You should buy this card." I did no such thing. What I did do, however, was say: "Here is what I bought and it seems to be a good card. If you want a RAID controller, consider it as an option." In post #6, I even outline my config and specifically state he could eliminate that array controller or go with a cheaper option, even contemplating the Intel SCU on that board. If he goes that route, he definitely needs to ensure the SCU is on VMWare's HCL though. Here is what I said about the average consumer buying a RAID card for an HTPC:

I wouldn't advise Joe Public to spend $500+ on a RAID card for his HTPC because there are far more sensible and cheaper solutions available to him.

Also, did you read the OP? Let me quote his needs:

Hello all, I'm wanting rid of a bunch of my computers and focus on putting together a speedy ESX server to run several virtual machines at the same time for various duties. Some of these include learning new OS's / applications, LAMP server, torrent server, media streaming server, Minecraft server, etc).

What I'm concerned about is which platform offers a better value for an ESX environment. My main concern is I/O speeds, I want the I/O speed to be as fast as possible (planning on using a SSD for the boot drive along with a some mirrored drives for storage) as traditionally this where virtual machines are painfully slow.

Now then, can you or Ferzerp be so kind as to provide me with a list of onboard RAID chips in consumer boards that are officially listed on VMWare's HCL? I'm asking this question seriously (not trying to be a wise guy), because if some exist that I'm unaware of, I'll consider those as options when I rebuild my old server because I definitely intend to save some money on it.

 

[mvbighead]

Gotta go with Indy on this one. RAID controllers are finicky SOBs in VMWare. Unless you LSI or similar, you're likely to be in for a very bad time. I ended up picking up a used LSI 4 port controller on the forums some time back when those were going for $200ish new. I think I gave about 120. Hooked up 4 - 500GB drives in RAID 5 (not great for performance I know, but they get me what I need in terms of storage space (minimal).

If you're running this as a server, and don't have mega storage needs, I'd find a nice small LSI controller and grab 4 drives that suit the size you need. Run them in RAID 10 if possible, and you should have a pretty solid platform with space to build multiple VMs.

On the topic of AMD vs. Intel, one reason not to go with AMD is if you have any intentions of running XP or similar older OS's. There is a AMD vOptimization driver that is required to get any sort of performance to the VM, and even then, they're spotty at best. Granted, I have 2 AMD servers at work running mostly 2008 and higher OSs (some 2003) and those are fine, but XP can be a complete bear at times. For anything server related, I'll be sticking with Intel from here on out.

 

[Zstream]

On the topic of AMD vs. Intel, one reason not to go with AMD is if you have any intentions of running XP or similar older OS's. There is a AMD vOptimization driver that is required to get any sort of performance to the VM, and even then, they're spotty at best. Granted, I have 2 AMD servers at work running mostly 2008 and higher OSs (some 2003) and those are fine, but XP can be a complete bear at times. For anything server related, I'll be sticking with Intel from here on out.

I never had an issue with AMD or Intel for any OS. I've ran hundreds of VM's with no issue from either provider.

When it comes to the raid card, I would just buy a cheap Dell card for $50-60 bucks and call it a day.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I never had an issue with AMD or Intel for any OS. I've ran hundreds of VM's with no issue from either provider.

When it comes to the raid card, I would just buy a cheap Dell card for $50-60 bucks and call it a day.

Yeah, you can certainly go cheaper than I did. For my needs and based on the size of my array, RAID6 was the level I chose and you pay a premium for cards supporting that level. If you don't have the huge storage needs that I have, then yes, you can do a RAID10 array economically and with a far cheaper card. Again, just make sure that if you intend on running ESX/ESXi, the card must be on the HCL or you may have one heck of a frustrating experience. As mvbighead says above (and this is my experience too), VMWare is exceptionally picky with storage controllers.

In terms of CPU, I would've liked to go with an 8 core Xeon, but they were very expensive and I think the E5-2620 is a great CPU for the price even if it is only 2 Ghz. That's still going to be fast enough for just about anything especially if your application is heavily multi-threaded -- those cores are really handy.

 

[Zstream]

A Dell Perc 6i will run raid 6 with no problems at $50-80. The benchmarks can be found here: http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showthread.php/8394-8-x-2-0TB-PERC-6i-RAID-6-Larger-Storage

 

[IndyColtsFan]

A Dell Perc 6i will run raid 6 with no problems at $50-80. The benchmarks can be found here: http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showthread.php/8394-8-x-2-0TB-PERC-6i-RAID-6-Larger-Storage

Very cool -- thank you very much for that link. I may consider one for my old server. Do you have a link to where it can be had for $80? I'm seeing closer to $150, which is still a good price.

 

[Zstream]

Very cool -- thank you very much for that link. I may consider one for my old server. Do you have a link to where it can be had for $80? I'm seeing closer to $150, which is still a good price.

It goes up and down, I purchased mine for $65 from ebay a few weeks back.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=Dell+Perc+6i+&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

[Ferzerp]

Those are usually removals from servers. They're LSI megaraid if I remember correctly.

That route can make sense.

 

[Madpacket]

Great discussion guys and after some additional research over the weekend I am going to pursue ESX as my platform so I will defiantly want a RAID card that is on the HCL. Time to search eBay

One last thought, with the price the larger SSD's coming down with the introduction of TLC NAND do you think I could get away with RAID array using these cheaper drives?

I figure a lot of the performance issues that arise from parity overhead may not be as much of a factor if I stick with SSD's. It'll be more expensive sure but I don't need TONS of storage for experimenting, that's why I'm thinking SSD's instead.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It goes up and down, I purchased mine for $65 from ebay a few weeks back.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=Dell+Perc+6i+&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Thanks, I'll keep monitoring eBay and see if I can snag one for my other box. As Ferzerp mentioned, they're rebranded LSI cards.

 

[Zstream]

Thanks, I'll keep monitoring eBay and see if I can snag one for my other box. As Ferzerp mentioned, they're rebranded LSI cards.

Yep, they work well.

 

[mvbighead]

I never had an issue with AMD or Intel for any OS. I've ran hundreds of VM's with no issue from either provider.

When it comes to the raid card, I would just buy a cheap Dell card for $50-60 bucks and call it a day.

I just have one platform to go on, but with a fairly simple XP workstation with 2 cores and 2gb of ram, it was a dog without that driver. (And maybe I am thinking of HyperV and not ESX.) In any case, I recall a specific problem with AMD that I have yet to have a similar problem with Intel.